Modes Should credits not earned in open be accessible in open?

I would go a step further.

Materials earned in solo/pg for engineering upgrades should not be usable in open,
and modules engineered with materials earned in solo/pg should not work in open.

Actually, all modes except open should not be accessible except in open.

This post is bait.
This thread is double bait.
 
if tomorrow FDev announced that starting in Q4 Elite Dangerous would become an "OPEN-only" game

I recently reset my account but I like your question as I asked it to myself. With or without another reset, the answer is "elite\uninstall.exe".
 
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Yes. I'm convinced that the current arrangement of mode agnosticism ensures a maximum number of players in open, while minimizing the amount of griefing, player-killing, combat-logging, and overall jerkish behavior in the game.

In my experience there are four general types of players in the game:

  1. Players who need other players to be their content, and are willing to be the content of others in return. These players are usually fun to play with. They're usually interested in a fun and fair fight, and are gracious in victory or defeat. This means they usually go out of their way to ensure that anyone they attack is a willing participant, even when playing the villian, as opposed to attacking other players at random.
  2. Players who don't need other players to be their content, but are willing to be content of others anyway. These players are usually fun to play with. While they don't go out of their way to interact with others, they also won't shy away from it either. When it comes to PvP, while they generally don't initiate it, they usually consider it part of the challenge, and maybe a chance to test their skills against another player, and don't mind when they inevitably lose.
  3. Players who don't need other players to be their content, and are unwilling to be the content of others. These are the player who would much rather be playing a single-player game, or perhaps a co-op game with trusted friends. Unfortunately for them, the features of an MMO game are attractive enough that they're playing the game anyway. When given a choice, they'll choose a mode or server that is PvP free. If not given a choice, they'll sometimes try to combat log, rather than have a game session ruined by another player. It's generally better for everyone else for them to be given a choice of who to play with, because they're not fun to play with if they're being forced to do so.
  4. Players who need other players to be their content, but are unwilling to be the content of others in return. These are the players who are usually not fun to play with, because they act like jerks in the game. They will use any method, legitimate or not, to get their jollies off while evading the consequences of their actions. They attack newbies and those playing civilian roles in overpowered combat builds that they probably ground endlessly for, just to ensure that they can kill without being killed. When faced with a fair fight, or even the possibility of a fair fight, they'll combat log at the first opportunity. If they ever attack someone who looks like they might put up a fair fight, they'll ensure that they have an overwhelming numerical advantage before attacking, or bug out if they don't. And of course they'll often use exploits or hacks if they think they can get away with it.

In my experience, it's group #4 that cares, in any way, where everyone else is playing. The reason for this is simple. Group #1 is good enough at this game to kill them easily, even when at a disadvantage, so group #4 can't get their jollies off them. Group #2 is also no fun, because while they may not be as dangerous as group #1, they're frequently just as hard to kill, and it's hard to generate salt off of them. Only group #3 can give them their fix, but if they're in another mode, they're unavailable to generate salt for group #4. So they start insisting that group #3 be punished for their choice of modes.

Thankyou for a thoughtful response.

What you're saying makes sense to me too, and I really can't disagree with any of it.

Thanks everyone else for replying, even the ones that just made cynical or snide remarks, I appreciate that you made the effort to actually respond.

While I can hold my own in a fair fight I have also been on the receiving end of overwhelming firepower for absolutely no good in-game reason. While i acknowledge it is with the rules, it also pretty much destroys immersion and diminishes the quality of my game time (remembering i had no choice in the matter) simply because there is no in-game context. I have no problem duelling with pirates, or risking being murdered, which is why I play open exclusively. But I would also like to be able to cross paths with said pirate or murderer when they're going about their business trying to earn their credits and I just happen to be in my engineered up the wazoo killing machine rather than my trading ship, and perhaps exact a little revenge - which may only be a disabling of their ship rather than a kill, after all we civilized traders don't necessarily administer the death penalty for the theft of a paltry tonne or two of relatively low value cargo..... That seems to me like good gameplay for all involved.

But that gameplay goes out the window when a player uses open to do nothing more than wing up with other min-maxed killers in open... it's not the actual gameplay-free but within the TOS killing that I question, but the ability to make the substantial bank necessary to buy the hardware outside the open game then just bring it into open that I question. All I'm suggesting is that if you want to be a murderer in open, no problem, earn the rebuy/ammo/fuel money in open as well. It may be a step in the right direction towards a better C&P system, that's all.
 
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Thankyou for a thoughtful response.

What you're saying makes sense to me too, and I really can't disagree with any of it.

Thanks everyone else for replying, even the ones that just made cynical or snide remarks, I appreciate that you made the effort to actually respond.

While I can hold my own in a fair fight I have also been on the receiving end of overwhelming firepower for absolutely no good in-game reason. While i acknowledge it is with the rules, it also pretty much destroys immersion and diminishes the quality of my game time (remembering i had no choice in the matter) simply because there is no in-game context. I have no problem duelling with pirates, or risking being murdered, which is why I play open exclusively. But I would also like to be able to cross paths with said pirate or murderer when they're going about their business trying to earn their credits and I just happen to be in my engineered up the wazoo killing machine rather than my trading ship, and perhaps exact a little revenge - which may only be a disabling of their ship rather than a kill, after all we civilized traders don't necessarily administer the death penalty for the theft of a paltry tonne or two of relatively low value cargo..... That seems to me like good gameplay for all involved.

But that gameplay goes out the window when a player uses open to do nothing more than wing up with other min-maxed killers in open... it's not the actual gameplay-free but within the TOS killing that I question, but the ability to make the substantial bank necessary to buy the hardware outside the open game then just bring it into open that I question. All I'm suggesting is that if you want to be a murderer in open, no problem, earn the rebuy/ammo/fuel money in open as well. It may be a step in the right direction towards a better C&P system, that's all.


So someone who plays in Open, but also with friends in PG, or has times alone in solo gets utterly screwed over because others don't like that some who don't want to PVP but dominate PVP have the ability to recover outside of open. Which brings up questions I asked before, Should ships? Should commanders? Heck should Exploration Data? What is fair and what isn't? right now it is all tied together, and just look at the cluster that happened in the Power Play "discussion" Sandro tried to pull. And look at how many wanted BGS Open Only, because they feel it is unfair that others can affect the BGS from outside open, just like you don't like that some can recover and come back into Open.

All it is is locking content be it credits, ships, to benefit a few.
 
So someone who plays in Open, but also with friends in PG, or has times alone in solo gets utterly screwed over because others don't like that some who don't want to PVP but dominate PVP have the ability to recover outside of open. Which brings up questions I asked before, Should ships? Should commanders? Heck should Exploration Data? What is fair and what isn't? right now it is all tied together, and just look at the cluster that happened in the Power Play "discussion" Sandro tried to pull. And look at how many wanted BGS Open Only, because they feel it is unfair that others can affect the BGS from outside open, just like you don't like that some can recover and come back into Open.

All it is is locking content be it credits, ships, to benefit a few.

You have to 'recover' from open? ...and what's the benefit of playing with just your PG friends over playing with your PG friends and everyone else as well at the same time in open?

So how about an open only game then... you can play with all your friends, all the time, and enjoy all the benefits of everything that open has to offer.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
You have to 'recover' from open? ...and what's the benefit of playing with just your PG friends over playing with your PG friends and everyone else as well at the same time in open?

The benefit is simple - not having to play among players whose play-style conflicts with what one finds to be "fun".

So how about an open only game then... you can play with all your friends, all the time, and enjoy all the benefits of everything that open has to offer.

There are particular dis-benefits to playing in Open for players who don't find a particular optional play-style to be "fun".

Thankfully, Frontier would seem to be, from what one Dev has said, well aware that the majority of players don't get involved in PvP....

.... which would suggest that there's little possibility of the game being changed to be Open only.
 
You have to 'recover' from open? ...and what's the benefit of playing with just your PG friends over playing with your PG friends and everyone else as well at the same time in open?

So how about an open only game then... you can play with all your friends, all the time, and enjoy all the benefits of everything that open has to offer.


When I say "recover" from Open, I am talking about exactly what you are complaining that some who pvp supposedly do. "the ability to make the substantial bank necessary to buy the hardware outside the open game then just bring it into open."

Again you are wanting other people to play YOUR game, especially when you end your last comment with how about "open-only" which makes me think that was what this whole conversation was about to begin with just veiled as a complaint that people can use things gotten outside of Open in Open.
 
Someone is bored, or being malicious.

In my opinion, this would drive players to solo and private groups more. There is no limit, to the number of groups that could be made, so this ridiculous proposal would just result in a growth of such groups.

This is the irony of many of the ideas that "Open Only" proponents suggest. In many cases they would actually reduce numbers in Open.
 
Cmdr Kanonfoddar a question...

If someone loved playing Ironman mode and got upset that no one else was deleting their commander and starting over and that they felt it broke their emersion to the game, do you feel they would be justified in thinking the game should be changed to force others to their playstyle?
 
You have to 'recover' from open?

Yup, there is only so much moronic behaviour from random people anyone can take.
And as I've spent most of my working life, working with (and for) the public.... I most definitely don't need them constantly in my down time as well.

Occasionally can be fun, but not constantly.
 
Thankyou for a thoughtful response.

What you're saying makes sense to me too, and I really can't disagree with any of it.

Thanks everyone else for replying, even the ones that just made cynical or snide remarks, I appreciate that you made the effort to actually respond.

While I can hold my own in a fair fight I have also been on the receiving end of overwhelming firepower for absolutely no good in-game reason. While i acknowledge it is with the rules, it also pretty much destroys immersion and diminishes the quality of my game time (remembering i had no choice in the matter) simply because there is no in-game context. I have no problem duelling with pirates, or risking being murdered, which is why I play open exclusively. But I would also like to be able to cross paths with said pirate or murderer when they're going about their business trying to earn their credits and I just happen to be in my engineered up the wazoo killing machine rather than my trading ship, and perhaps exact a little revenge - which may only be a disabling of their ship rather than a kill, after all we civilized traders don't necessarily administer the death penalty for the theft of a paltry tonne or two of relatively low value cargo..... That seems to me like good gameplay for all involved.

But that gameplay goes out the window when a player uses open to do nothing more than wing up with other min-maxed killers in open... it's not the actual gameplay-free but within the TOS killing that I question, but the ability to make the substantial bank necessary to buy the hardware outside the open game then just bring it into open that I question. All I'm suggesting is that if you want to be a murderer in open, no problem, earn the rebuy/ammo/fuel money in open as well. It may be a step in the right direction towards a better C&P system, that's all.
I am one of the significant majority of players that primarily plays in Open.

Any player-killer who would flee into solo mode to wait out their penalty for murder is, in my opinion, a player that is also likely to combat log if they're on the losing end of a fair fight. Or looks like they may be on the losing end of a fair fight. Or is faced by another player who looks like they could possibly be part of a fair fight. And if they're not combat loggers, then they practice some other unsavory behavior I'd rather not have to put up with.

In other words, they're not likely to be fun to play with. And I would much rather play with people who are fun to play with.

In addition, when they play and where they live in real life is a much greater determinant for whether or not I'll ever encounter them in the game. Needless to say, if we don't play at the same time, we'll never encounter each other. And when it comes to matchmaking, I'll have a much greater chance on encountering a player who is geographically closer to me, and thus has a low latency connection to my computer, than a player who's half way around the globe. Add in the fact that there's no cross platform support, and I'm already not directly playing with 95% of the player base.

It doesn't bother me one bit if that number happens to be 96% instead, especially ​if the difference is made up with players I'd rather not play with anyways.
 
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Should credits not earned in open be available in open?

Yes.


I earn almost all my credits in exploration. I play almost exclusively in solo for the simple reason that one greifer can destroy me at whim with little to no consequence on him, but i can lose weeks or months of exploration data. In addition being destroyed returns you to the nearest station. That can be thousands of light years away (in my case from Sag A* to colonia https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/447369-Accidentally-logged-into-Open-last-night/page2) - just the distance moved can be the loss of an investment of dozens of play hours.

There is no other way in the game that you can lose such valuable assets, and by inference ... credits.

When in the bubble i'd be more happy to play in open... in fact i'd be happy with an open-only play mode IF the above issue was more balanced.


Frontier protect every other asset in the game so you dont lose much for being in open and getting PVP'd (with or without your consent). I fly in solo most of the time to give myself similar protection because frontier don't.

I see no reason why the credits i earn exploring should not be available to me in open.
 
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