Should Jump Range Be Used As A Balancing Factor?

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Was gonna add a simple yes/no poll, but I can't on mobile. Lol

Simple question, should FSD range be used for balance?
I'm not saying it should, or shouldn't. I'm kinda stuck on the fence with this one.
I'm also not saying that every ship should have identical jump ranges either.
Just been a hypothetical argument floating around in my head while flying to Sagittarius A*... (And now back)

I've been arguing with myself, (out of boredom!) and here are the points I've come up with, for, and against being used for balance;

For:
1. Ships need variation. Would be dull if they all jumped similar distance.
2. Nudges you towards trying other ships.
3. Creates ships with roles.
4. Peace of mind knowing if you escape an FDL/Corvette in to hyperspace, it likely won't be seeing you again.
5. Fully laden or combat spec ship shouldn't be able to jump with an empty scout Asp.

Against:
1. Needlessly makes travel slower for some ships, and not others. (Shipist!)
2. Multi system pursuit is virtually impossible due to so many other variables(fuel, instancing, loading times, etc), that adding range makes it fully impossible for some ships to follow anything.
3. Low jump range is a key factor for most people's choice to avoid some ships.
4. Doesn't really make ships 'overpowered' if they can jump further. Just able to travel more comfortably.
5. Fuel capacity is still an effective form of balance.

I think that's all the points I came up with.
I'll edit if I remember more.

Discuss!

(Remember, I'm not saying "OMG! Corvette/FDL need jump range boost noooooowww!"... )
But I wouldn't say no if FD closed to jump range 'range' somewhat. Lol

 

[freedom4556]

5. Fully laden or combat spec ship shouldn't be able to jump with an empty scout Asp.

This is not a reason, it is an opinion. The reason would be the answer to the question, "Why shouldn't a fully laden or combat spec ship be able to jump with an empty scout Asp?"

EDIT: To give an opinion on the matter at hand, I think all ships need to have reasonable (~20 ly) jump ranges when outfitted for their task. Just buff all ranges by that offset. Explorers still go further, all ships still have their distinctiveness, but the bubble effectively gets smaller for combat CMDRs, laden traders, and people with FSD's of lower grade than A.

Food for thought, a combat FdL takes the same number of jumps (and therefore time) to move less than 250 light years as it takes an explorer Anaconda to do 1000 according to a recent experience of mine.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

I'm ok with jump range being a partial balancing factor, but I do feel that some ships have far too low a range when fully kitted.

I'm not sure what the actual balance should be, but I think as a rough rule, if you plot a long course inside of the human bubble, and your jumps carry you sideways more than they do forward, your ship needs a range buff. Personally, around 15 lightyears seems to be where comfort starts. Too much below that, and traveling is a huge hassle.

18-20 lightyears is generally where I am really happy. More than that and I (personally) mentally classify it as "long range", and anything over 30 I consider "dedicated explorer".

 

[SystematicChaos]

This is not a reason, it is an opinion. The reason would be the answer to the question, "Why shouldn't a fully laden or combat spec ship be able to jump with an empty scout Asp?"

Err... Mass + size of FSD that can be fitted + the amount of fuel needed for the mass and distance springs to mind.

 

[Vandaahl]

I voted yes.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

It seems pretty arbitrary, but it isn't at the top of the list of things FD does that just kind of makes me shrug. The top is probably why they add ships to the game for roles that don't exist in the game.

 

[DragoonKnight]

First let me state that I am one of the people that would like to see FDL, Corvette, and a few others buffed for jump range. Now with that out of the way....

There need to be variations in jump range between different ships. The real problem, as I see it, is that on many jump-range limited ships anything less than an A rated FSD is essentially useless garbage. You are therefore forced to go straight from an E rated FSD to an A rated FSD. Many multirole ships like an Anaconda or an ASP can make use of a B or even C rated FSD. Most dedicated combat ships can not. I think this is the wrong approach in the overall design of the FSD mechanic. This is especially wrong in light of the fact that the B rated modules are supposed to be the heavy duty modules that you will want to have in Combat with you.

This is the way I would fix the FSD drives.
1. A rated and B rated FSD drives have the same jump capability, except that the B rated drives are still heavier and are better protected from damage. You would technically suffer a slight penalty to your jump range with these B drives due to their increased weight.

2. C, D, and E rated FSD drives receive an across the board boost to their jump range so that C rated FSD drives can be viewed as useful for CMDRs on a budget.

3. Consider including some sort of game mechanic that would help the jump-limited combat ships get to their destination in the bubble easier. Perhaps allow us to buy 4 jumps worth of jumponium at stations and outposts. It is used up during the next 4 jumps so regular jumponium is still useful for exploration.

 

[InMemoriamSirocco]

This is not a reason, it is an opinion. The reason would be the answer to the question, "Why shouldn't a fully laden or combat spec ship be able to jump with an empty scout Asp?"

EDIT: To give an opinion on the matter at hand, I think all ships need to have reasonable (~20 ly) jump ranges when outfitted for their task. Just buff all ranges by that offset. Explorers still go further, all ships still have their distinctiveness, but the bubble effectively gets smaller for combat CMDRs, laden traders, and people with FSD's of lower grade than A.

Food for thought, a combat FdL takes the same number of jumps and therefore time to move less than 250 light years as it takes an explorer Anaconda to do 1000 according to a recent experience of mine.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

I think the top is pretty good, but the bottom is a little too low. Increasing the lower end to around 15 would help negate the tedium. That's all it really is to move these ships around. Tedious.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

The real problem, as I see it, is that on many jump-range limited ships anything less than an A rated FSD is essentially useless garbage. You are therefore forced to go straight from an E rated FSD to an A rated FSD.

This is incredibly true, and I'd not even thought about it. I especially like your suggestion for B-rated modules. It would give them far more of a place in the game. That would also create space for the C rated parts to be boosted in power some, as currently they are so close to D parts, they seem mostly pointless, except for a few instances.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

I'd happily settle with all fully kitted Ships in their primary role not falling below a minimum Range.

I wouldn't want to argue that an FdL or Corvette must be a able to make 25LY Jumps. Because actually they can more or less - if you're willing to invest FSD Boost Materials that is.
Instead, I'd rather not see them below a critical minimum Range which simply renders them either impractical or nearly useless.

My personal benchmark has evolved to become something around 14LY. Below that, things start to hurt me. 13LY or less - and things become seriously painful.
12LY or less - and I begin to see a Ship more as a "Stationary asset" than an actually mobile vessel.

IMHO the greatest Ships can turn absolutely sour if their Jumprange plots you a route that reminds you of early Sidewinder days.
And a fully A-Grade Sidewinder carrying 8 tons Cargo has 14.5LY Jumprange, still 13.5LY with Military Bulkheads added.

To me, that's a good benchmark. Personally, I don't like a 100M, 500M or even a 900M Cr Ship to ever fall short of a Sidewinder in terms of Jumprange.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

I would also like to see more ships like the DBS. Fully outfitted for combat, it has about a 23ly range. Makes it a fun little light fighter. I would love to see a ship like the courier fill this kind of role.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

I would also like to see more ships like the DBS. Fully outfitted for combat, it has about a 23ly range. Makes it a fun little light fighter. I would love to see a ship like the courier fill this kind of role.

Eh, isn't the Diamondback Scout a ship like the Courier that fills that kind of role?

 

[CMDR Derrida]

Double all the jump ranges...double the fun!

 

[Alexander the Grape]

Keep jump ranges as a balancing factor IMO

If nothing else it's necessary to balance trading

 

[_Fissure]

Keep jump ranges as a balancing factor IMO

If nothing else it's necessary to balance trading

Out if curiosity, how do you see jump range balancing trading? The way I see trading balance is this: more money invested equals more cargo space avaliable. Not sure how jump range enters into the mix.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Eh, isn't the Diamondback Scout a ship like the Courier that fills that kind of role?

The DBS is a light, fast fighter with amazing heat management, fantastic hard point placement, and excellent jump range for its class. I would like to see the courier be a direct upgrade from that.

It is light and fast with decent maneuverability, but has a weak distributor for its hard points, bad jump range, and it suffers the worst penalties for every ton added of any ship. It also has atrocious heat management.

 

[crushdepth]

Posted by a corvette owner for sure. And 'yes'

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

I actually don't mind travelling in the FDL at times. The heat management is so amazing that I can activate the FSD while scooping. That helps a lot.

Still, I don't like taking it more than 120ly or so.

 

[znôrt]

i'd say it'is to avoid people using combat ships as multi purpose. if you fit for combat, you mean it. i'm not at all sure it's the best option to balance this but i do appreciate the result.

indeed a bit more flexibility for fsd would be nice, it's either max A or D, al other options are useless or plain ridiculous.