Just (un)-common sense: They can fly your fighter and your main ship in CZs/RES. Shouldn't they be able to perform a routine task like docking just as well?
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Should NPC crew members have docking computer functionality?
- Thread starter CATPAIN KIRK
- Start date
Oh gosh, another battle for the NPC flying attitudes and the autopilot thing!
No need for it to be a battle - it's a legitimate question, but I don't think NPC crews should replace a docking computer. Use it to complete an auto-dock? Yes, absolutely.
Or we can look at it this way: Pretty much anyone can sit in the cockpit of a plane and fly it. It's not particularly difficult. There's a fight school in my area I've been contemplating signing up at to get a light sport license, and as part of their program, they offer 1 hour flights, during which time they allow perspective students to "take the wheel" and see what it's like to actually fly. But they don't allow you to take off or land, as these feats actually require some skill.
So would I want a hireling conducting a manual landing? Maybe not, but using the docking computer, sure, have at it.
Or we can look at it this way: Pretty much anyone can sit in the cockpit of a plane and fly it. It's not particularly difficult. There's a fight school in my area I've been contemplating signing up at to get a light sport license, and as part of their program, they offer 1 hour flights, during which time they allow perspective students to "take the wheel" and see what it's like to actually fly. But they don't allow you to take off or land, as these feats actually require some skill.
So would I want a hireling conducting a manual landing? Maybe not, but using the docking computer, sure, have at it.
The first rule of fight school is...
We're not hiring as crew the equivalent of flight attendants, or stewards, or seat warmers though.
We're hiring professional pilots who are deemed competent enough to pilot our fighters as well as our ships when we choose to personally fly the fighter instead.
Why would a trained, professional pilot not be able to dock the ship? And have to rely on an auto-docking computer like a flight attendant would?
Sure, so long as you have a docking computer fitted!
Well - that's why I'm asking. Fighter bays need a lot of space, the pilots take absurdely large profit-cuts. I like using docking computers and the code is already there. There's no reason to not just apply it to the crew.
I agree that landing is one of the harder aspects in flying a plane and I dreaded docking in Elite in '85, but in ED, it's just an easy and very repetitive task. I fit docking computers to most of my ships because they allow me to take off my headset, do a bio break and fetch a beer.
It just feels redundant when I give up 32 tons of cargo for the smallest bay, yet still have to fit a DC.
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I'm hoping if Multicrew allows for NPC crewmembers, we can do away with that piece of equipment and let our hired thugs handle that chore. Hopefully other things as well, like me plotting a course and saying "engage", and let one of those guys fly me there while I go grab a burger.Sure, so long as you have a docking computer fitted!
I think it would be a great idea as long as you can trust your crew. Mine was rubbish at flying my Corvette, but I trained her up to Elite status. Now, I go to the Haz RES, jump in the fighter, take one pop at the bad guy and stand back while she sorts them out. She only takes 15%, which isn't bad considering that she does all the hard work. Still, she's made 20 million, which is probably more than most other crew at the moment.
Just as long as when they are docking your ship, the crew is humming the Blue Danube
Just as long as when they are docking your ship, the crew is humming the Blue Danube
I'd love a humming crew. I'm somewhat curious about the reasoning behind the two people voting no
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I'm more curious about no one voting Ni!
npc crew members should have all the functionality a player has.
leaving aside its quite unrealistic and immersion breaking that someone who is able to perfectly pilot a massive ship in your place gets dumbfounded when he needs to do something that game design forces players to do (docking etc), its actually unrealistic that one single person (player) is able to pilot and run massive ships of the corvette size anyway.
even if you consider that there would be a lot more automation in future, still software, devices, machines break or malfunction and require attention.
the game should have had npc crew members from the start - navigator, engineer, co-pilot, weapons officer, whatever you may see fit.
many functions are already performed by npcs in their own ships inside the game, and since they are not game breaking, it wouldnt be game breaking to have npcs do stuff in the ships with the player either.
even if a npc is piloting a ship against a player on another player's behalf, if the player fighting the npc is skilled enough, s/he can best that npc anyway - just like when fighting a npc in a npc ship.
things like 'lazy playing' can be circumvented through many means which can be devised as it goes - ie, npc crew members requiring a share of the profits like fighter pilots, big ships requiring maintenance (which they should, beyond mere fuel and occasional repair) and other expenses or whatever you can imagine.
this would not only be much more realistic, but also give players who amassed millions over millions of credits something to meaningfully spend their money too.
our current state of affairs as player is beyond unrealistic - a pilot, very skilled, works his/her way up from a tiny half- ship to a massive corvette-class ship worth ~200 million credits, actually possibly even amasses a few such ships and hundreds of millions of more credits making him a small power which could have his/her own small fleet,
yet s/he is still pigging out driving ships in space from location to location like a drone. s/he has maybe close to a billion credits, but for nothing.
........
in a real universe, such a person would set up a small company, organization, fleet - ie whatever would allow him to enlarge his/her activities.
x3 comes to mind - player sets up a massive corporation which makes massive profits and is able to produce its own commodities, even its own capital ships and outfit them.
elite, due to its mmo nature, would be hard pressed to accommodate such a format, but with numerous tweaks to the model, like how the pvp situation was solved with open/solo play, it should be possible to accommodate such a grand gameplay model to a great extent.
and players would look to becoming notable characters with notable impact in the game world and having something to work towards - instead of amassing billions of credits and them getting directed to money sinks.
leaving aside its quite unrealistic and immersion breaking that someone who is able to perfectly pilot a massive ship in your place gets dumbfounded when he needs to do something that game design forces players to do (docking etc), its actually unrealistic that one single person (player) is able to pilot and run massive ships of the corvette size anyway.
even if you consider that there would be a lot more automation in future, still software, devices, machines break or malfunction and require attention.
the game should have had npc crew members from the start - navigator, engineer, co-pilot, weapons officer, whatever you may see fit.
many functions are already performed by npcs in their own ships inside the game, and since they are not game breaking, it wouldnt be game breaking to have npcs do stuff in the ships with the player either.
even if a npc is piloting a ship against a player on another player's behalf, if the player fighting the npc is skilled enough, s/he can best that npc anyway - just like when fighting a npc in a npc ship.
things like 'lazy playing' can be circumvented through many means which can be devised as it goes - ie, npc crew members requiring a share of the profits like fighter pilots, big ships requiring maintenance (which they should, beyond mere fuel and occasional repair) and other expenses or whatever you can imagine.
this would not only be much more realistic, but also give players who amassed millions over millions of credits something to meaningfully spend their money too.
our current state of affairs as player is beyond unrealistic - a pilot, very skilled, works his/her way up from a tiny half- ship to a massive corvette-class ship worth ~200 million credits, actually possibly even amasses a few such ships and hundreds of millions of more credits making him a small power which could have his/her own small fleet,
yet s/he is still pigging out driving ships in space from location to location like a drone. s/he has maybe close to a billion credits, but for nothing.
........
in a real universe, such a person would set up a small company, organization, fleet - ie whatever would allow him to enlarge his/her activities.
x3 comes to mind - player sets up a massive corporation which makes massive profits and is able to produce its own commodities, even its own capital ships and outfit them.
elite, due to its mmo nature, would be hard pressed to accommodate such a format, but with numerous tweaks to the model, like how the pvp situation was solved with open/solo play, it should be possible to accommodate such a grand gameplay model to a great extent.
and players would look to becoming notable characters with notable impact in the game world and having something to work towards - instead of amassing billions of credits and them getting directed to money sinks.
Absolutely! [yesnod]
The NPC-crew should be able to do more than "just" fly the fighters.
Especially since they actually, already, CAN fly our ships - and some really good, if we are out flying the fighters ourself.
For my part; I wish that our hired crew can do basically anything one could expect from a co-pilot.
Fly, jump (high and low), land, park, dock; and so on - in addition to fly fighters.
Some unimaginative readers will naturally call this "lazy".
Which, of course, is not the case at all.
(It's quite surprising how many dullards that actually comment with the word "lazy".)
For me it will add to the feel of it all, make the whole ED experience more... Well.... "Real".
But most of all I would like to see my crew in the co-pilot seat, while not out fighting.
For a start, it's ok if they just sit there.
Right now they aren't really a crew at all, just auto-pilots with a picture attached.
The NPC-crew should be able to do more than "just" fly the fighters.
Especially since they actually, already, CAN fly our ships - and some really good, if we are out flying the fighters ourself.
For my part; I wish that our hired crew can do basically anything one could expect from a co-pilot.
Fly, jump (high and low), land, park, dock; and so on - in addition to fly fighters.
Some unimaginative readers will naturally call this "lazy".
Which, of course, is not the case at all.
(It's quite surprising how many dullards that actually comment with the word "lazy".)
For me it will add to the feel of it all, make the whole ED experience more... Well.... "Real".
But most of all I would like to see my crew in the co-pilot seat, while not out fighting.
For a start, it's ok if they just sit there.
Right now they aren't really a crew at all, just auto-pilots with a picture attached.
If they can't dock the ship what good are they
That's a totally different question though. You're saying if a ship wants to use DC to land, then whether it is the human pilot or crew pilot that flips the switch, the ship still needs a DC installed to auto-land via the DC. Which makes sense.
But that isn't the question here on this thread. Since a player pilot can land a ship manually in any station with zero DC installed, why shouldn't a professional pilot we hire as crew also not be able to land the darn thing? From our player pov this would indeed be automation, but it isn't a case of crew pilot flipping on the non-existent DC switch. It is the crew pilot performing the piloting skill you hired, paid, and continue to pay X% commission on all earnings.
So not docking computer functionality then?
You just want NPCs to fly the ship for you? Where would you draw that line?
Take your reply in the two parts you stated -
"You just want NPCs to fly the ship for you?" - Yes, and not just me. In case you missed the obvious big update with 2.2, FD themselves decided to add NPCs to fly our ships and fighters for us.
Where would you draw that line? - I draw the line at NPC crew that have no consequence to the player. (e.g. free or so low salary it effectively is free)
But since crew pilots cost pretty balanced commission %, with rising cost based on skill, and additive salaries per extra crew hired, we actually have to think and consider whether we can afford or want to pay our crew. I concede that crew costs could undergo further tweaks to balance them more, but point is as it stands, it is not a 'no brainer' decision to hire crew because the cost is significant enough that we actually weigh the pros v con.
So no, I don't 'just want' NPCs to magically fly my ship for me. I want them to do precisely what FD built them for - to pilot my ship in exchange for a reasonable commission salary. Which they do with 2.2. The question is - why is it not obvious that a trained professional crew pilot should be able to land a ship as well as the combat, weaponry, and evasive flight maneuvers they are clearly capable of doing?
Do crew pilots in 31st century ED-verse only need to learn how to fly the ship, target and fire ship weaponry, etc but skipped the how-to-land course when earning their pilot's license?
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