Shouldn't traveling faster than C mean Time Travel?

tim74uk · Jan 19, 2015

Hi all,

Hasn't it ever occurred to anyone else here that if we travel a distance faster than light, that due to relativity we should be traveling through time?

I understand the nuances of warp field theory and that the mass within the warp bubble isn't actually traveling faster than light, but still relative to fixed vector coordinates the speed is indeed faster than light.

Given the effects of relativity, shouldn't the time be moving backwards every time we get past 1 X C??

CMDR NeoN HaZe

Mephane · Jan 19, 2015

You don't travel faster than c. You move in a kind of warp-bubble of normal spacetime, around which spacetime is stretched and folded (think of a Star Trek warp drive, because that is based on the same idea). It is thus that only the warped space moves FTL, which afaik is indeed possible in reality.

PsychoFish · Jan 19, 2015

short answer: yes, but it would also be impossible

medium answer: no, because it's sci-fi and a game. if it were realistic, it would be unplayable because of relativity effects - same with star systems... the ones out there shouldn't exist in the form we know anymore

long answer: (not today)

schuesseled · Jan 19, 2015

Faster than light =/= time travel.

Apotheos · Jan 19, 2015

This game gets enough physics wrong, so I think we can let this one slide as well.

However, as Mephane posted earlier there is at least semi-plausible explanation for the frame shift drive operating as it currently does.

tim74uk · Jan 19, 2015

Mephane said:
You don't travel faster than c. You move in a kind of warp-bubble of normal spacetime, around which spacetime is stretched and folded (think of a Star Trek warp drive, because that is based on the same idea). It is thus that only the warped space moves FTL, which afaik is indeed possible in reality.

yes yes.... Warp bubble, compressed and expanded space....... Prevents infinate energy required to move mass etc etc.... I am more than fully aware of warp field theory.

That doesn't mean that relativity is torn up and thrown away.... you are still moving relative to a fixed coordinate faster than light... therefore Time Travel....

Do you see?

CMDR NeoN HaZe.

deMangler · Jan 19, 2015

tim74uk said:
yes yes.... Warp bubble, compressed and expanded space....... Prevents infinate energy required to move mass etc etc.... I am more than fully aware of warp field theory.

That doesn't mean that relativity is torn up and thrown away.... you are still moving relative to a fixed coordinate faster than light... therefore Time Travel....

Do you see?

CMDR NeoN HaZe.

Impossible to work it in a multiplayer game though.

Toscaner · Jan 19, 2015

tim74uk said:
yes yes.... Warp bubble, compressed and expanded space....... Prevents infinate energy required to move mass etc etc.... I am more than fully aware of warp field theory.

That doesn't mean that relativity is torn up and thrown away.... you are still moving relative to a fixed coordinate faster than light... therefore Time Travel....

Do you see?

CMDR NeoN HaZe.

even if it would be possible, it's not time travel. you just arrive faster than the image of your past.

Vander Mey jr. · Jan 19, 2015

tim74uk said:
Do you see?

I see someone argueing 21st century physics with regards to a 34th century sci-fi setting.

If you dismissed Star Wars, Star Trek, and Babylon 5, then what, pray tell, brought you to ED in the first place? ;-)

tim74uk · Jan 19, 2015

deMangler said:
Impossible to work it in a multiplayer game though.

Not impossible, just hard.

I guess I'm just pointing out a flaw in the concept of the FSD... I understand why they went with this solution, just can't help thinking there is a more eligant way to do it.... like have a jump gates ala Babylon 5 or ??? some other way.

Peace,

CMDR NeoN HaZe

Mephane · Jan 19, 2015

tim74uk said:
yes yes.... Warp bubble, compressed and expanded space....... Prevents infinate energy required to move mass etc etc.... I am more than fully aware of warp field theory.

That doesn't mean that relativity is torn up and thrown away.... you are still moving relative to a fixed coordinate faster than light... therefore Time Travel....

Do you see?

CMDR NeoN HaZe.

No because the only physically relevant coordinate system for the ship is the space within the bubble, in which you appear either motionless (Star Trek), or at least at sublight speed (ED - still feel acceleration and deceleration, but very gently only).

Tarman · Jan 19, 2015

tim74uk said:
Not impossible, just hard.

I guess I'm just pointing out a flaw in the concept of the FSD... I understand why they went with this solution, just can't help thinking there is a more eligant way to do it.... like have a jump gates ala Babylon 5 or ??? some other way.

Peace,

CMDR NeoN HaZe

Ewww noes!

No gates please, I like our current fake method way better. Gates are silly for other reasons.

Toscaner · Jan 19, 2015

tim74uk said:
Not impossible, just hard.

I guess I'm just pointing out a flaw in the concept of the FSD... I understand why they went with this solution, just can't help thinking there is a more eligant way to do it.... like have a jump gates ala Babylon 5 or ??? some other way.

Peace,

CMDR NeoN HaZe

gates still mean FTL travel. same problems. i don't think it's really more elegant.

tim74uk · Jan 19, 2015

Vander Mey jr. said:
I see someone argueing 21st century physics with regards to a 34th century sci-fi setting.

If you dismissed Star Wars, Star Trek, and Babylon 5, then what, pray tell, brought you to ED in the first place? ;-)

I haven't dismissed anything.... and it doesn't matter what century you are in physics is still the same. Just as Blue is still blue today yesterday or indeed 200 years from now!

CMDR NeoN HaZe

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Toscaner said:
gates still mean FTL travel. same problems. i don't think it's really more elegant.

True... But could be managed easier from an Online Game perspective.

CMDR NeoN HaZe

ZappaBappa · Jan 19, 2015

It would be time travelling in a sense that whatever you're approaching is having its time accelerated from your Point of view because you're catching the light that's travelling towards you faster. It would probably only be an Illusion of time travel only seen from your perspective,

tim74uk · Jan 19, 2015

Mephane said:
No because the only physically relevant coordinate system for the ship is the space within the bubble, in which you appear either motionless (Star Trek), or at least at sublight speed (ED - still feel acceleration and deceleration, but very gently only).

It's often hard to get across the idea of Relativity.

You are not stationary relative to a planet that you are traveling towards are you?!?

You are moving relative to the planet at 30 x C for example... that means that you are traveling 30 times faster than light towards the planet.

The way Warp works is by compressing space-time in front of the craft and expands it behind the craft....

Although this means that the craft is not moving through space-time faster than light, it is in fact space-time moving... it does not mean that relativity no longer applies.

You are still moving relative to objects outside of the warp bubble...

Do you follow?

CMDR NeoN HaZe

CMDR Sheehy · Jan 19, 2015

You need to be careful with that time travel thing. One wrong loop around a star and your whole cockpit will turn to this!!!!

Innigo · Jan 19, 2015

tim74uk said:
yes yes.... Warp bubble, compressed and expanded space....... Prevents infinate energy required to move mass etc etc.... I am more than fully aware of warp field theory.

That doesn't mean that relativity is torn up and thrown away.... you are still moving relative to a fixed coordinate faster than light... therefore Time Travel....

Do you see?

CMDR NeoN HaZe.

Sorry but no, space can expand and contract ftl without ever causing time to run backwards.

Udayana · Jan 19, 2015

tim74uk said:
Not impossible, just hard.

I guess I'm just pointing out a flaw in the concept of the FSD... I understand why they went with this solution, just can't help thinking there is a more eligant way to do it.... like have a jump gates ala Babylon 5 or ??? some other way.

Peace,

CMDR NeoN HaZe

No it's not a design flaw. And you are not traveling faster than light from a local reference.
It's based on this idea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

Fizzymcbangbang · Jan 19, 2015

This whole thread makes my brain hurt!