Sick of not knowing!!

[Aashenfox]

I recently lost a duel that was fairly close, against someone with an identical loadout to one that I frequently fly (so I know how long it takes to kill certain shield configs etc., I focus on the technical in that way). It's possible that he won fair and square, I'm certainly not invincible, but my instincts are pretty good and I think he might have been using premium railgun ammo. I don't mind that I lost, I'm not a bad loser, in fact, it keeps me improving.

The problem is I just don't know... I can't believe it has been so long since this was introduced and still we don't have a way of knowing if someone is using a 30% (THIRTY PER CENT!!!) advantage.

Naturally I'm expecting some to say 'hurr, durr, you can load premium ammo too', but I wouldn't, for two reasons; 1) I don't want to have an advantage over someone who isn't using premium, and 2) If premium becomes the norm for pvp, it becomes EVEN MORE inaccessible to players who don't have the time to constantly grind materials. With the power creep and grind as well as sheer practice level required to be decent at pvp in this game, I feel this is more than a step too far.

This is compounded by the fact that we now have raw material supersites a little way out of the bubble, giving those with time to farm, a huge advantage and basically endless premium refills.

Personally I would prefer that premium ammo is only effective against NPCs and gives no bonus against players, but I would settle for at minimum, a notification that I am being hit with premium so that I can decide if I want to stand and fight at this HORRENDOUS disadvantage.

EDIT: A few days after posting this it suddenly occurred to me that those I suspect of using premium ammo, could just as well be cheating. I'm not saying they are, but once again the problem is not knowing. You can use the trainer to program a 30% damage increase and simply get away with it, no grind, no fuss. Most players won't be able to tell the difference and even the experienced will just assume you are using premium. This is a major problem, as premium effectively and unambiguously enables and occludes cheating.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

I think a notification of some kind would be nice. It would make policing tournaments easier lol.

 

[Northpin]

I'm actually baffled that you can scan someone' ship and find out what weapons and what modules he has equipped...

But strictly on topic, i'd rather have premium ammo completely removed along with fixed hitscans microgimbals

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Premium ammo is just as superfluous as the engineer power creep is. It is however much more accessible, so I dont really get the complaint.

 

[Bionic Bytes]

My view is that for all engagements a detailed log of the exact loadout and engineering of the opponent is written to the log along with hull strength and shield values so we can all be sure of a level playing field.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Premium ammo is a requirement for proper min/maxing.

Min/Maxing is a requirement for proper PvP.

This has been the order of things since the first cave people threw the first rocks at each other.

Grog throw sharp rock. Sharp rock hurt more than smooth rock. Grog win.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

My view is that for all engagements a detailed log of the exact loadout and engineering of the opponent is written to the log along with hull strength and shield values so we can all be sure of a level playing field.

This must be the combat log people talk about so much.

 

[Aashenfox]

I'm actually baffled that you can scan someone' ship and find out what weapons and what modules he has equipped...

But strictly on topic, i'd rather have premium ammo completely removed along with fixed hitscans microgimbals

I wouldn't complain if it was removed, but I have no issue with it being used in pve, particularly to level the thargoid playing field, I think it would possibly keep everyone happy for it to simply have no effect on players. But then some people will be like 'mAh iMmersHuNzzz11!'

 

[Speedcuffs]

Premium ammo is a requirement for proper min/maxing.

Min/Maxing is a requirement for proper PvP.

This has been the order of things since the first cave people threw the first rocks at each other.

Grog throw sharp rock. Sharp rock hurt more than smooth rock. Grog win.

Grog tribe ignore Grog for being a Richard.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I wouldn't complain if it was removed, but I have no issue with it being used in pve, particularly to level the thargoid playing field, I think it would possibly keep everyone happy for it to simply have no effect on players. But then some people will be like 'mAh iMmersHuNzzz11!'

One could argue you just want to preserve your hard-earned engineer advantages over peasant prime ammo grinders.

Imo, the best would be to have engineered AND premium ammo to have no effects on other players.

 

[Hacker#451563]

I feel you foxyfoxfox. I remember EVE online after a certain point.
You'd get engaged by ships with TECH II (best player made) everything and possibly some special "named" modules which could be even better and then they'd supercharge their modules (which increased the efficiency/damage/power output etc while slowly degrading the module) and they'd be using some sort of TECH II or "named" ammo as well.

I watched a fully hardened battleship melt in under 7 seconds against a single ship like this.

Of course you can say sauce for the goose (Mr. Savik) but is it good for the game?

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Can’t say I’ve ever felt the need to grind for that sweet 30% s k i l l boost.

I’ve done enough of that just to engineer my ships lol.

I’m so lazy, that I’ve transferred the same PAs/boosters/armor between ships for years.

I have 20 ships, but only four that are combat ready at any given time lol.

 

[Aashenfox]

Premium ammo is a requirement for proper min/maxing.

Min/Maxing is a requirement for proper PvP.

This has been the order of things since the first cave people threw the first rocks at each other.

Grog throw sharp rock. Sharp rock hurt more than smooth rock. Grog win.

Premium ammo is just as superfluous as the engineer power creep is. It is however much more accessible, so I dont really get the complaint.

Sharp rocks aren't better than smooth rocks, see modern ammunition. But this has nothing to do with the stone age arms race, quite how you could see it that way baffles me. When you're hit with corrosive you get a warning, drag the same, and in fact all the meaningful effects. I suppose you think they should remove those warnings, cos minmaxing? Lol.

NNE, the complaint is articulated very, um, articulately, in the op. Engineering ones entire ship is obviously far more important than a 30% damage advantage and is also largely easy to tell, since most engineering weapon special effects have accompanying warnings, so your rebuttal kinda helps my point. Cheers.

 

[Aashenfox]

One could argue you just want to preserve your hard-earned engineer advantages over peasant prime ammo grinders.

Imo, the best would be to have engineered AND premium ammo to have no effects on other players.

See above

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Yea premium ammo, afraid I see it in same boat as enginnering.
It's a stick masquerading as a carrot; seems like a sweet advantage till you realise your on the hamster wheel.

 

[Northpin]

I wouldn't complain if it was removed, but I have no issue with it being used in pve, particularly to level the thargoid playing field, I think it would possibly keep everyone happy for it to simply have no effect on players. But then some people will be like 'mAh iMmersHuNzzz11!'

One other option (but i hope everyone noted that i'd rather have premium ammo and microgimbals removed) would be to have the weapon detailing in some funky colors for both standard and premium ammo. But this would require coding and we only have bug fixing untill next year

 

[Lateralus]

It should just have an effect icon under the hologram like engineering effects do when they hit your ship. Simple solution.

Already submitted this as a suggestion a few weeks back: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/pvp-suggestion-add-an-effect-icon-for-non-basic-ammo.527037/

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Sharp rocks aren't better than smooth rocks, see modern ammunition. But this has nothing to do with the stone age arms race, quite how you could see it that way baffles me. When you're hit with corrosive you get a warning, drag the same, and in fact all the meaningful effects. I suppose you think they should remove those warnings, cos minmaxing? Lol.

NNE, the complaint is articulated very, um, articulately, in the op. Engineering ones entire ship is obviously far more important than a 30% damage advantage and is also largely easy to tell, since most engineering weapon special effects have accompanying warnings, so your rebuttal kinda helps my point. Cheers.

I just think players get any edge they can grasp in games. And it's best to assume they did so when you encounter them. Do you think a warning would change anything? I mean I wouldn't be able to tell any meta damage done to me from cheating.

 

[Aashenfox]

It should just have an effect icon under the hologram like engineering effects do when they hit your ship. Simple solution.

Already submitted this as a suggestion a few weeks back: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/pvp-suggestion-add-an-effect-icon-for-non-basic-ammo.527037/

Id like audible warning too, but I'd settle for this.

 

[Aashenfox]

I just think players get any edge they can grasp in games. And it's best to assume they did so when you encounter them. Do you think a warning would change anything? I mean I wouldn't be able to tell any meta damage done to me from cheating.

If this were true, sure, but it's not. Most players don't want to quadruple the grind they are already doing, engineers you unlock once. Yes for some that may take time, but only once. Other players simply will never have the time to grind premium ammo mats and this instantly makes pvp inaccessible to them. Not ideal, eh?