Silent running counter = heat... Really?

[Kvas]

Really? heat when firing while in silnet running ? Its not that hard to write a script in T.A.R.G.E.T or CMS scripting in CH controll manager. Like what this guy did. (starts at 0:47, for some reason embeded vid ignore time stamps)

[video=youtube_share;LzCJToZJmZA]https://youtu.be/LzCJToZJmZA?t=47s[/video]

 

[Lord Momo]

The guy has to leave SR which means you will be able to see him so that mave be enough, but if it isn't FD can always make SR just easier to see. They could also say using a script like this is not allowed to discourage the curious.

 

[Kvas]

It will cancel your lock, so you will have to lock on to him again if he do this. That's why I point it out, heat can't be the solution, they have to come with a different idea.

 

[Rhaedas]

The counter wasn't to make SR not work, it was to make it not possible to stay in it while using weapons. And you're right, with either smart planning of scripts or buttons, or just thinking before you fire, you can "get around it" by cutting off SR, firing, then resuming. Let's test it out first in beta and see how much of a difference it makes before we go crazy about it. One fix if this is easily gone around with that technique...have heat buildup and removal not be instant. If you turn off SR, your existing heat buildup inside takes a second to drop, and so firing right away will spike that heat, making a SR off/fire/SR on too quickly be virtually the same as leaving SR on.

But let's not try fixing a problem that we don't know exists yet.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

The issue with silent running in the current meta isn't just silent running. It's silent running used in combination with other broken things.

In truth, silent running as a mechanic needs a decent buff. If it weren't for HRP's it'd still be a completely useless aspect of combat, as it was before their introduction.

The idea that heatsinks will fix silent running is just Frontier being Frontier. They either don't get the problem or they don't want to spend the time and effort to address it directly, so they're tackling it through something simpler that they can understand which they believe will have an effect.

This has been their M.O. since the beginning. Really all you can do at this point is hold your head in your hands and just wait to see what happens in the final patch that addresses the issue, because it's a complete toss-up as to what the future holds for this aspect of the game at this point.

 

[Thrace Fulton]

The counter wasn't to make SR not work, it was to make it not possible to stay in it while using weapons. And you're right, with either smart planning of scripts or buttons, or just thinking before you fire, you can "get around it" by cutting off SR, firing, then resuming. Let's test it out first in beta and see how much of a difference it makes before we go crazy about it. One fix if this is easily gone around with that technique...have heat buildup and removal not be instant. If you turn off SR, your existing heat buildup inside takes a second to drop, and so firing right away will spike that heat, making a SR off/fire/SR on too quickly be virtually the same as leaving SR on.

But let's not try fixing a problem that we don't know exists yet.

Exactly. If going silent with already-hot weapons either doesn't instantly vanish you, or spikes the internal heat as the outer sinks clamp down, and there are time delays involved in each step, it should mitigate the ability to script around it by forcing a slow down in the sequence. The slower the swap in state becomes the more reactionary the opponent can be - I suspect this is their balancing fulcrum.

 

[Kvas]

Ok, If what you suggest is right, and you will stay on the radar after firing... what's the point of emmisive ammunition?

 

[Rhaedas]

Easy, have silent running set up as hold rather than toggle, while firing trigger silent running and add delay. Wont work, think of something different.

Well, sure, I didn't say it would be a hard task. The perceived problem to some is that the player will be able to blink in, fire, blink out. This needs to be looked at to see if it's a problem in a real combat situation, or if just adding the need to SR off is enough to counter untargetable fighters. After all, most weapons are going to need more than a quick burst to do much, so SR isn't going to be a constant thing if that player wants to actually attack someone.

 

[Kvas]

Railguns do exactly that, you just need a quick burst, and then reposition.

Another thought, delaying heat buildup might cause a problem in itself.

I am not trying to bash anyone, just throwing around ideas how to counter it, current idea is easily avoided with scripts.

 

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Like I said in the other thread. Simply add a delay before weapons can be used when entering/exiting Silent Running. If they truly want heat to be a mechanic involved iwth SR, it's an easy fix just as it was an easy fix for people enabling/disabling SCBs.

I think the heat is just an additional penalty they're adding into it. The emissive modifier is going to make it all moot anyway most likely. From the videos thus far, there seems to be very little pilot feedback when something is affecting your ship aside from the obvious ones like the FSD changes. That being the case, you'll be using a macro to use SR and fire weapons and popping heat sinks, while being completely oblivious that you're glowing like a bonfire to everyone within sensor range.

 

[Kvas]

<brainfart> sorry tis was a long day

 

[frostypaw]

Ok, If what you suggest is right, and you will stay on the radar after firing... what's the point of emmisive ammunition?

Lasts longer?

It makes sense you shouldn't be able to go straight to SR - firing weapons creates a fair bit of heat. Implementing a cooldown of just a second or two would make a real difference - then add in emissive rounds that might last 5-10 seconds of visibility and such tricks just won't cut it

 

[Kvas]

Maybe a cooldown and startup for silent running?

 

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Think it would make sense to make firing impossible while in silent mode.

That would mean it wasn't an intended feature, which they haven't stated as being the case. Their primary concern is HRPs and basically anyone using HRPs and SR has a load of extra power to shunt elsewhere. If they made you shunt power into SYS to make SR effective, the power issue would be less of a factor for balance reasons.


Along with emissive modified weapons, there's also the new missiles which will sandpaper all of their external modules (which includes drives.) SR running ships will have to worry about not only Chaff and Heat Sinks, but also enough PDs to counter missiles. I expect wing combat to change quite a bit since no single ship will have enough PDs to prevent an enemy wing from knocking a focused target out of the fight very quickly.

ECM has it's limitations.

We'll see how this plays out in the beta. The heat change is only one part of a grand list of changes to shake things up.