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Silent Running in Combat ...to hinder target lock
- Thread starter Yodafone
- Start date
I've killed about 70 elite anacondas form gamma through release and none of them have had railguns.
Most of the pythons I've fought have, and they also have had fragmentation cannons.
Silent running / heat levels certainly do work against players. NPCs cheat at so many things right now, heat levels are probably just another one. My A3 sensors couldn't pick up a cobra running at 50% - 150% heat in silent running at over 2.5km.
Hey mate. I love what you're working towards. Give my vid on power management a look and it should help you refine your tactic a small amount. You'll notice that when the shift occurs that heat is not generated from the systems. In essence, it will let you bring more to the table while running cooler than usual.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KshhFI5S-tA&list=UUBqC4ByKFYJu1WNY2RxxORA
Keep this stuff up. It's all the intricacies of the game that will eventually elevate it to one of the best ever made.
Peace.
Envisage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KshhFI5S-tA&list=UUBqC4ByKFYJu1WNY2RxxORA
Keep this stuff up. It's all the intricacies of the game that will eventually elevate it to one of the best ever made.
Peace.
Envisage
I tried silent running fighting a player with gimballed. To my shock and awe, it worked. His weapons went wide, it was awesome and I laughed as he fired away into the vastness of space.
I forgot my shields went down because of this. My heat climbed, I went "hot".... he locked on and now I don't have shields. All I thought was "wow... I'm just a big ole dummy" as I went boom to an eagle.... in a cobra.
Let's just say I don't do that anymore.
I forgot my shields went down because of this. My heat climbed, I went "hot".... he locked on and now I don't have shields. All I thought was "wow... I'm just a big ole dummy" as I went boom to an eagle.... in a cobra.
Let's just say I don't do that anymore.
The problem I had with the 4 multicannon build was the low power they use. I normally have 2 c1 or c2 beams and to use htem you need to do what you demonstrate in your vid, going over the power without them is actually hard. I had an A2 power plant in the test viper I was using, not an A3.
That was more than enough for A3 FSD, A3 thrusters and the d2 shields and weapons.
The real problem with fighting with silent running is the heat generated by your thrusters and weapons. I had 8 heat sinks, that just isn't enough for any length of time, it might be a good tactic to use for if your shields go down and let you escape.
Personally I would fight with shields up to start. Why yield one advantage for another when you can have both? Start with ranged peppering, trade off blows, and then when appropriate, hit silent and drop their target mid fight. Continue to manage heat from THEN.
Maybe you need to think about STEALING the advantage, instead of HAVING the advantage ;-)
I hope that concept may prove fruitful. I'll follow along to see how it all goes.
Also, you can ALWAYS down grade a power plant to fit the structure I was laying out. If you were on an A2 instead of an A3, then check the balance for D3 and D2... they're lighter, making you more manuverable. Trouble however is the heat management stat. Certainly worth an investigation though to perfect your pursuit.
For example, if an D2 power supply means your interdictor fsd cargo and scoops are all no longer generating heat at all, they might be better over all than having a base line high heat management? Who knows. test test test
Perhaps it will bear fruit, perhaps it will waste 3 hours of your time. Please let me know however as silent running is a personal interest.
Maybe you need to think about STEALING the advantage, instead of HAVING the advantage ;-)
I hope that concept may prove fruitful. I'll follow along to see how it all goes.
Also, you can ALWAYS down grade a power plant to fit the structure I was laying out. If you were on an A2 instead of an A3, then check the balance for D3 and D2... they're lighter, making you more manuverable. Trouble however is the heat management stat. Certainly worth an investigation though to perfect your pursuit.
For example, if an D2 power supply means your interdictor fsd cargo and scoops are all no longer generating heat at all, they might be better over all than having a base line high heat management? Who knows. test test test
Perhaps it will bear fruit, perhaps it will waste 3 hours of your time. Please let me know however as silent running is a personal interest.
Personally I would fight with shields up to start. Why yield one advantage for another when you can have both? Start with ranged peppering, trade off blows, and then when appropriate, hit silent and drop their target mid fight. Continue to manage heat from THEN.
Maybe you need to think about STEALING the advantage, instead of HAVING the advantage ;-)
I hope that concept may prove fruitful. I'll follow along to see how it all goes.
Also, you can ALWAYS down grade a power plant to fit the structure I was laying out. If you were on an A2 instead of an A3, then check the balance for D3 and D2... they're lighter, making you more manuverable. Trouble however is the heat management stat. Certainly worth an investigation though to perfect your pursuit.
For example, if an D2 power supply means your interdictor fsd cargo and scoops are all no longer generating heat at all, they might be better over all than having a base line high heat management? Who knows. test test test
Perhaps it will bear fruit, perhaps it will waste 3 hours of your time. Please let me know however as silent running is a personal interest.
The A power supplies are needed to reduce the ships heat. I tried out the Ds, not as good, I think an A1 was just too low. A2 and A3 reduced teh ships heat by the same amount, I imagine an A4 on a cobra would be similar.
Its a bit of a shame that there isn't a low heat version of the equipment. D is lighter, B heavier, A the best, might be nice if C was lower heat.
Personally I only equip A and D equipment.
*edit, I'm all for different "builds" being viable. At the moment just putting all A equipment is the best solution for many ships. This isn't really balancing or making the player make decisions, just limiting having the "best" until you have more credits.
I like the viper because all A equipment isn't just the best version.
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Just a reiteration.
If you use 2A with kinetics you wont be able to "turn off systems" when you pop weapons because you have more available than deployed MW's. If you use a lower MW 2d and EXCEED the available with your deployed, those turned off systems wont generate ANY heat. I don't know if the balance is better or not, but it could be nice to find out
If you use 2A with kinetics you wont be able to "turn off systems" when you pop weapons because you have more available than deployed MW's. If you use a lower MW 2d and EXCEED the available with your deployed, those turned off systems wont generate ANY heat. I don't know if the balance is better or not, but it could be nice to find out
This is wrong, even at 0% and silent running you can still be locked from a close distance, the hotter the ship gets the bigger the distance.
Just a reiteration.
If you use 2A with kinetics you wont be able to "turn off systems" when you pop weapons because you have more available than deployed MW's. If you use a lower MW 2d and EXCEED the available with your deployed, those turned off systems wont generate ANY heat. I don't know if the balance is better or not, but it could be nice to find out
I was able to do that in this video: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=89396&p=1417223&viewfull=1#post1417223
When I deployed weapons I got everything turned off for me, but when I went into silent running (after the anaconda took out my shields) everything turned back on because silent running turns off the shields. I would need weapons that use more power than my shield, but have the shield use less power than the modules I want turned off. Not sure if you could do that, worth a look though.
Hey thanks Envisage, thanks for posting, I have experimented with priorities but wish I had seen that vid of yours a while back (found priority listing very useful in lil Sidewinder). Question, because I'm barely using nowhere near my ships full available power, setting priorites won't automatically turn any systems off until you exceed the 100% yes/no? I have a setup in my Cobra presently with some less critical low rated, D sensors/D life support etc, because of the benefit they provide of demanding less power and subsequently less heat generated throughout the ship, thus reducing my signature. I have however set my priorites listed just in importance, seemed logical if my power requirements ever change during a battle, but is there anyway to get the ship to automatically turn systems off when you haven't exceeded the power plant's maximum output?
Presumably Ive more power than I really need at present, but this does have the advantage, of me using less of it as the PP is more efficient, and like I say, reducing my power use "over all" to 50 odd %, with the current loadout you saw, thus reducing my signature dramatically, plus thrusters and weapons get replenished quicker (obviously).
Perhaps one only needs priorities when your power demands are high, and like you describe in your guide, go over the available Wattage.
Still any further advise would of course be appreciated, I suppose I'm asking directly, what could I do to set my priorities up better, if anything, in the video of the OP? (you should be able to see my whole loadout (and priority settings) when I turn my systems off, that are surplas to requirements in battle)
Thanks Envisage.. Lancer
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This quote below from Morbad was at a response to this of mine above from the OP.
Yabba suggests Morbad is wrong.
I had been convinced by Morbad about his issue that when Silent Running is engaged, current heat signature doesn't have an impact on how effective Silent Running can be. We've established from Sandro Sammarco's response on my first initial thread asking if SR can be used in combat, and his reply was very clear concerning that Silent Running has no effect within 2-300 meter distance (of a foe's radar), but that this distance will be extended with bettter rated Sensors, up and over 1km, which we are finding out.
However, now, again, Yabba has dropped the seed of doubt in me, with someone else agreeing that signature does still play a part whilst running Silent Running, despite the signature's waveform display being replaced by the SR warning light when engaged, suggesting it does NOT matter with SR engaged.
During my experiments, I too felt SR was more effective the lower my internal heat built up (despite it probably being me imagining things, very hard to gauge), which is the main reason why I fitted m-cannons throughout in the video of the OP.
However, user "fergal" did do some very valuable tests with another player, as the results suggested quite clearly that whilst rigged for SR, heat signature had no effect. Just thought I'd add this, but perhaps npc's behave differently to PvP (and cheat sometimes/somehow).
I'd still like clarification, or at the very least, Yabba, could you explain why you say what you say?
Thanks. Lancer
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My feelings on it were just through personal experience, I do alot of smuggling and have had ship scans that started while approaching dock under SR and have used the heatsink to break it. BUT like I said, that is just personal feeling, it may've been that I just passed out of scan range each time that's happened. If fergal has indeed done several tests with another player then I might well be wrong.
Sure, it seems against PvP, heat signature doesn't make a difference. Fergal did do quite extensive tests for me which was very kind, to get some hard values, so we certainly are much the wiser now. With npc's however, but particularly mission driven ones, I expect they can cheat (in essense), with certain information to get the missions to work fairly. Sometimes it really depends on your own loadout on your own ship, how extensive the pirate's hardpoints etc are. Perhaps this game balancing occuring, will also have a knock on effect in other areas, and so using SR against these pirates might not always be foolproof.
Still, clearly SR does work against turrets/gimbals etc, from a certain distance depending on how good the sensors being used are, so whether heat signature has an effect or not, is really not that important, other than good heat management will increase the longevity each time SR in used.
Thanks for your input Yabba
Lancer.
Regardless of silent running/heat signature, NPCs can see you from a considerable distance if you pass through their field of view. This is the main reason why silent running does not automatically let you sneak into a station.
This used to be readily apparent in that one training mission with the Elite Cobra you were supposed to sneak past. He will attack you from 2km+ out if he sees you, even if you are silent running. However, I've been able to follow him from a distance of ~500m until I exploded from heat without him knowing I was there, as long as I was always behind him.
I think they removed this tutorial mission upon release, which is a shame cause it's one of the most educational ones. Still, you should be able to do the same experiment in the mission with type-9.
This used to be readily apparent in that one training mission with the Elite Cobra you were supposed to sneak past. He will attack you from 2km+ out if he sees you, even if you are silent running. However, I've been able to follow him from a distance of ~500m until I exploded from heat without him knowing I was there, as long as I was always behind him.
I think they removed this tutorial mission upon release, which is a shame cause it's one of the most educational ones. Still, you should be able to do the same experiment in the mission with type-9.
I think there are 2 different things happening. The scanners that players see behave "as expected". That is, if a ship is in silent running they become vague (or unresolvable, whatever we are calling it) unless they are at a very close distance. I don't think this is happening with the NPCs. They probably don't use any such system, just a line of sight check within a certain forward angle.
Hey fergal, another epic battle quite frankly, very interesting again, seeing heat management without the use of Silent Running for the most part. I certainly agree at around about 5.30 approx was it, dropping heat sink's at the right distance (so still quite far out on these elite pirates, so over 1.5km), made a difference to his turret's ability to make contact, which is good, all is right in the game where heat management & heat signature is key (when not using SR).
Clearly anything over a respectable signature, makes little difference to turrets, but what you shown, tallies with my own experience, you need to keep in the low 10-20, 30% max really, to negate target lock when not using SR, which is quite tricky obviously, but not impossible with good heat management and heat sinks of course (and careful piloting).
Yet more info for the Heat Management, Silent Running in Combat pot. Some close escapes too, was it at 11 mins?, plasma ball of death nearly hitting you, good evation
, and still this was all done with no shield cell potions, so credit where credit is due, despite it taking quite a long time, but this is testing. So... thanks for posting this fergal, is really helpful to see yet more tactics on the subject.
Will definitely improve our skills when we know what's possible and what isn't, like i say against any lessor more average foes, will improve these results.
Lancer
Yeah I remember that, you're right Morbad, was an invaluable tutorial/lesson. Doesn't quite make sense why it's not part of the guides anymore. I forgot about it actually. Edit: forgive me, there is one with a type-9 instead yes?
Concerning npc's seeing you, for sure, they should also have coding to emulate this ability, so line of sight should be taken into account by looking at your target's orientation on your HUD.
Lancer.
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