Size of the Milky Way (science-related discussion)

Sola_Mae

S
This all started with my extremely dorky idea of trying to map the route that Voyager took (Star Trek) when they got thrown into the Delta Quadrent, and was throwing around the idea of trying to follow their path back towards Earth. There's actual a huge amount of research done on what their basic course was. (See- http://www.stdimension.org/int/Cartography/VoyRoute.htm )

So I went to the Galaxy Map and tried to figure out abouts where they started. They were supposedly 75,000 light years away from Earth (Sol). Now I don't expect the writers of Star Trek to have got all the science related details right, but I noticed that (using the coordinates on the Galaxy Map which show distances in light years from Sol, that 75,000 LY would be off the map entirely and not even in the galaxy anymore.

Ok, so the Star Trek writers got their numbers wrong, I think. But then I remember hearing that the Milky Way Galaxy is about 100,000 LY across and then I confirmed this on NASA's website. But if you look at the LY distances from Sol in both directions, the length across the galaxy is much closer to 75,000 LY from end to end, unless you include all the apparent nothingness on either end. I mean maybe that explains the NASA figure, if the outer 25% edge of the galaxy is so incredibly sparse of systems but there's stll a few out there?

Is the galaxy in the game a little too small? And if not, Star Trek's numbers are off by a bit! Which is not surprising but dissapointing!

Much appreciation for any thoughts here! I know it's a bit off topic, but, well it's about the galaxy that we are exploring!
 
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Galactic Fork

Galactic Fork
Sola_Mae said:
This all started with my extremely dorky idea of trying to map the route that Voyager took (Star Trek) when they got thrown into the Beta Quadrent, and was throwing around the idea of trying to follow their path back towards Earth. There's actual a huge amount of research done on what their basic course was. (See- http://www.stdimension.org/int/Cartography/VoyRoute.htm )

So I went to the Galaxy Map and tried to figure out abouts where they started. They were supposedly 75,000 light years away from Earth (Sol). Now I don't expect the writers of Star Trek to have got all the science related details right, but I noticed that (using the coordinates on the Galaxy Map which show distances in light years from Sol, that 75,000 LY would be off the map entirely and not even in the galaxy anymore.

Ok, so the Star Trek writers got their numbers wrong, I think. But then I remember hearing that the Milky Way Galaxy is about 100,000 LY across and then I confirmed this on NASA's website. But if you look at the LY distances from Sol in both directions, the length across the galaxy is much closer to 75,000 LY from end to end, unless you include all the apparent nothingness on either end. I mean maybe that explains the NASA figure, if the outer 25% edge of the galaxy is so incredibly sparse of systems but there's stll a few out there?

Is the galaxy in the game a little too small? And if not, Star Trek's numbers are off by a bit! Which is not surprising but dissapointing!

Much appreciation for any thoughts here! I know it's a bit off topic, but, well it's about the galaxy that we are exploring!
Click to expand...

Well, the distance we're limited with star to star jumps, where warp drives drove between stars. It kinda depends how far apart stars are the farther out you get. So Voyager coulda been in an area where stars are 100 ly from each other on the average, but that'd affect the "sky" in the space scenes, and they were never devoid of stars like when we go off into more sparse areas. Of course, they never really showed the core in the background either. It was just kinda stars in all directions.

But, I think the Stellar Forge probably made the galaxy a little smaller than the real Milky Way is.

Edit:
Here is the Star Trek Galaxy:
1VnTmkE.jpg



Edit again: The Star Trek bubble isn't much bigger than the ED bubble, but sooo many more aliens.
 
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Cdr Voorheez

Cdr Voorheez
So looking at that Star Trek map the route voyager took looks similar to the direct route to-from Beagle Point (Not that there is a direct route there are massive abyss regions on route to navigate).
 
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Sola_Mae

S
Thanks all, that route map is very helpful and a great article. I definitely noticed too how the galactic core of brighter stars is missing in Voyager. I do think it would be fun to try and emulate their route as much as possible. It would sure be a long trip!
 

Jackie Silver

Jackie Silver
We don't know either the size or shape or mass or number of stars of the Milky Way for certain. It's easier when looking at other galaxies, but the problem with the Milky Way is that the Milky Way is in the way. :)

That said - 100,000 ly is the usual estimate - though as the galaxy is a funny looking spiral shape, not a nice easily-bounded solid disk it's hard to say exactly what that means - and the Forge galaxy is maybe a little smaller, so yeah. The halo goes out much further in any case, and the Forge doesn't include the halo at all, which is a pity.
 

ick

ick
Is the 75,000 miles a point-to-point measurement or "road miles"?

LA is 2,450 miles from NYC... point to point.
Shortest road distance is actually 2,800 miles using a mix of interstates and local roads.
Shortest road distance using only the interstate highway system is 2,900 miles?

If you had to avoid certain areas and take course detours to go around barren areas (AZ desert), un-passable mountains (Utah), hostile pits of decadence (Chicago), and detours to kiss Trump's royal ring (Washinton D.C.) what kind of road miles would you have?
 
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Sola_Mae

S
That's a good point. Voyager ends up taking countless detours including larger ones to avoid Borg space. But initially it was stated that their distance was 75,000 LY from Earth and couldn't include calculated detours at that point since it's uncharted space.
 

ArchEmperor

ArchEmperor
There is most likely no real definite or absolute barrier that divides the great void beyond the Milkyway and the galaxy itself. It is fair to assume that there is less and less astronomical bodies swirling around the further you get from the mass centre of the galaxy, but it never gets to 0 astronomical bodies at a certain distance.

I think that there is a soup of astronomical bodies that are not luminous beyond a certain gravity zone, with great distances apart. Something we can call dark astronomical mass.
 

Allitnil

Allitnil
The extent of the ED galaxy is generally between about 80,000 and 85,000 LY depending on where you are measuring from. That's probably not too unrealistic without knowing just how the the 100,000 LY figure from NASA is determined. The NASA figure could represent their best guess distance between furthest stars, but that would only be a guess as the nice round 100K would suggest. But it could also refer to the gravitational influence rather than where actual stars are limited to, ie it extends to the globular clusters which orbit the MW but aren't included in the proc-gen ED galaxy.

Whilst the ED galaxy is obviously erroneous in some respects, I would argue that it is much more accurate than the Star Trek one!
 
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