Skip module inflation...
- Thread starter Bigmaec
- Start date
This or continue the positive start made with military-locked slots, all those years ago. Ideally add a separate section of outfitting for restricted military, CPU and utility functions so people are less likely to complain about not being able to fill every slot with cargo racks.
Trouble is, if you ask the average player if they want more slots, they tend to say yes. If you ask them if they want restricted slots they tend to say no. But they are not game designers and seem to not consider the huge implications this has in terms of game balance, even from a PvE perspective, moving forward. Damn it people, you don't know what's good for you!
The other problem is these things are much harder to go back on once added. If you try to take open modular slots away from people later there will be an uproar, so the only way to balance it will be to pump up weapon damage or put a hard cap on defences.
The other problem is these things are much harder to go back on once added. If you try to take open modular slots away from people later there will be an uproar, so the only way to balance it will be to pump up weapon damage or put a hard cap on defences.
The problem is defense is already gimped as it stands, adding a g5 thermal resistant HRP (as Morbad posted elsewhere) for free to every ship doesn't make the balance better. I would be totally ok if we get a specialized non-military optional slot (as suggested elsewhere), but another two unrestricted slots for smalls and one for medium and larges won't be positive.
The ships will be so much more powerful with a size 1 slot, the horror
Yeah, not to be a douchebag, but I'm inclined to think people saying 'it's just C1 slots, no biggie' just have very limited experience in building or fighting combat ships.
How about put into other words, so forget the 'C1 module' part and instead think about a 35% absolute hull increase for ships like the Diamondback Scout, (even higher incease in effective hull, after resistances), putting things like the Viper IV within reach of 3k hull, or a 15% absolute (23% effective) hull boost for the FDL.
These are not insignificant numbers. If you're not PvP inclined, try shooting some spec ops FDLs in a CZ then think about buffing it with an extra 23% health.
Editing for clarity: I actually like the idea of more slots, provided that they're restricted to utilities. It's not the idea of more utility or choice that is the problem, it's Fdev's runaway health stacking problem. The way the game is currently designed it actually minimises choice for combat pilots because there is a clear best-in-class module for every slot.
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Better defense on small ships is a good thing if you ask me, they need some love as well.
About the thermal resistance HRP, it only really will add a couple % of resistances and a teensy bit of hull that can easily be negated by plasmas or corrosive munitions. The freed up higher class thermal resistance HRP can be engineered for max health instead, true, but it won't add that much to the hull health either.
The most common use of the size 1 slot on the medium and large ships will most likely be a FSD interdictor when it comes to combat loadouts, that's how I see it.
About the thermal resistance HRP, it only really will add a couple % of resistances and a teensy bit of hull that can easily be negated by plasmas or corrosive munitions. The freed up higher class thermal resistance HRP can be engineered for max health instead, true, but it won't add that much to the hull health either.
The most common use of the size 1 slot on the medium and large ships will most likely be a FSD interdictor when it comes to combat loadouts, that's how I see it.
Yes, exactly, freeing up the size 2 and 3 slots that were hitherto occupied by said interdictor for even more defences. Like I said, I really think you're not seeing the full implications here. Go poke around in one of the ship building sites if you're unsure of how the numbers will actually stack up.
I've been poking around them for quite some time now, don't worry, that's exactly why I say this.
The added % and hull and even the absolute hull won't increase that much to say it's going to be impossible to kill the ship, just maybe a few shots more, so it won't really be an issue.
And for those who currently run no interdictors and will add one to the new slot, it won't change a single digit in terms of defense.
Numbers are just that, numbers and the field performance can and will be different. And there's the module sniping as well, which completely throws the argument out of the window, but that's a different topic altogether.
What I am trying to say is that crying about it now is pointless until you got the real deal. Back when the Guardian shield reinforcements came up, there was a lot of guessing and moaning on how it will inflate the health pool and whatnot but you don't see much, if at all, about this now.
The added % and hull and even the absolute hull won't increase that much to say it's going to be impossible to kill the ship, just maybe a few shots more, so it won't really be an issue.
And for those who currently run no interdictors and will add one to the new slot, it won't change a single digit in terms of defense.
Numbers are just that, numbers and the field performance can and will be different. And there's the module sniping as well, which completely throws the argument out of the window, but that's a different topic altogether.
What I am trying to say is that crying about it now is pointless until you got the real deal. Back when the Guardian shield reinforcements came up, there was a lot of guessing and moaning on how it will inflate the health pool and whatnot but you don't see much, if at all, about this now.
Nope... a size 1 G5 Thermal HRP adds 39% Thermal, which paired with G5 HD Reactive armour is actually very significant when I get to now re-engineer a current size 3 Thermal HRP to HD. For consideration, the new size 1 slot on my Krait will allow my to move my FSS interdictor to the new size 1 slot, add a size 2 G5 Thermal HRP to the former Interdictor slot, and re-engineer the size 3 Thermal HRP to HD... adding 400+ to my hull.
So, you haven't read anything
So the ability to fit more hull and module reinforcements is a non-issue because... 'numbers are just numbers' and 'module sniping exists'?
Sir, you really are not displaying a lot of brainsmarts here, I'm really sorry to tell you.
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You can say what you want, but the reality of the matter is that it won't change a thing in terms of combat. Oh, and corrosive munitions, as I wrote earlier, will make that increase seem like a lie. Module sniping is a very common thing, especially when you run known hull tanks like the Krait, FAS and co, people will resort to module sniping and module reinforcements only will drag it out for a little bit longer.
And I'm going to repeat myself for the sake of argument here. There was a lot of complaining about inflating hp pools in the past at every change FD made in terms of engineering recipes, adding optional slots and introducing new modules, just like this one, and those died down very quickly afterwards every single time, so this won't be different. Even if this will make a little dent in the whole hp pooI matter, which I doubt it will, in the end, people will adapt and move on. Simple as that.
Also more module slots will only add to the versatility of the ships outside of combat. It's not like the game solely revolves around pews.
So, again, just guessing around that matter is a fool's errand. Chill, drink a cold one and try to look at it from a different perspective.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have IRL things to do. See you out there o7
And I'm going to repeat myself for the sake of argument here. There was a lot of complaining about inflating hp pools in the past at every change FD made in terms of engineering recipes, adding optional slots and introducing new modules, just like this one, and those died down very quickly afterwards every single time, so this won't be different. Even if this will make a little dent in the whole hp pooI matter, which I doubt it will, in the end, people will adapt and move on. Simple as that.
Also more module slots will only add to the versatility of the ships outside of combat. It's not like the game solely revolves around pews.
So, again, just guessing around that matter is a fool's errand. Chill, drink a cold one and try to look at it from a different perspective.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have IRL things to do. See you out there o7
You can say what you want, but the reality of the matter is that it won't change a thing in terms of combat. Oh, and corrosive munitions, as I wrote earlier, will make that increase seem like a lie. Module sniping is a very common thing, especially when you run known hull tanks like the Krait, FAS and co, people will resort to module sniping and module reinforcements only will drag it out for a little bit longer.
And I'm going to repeat myself for the sake of argument here. There was a lot of complaining about inflating hp pools in the past at every change FD made in terms of engineering recipes, adding optional slots and introducing new modules, just like this one, and those died down very quickly afterwards every single time, so this won't be different. Even if this will make a little dent in the whole hp pooI matter, which I doubt it will, in the end, people will adapt and move on. Simple as that.
Also more module slots will only add to the versatility of the ships outside of combat. It's not like the game solely revolves around pews.
So, again, just guessing around that matter is a fool's errand. Chill, drink a cold one and try to look at it from a different perspective.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have IRL things to do. See you out there o7
Your ability to be shown clear evidence and entirely ignore it is commendable. Have you considered a career in politics?
People are already using corrosive munitions and module sniping, and have been for years. Thanks for taking the time to explain them, and how ships work, but this doesn't constitute a rebuttal of evidence.
Complaints raised during previous patches die away for the very obvious reason that it's viewed as a lost cause once Frontier have impemented it, and the opportunity to enact change is often limited to the beta stages of a patch - if at all. Rest assured there are still thousands of players who believe that powercreep and TTK in this game are off-the-charts and have been worsening for years. Whether or not a series of complaints 'die down' has little bearing on whether the issue itself was resolved.
As has been stated many times, players are asking for restricted slots to promote choice rather than take it away, because as it stands there are best-in-slot options and the only real choice presented to players is that of utility vs survivability, which is arguably not an interesting choice to make, nor does it promote a healthy multiplayer environment.
Now if you'll excuse me, I am going to take your advice to chill, drink a cold one and try to look at this issue from the perspective of a casual player who is objectively wrong. It will be a thrill ride.