Small code based change to add depth to outfitting: link sensor grade to gimbals / seeker ordanance

[Rubbernuke]

Sensors are a massively neglected part of outfitting.

Proposal:

Link sensor grade to weapon tracking. So, an A grade sensor gives you 100% gimbal efficacy, 'normal' lock times. This would get lower the cheaper your sensor grade package- so C grade would give you 50% gimbal efficacy (so you'd need to have the target closer to the center of the screen to get the gimbal to track), missile lock times would be longer.

This balances the advantage of gimbals with the cost, power and weight of A grade sensors.

You could also make it so better sensors get less confused by dazzle, TLB and chaff. So for example A grade sensors are slightly better than todays sensors at defeating electronic warfare.

Engineering effects could also be added, with hardened sensors against dazzle, TLB and chaff.

In theory this is a code based change that could be done in the 'light' updates prior to the Big One™ in 2020. It would add a lot of strategic depth to outfitting.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

+1

I've suggested similar before.

 

[Rubbernuke]

+1

I've suggested similar before.

Many people have too, and FD came very close to doing it in the distant past. It deserves a second chance and fits into the code based changes Will hinted at.

 

[Clicker]

Only change I'd make is "A-Rated would reduce jitter by 90%" as an example.
You then still need to engineer the sensor to make it even better.

I don't think I'd be a fan of a 100% jitter free, gimballed weapon.

 

[Bloodsign]

I'd like to see better sensors lessen the guided weapons lock time. I mean, you already are locked on to a target, why do you need to lock on MORE for seekers and torpedoes?

It would be nice if there were some kind of soft lock drop also, ie when a target leaves your sensor range, it doesn't just drop the active lock entirely.

 

[Lestat]

Another idea is to make counter Mesures for gimble weapons less effective.

 

[Fake Newts]

Another idea is to make counter Mesures for gimble weapons less effective.

Gimbals are already arguably too efficient compared to fixed, considering how much more challenging the latter are to get good at. There needs to be an incentive to use fixed weapons and the chance to benefit from improving your skill in the game. Elite has a high skill ceiling but precious few of the mechanics push towards it. If you weaken countermeasures you will weaken fixed even further and low-effort, high efficiency multicannon builds will become even more ubiquitous than they already are...

 

[Jubei Himura]

I'm for this.

 

[Jaggedmallard]

This would be a nice way to make higher grade sensors actually worthwhile. +1

 

[Misty_Dark]

I like the concept. but with the current set of engineering choices, then A-rated, light weight sensors becomes a given choice.

I fear this will just follow this pattern:
A-rated are in most cases the best modules
B-rated are useful in certain circumstances
C-rated are most useless
D-rated are used when lightweight is preferred.
E-rated are just the cheapest worst version that you can get.


I think this is a underused option that we can expand on. Giving us more potential more meaningful uses for using B-, C- and E-rated modules

So we could think about stuff like this as the effect on Gimballed/turret weapons. These are just examples of how we can think about stuff like this, I like to have upgrades that give you a bonus in one area, and give you a negative on another area. So we could have more balanced options that works in most cases, but excel in none, and then we have those more specialized options, that excel in one, and come last in another.

A - Faster but less accurate tracking, good for close encounters and fast moving ships, bad at long range, increased heat generation
B - Sturdy tracking, that account for jitter, so it reduces the effect of jitter at increased power usage
C - Slower but more accurate tracking, good for long targeting, bad for close faster targets, increased heat generation
D - Light version, with added jitter
E - Default as we have today, best heat efficiency.

 

[metatheurgist]

Sure but only if they remove that stupid arm waving thing they do when they lose lock. By default they should lock dead ahead.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Another thought would be to also fiddle with the integrity a bit, as technically sensors are now a valid target- so B grade would be inherently tougher.

Also, the quality of tracking / sensor function should be tied to sensor health- so at 100% the sensor works 100%, degrading linearly. So, if you cheap out with lightweight (which is popular) you'll be in trouble while if you have chunky B grade (with perhaps a new experimental 'double braced' or 'shielded') you are ready for action.

 

[Sylow]

The "protects against chaff" part i dislike. I think that chaff should stay the way it is. Unlock your target and you avoid all chaff effects, anyway. (What reminds me: i really still would like to have a "unlock target" button. )

On the rest: something like this was not only suggested already, we had it even in beta testing at some time. Sensor grades affected the tracking range of gimbals. It actually was rather good. With e-grade sensors you felt restricted, with d-grade you were already almost on par to the present status, anything better made your gimbals better than present day status. Also, most people who had access to the beta and actually tested were i favor of this change.

But the inevitable happened: a crowd of forum warriors rallied against it. Some were known to be PS4 players without access to the beta, other clearly (by what they posted) only read the patch notes and concluded that things were bad, without ever getting any hands on experience.

So in a lot of wailing and screaming, their rivers of tears washed away this improvement of the game. It's traditional here, it happened several other times. (E.g. the attempted nerf or shield boosters. It was a very moderate and considerate nerf, but some people felt like FD was stealing their cake and went up in arms. )

I'd still very much welcome most of those changes to the game. Perhaps we could even get them in by now, a lot of those who fought hard against any challenge added to the game by now got bored by the lack of challenge for their booster-stacked ships and left. Making things a bit harder for the most expensive ships would indeed improve the game.

 

[Bashy81]

The principle of the old sensor/gimbal idea was A-rate sensors would result in equivalent tracking to the present standard. It wasnt supposed to buff gimbals. This is the key question tho imo, is this suggestion assuming that gimbals need a buff?

 

[Fake Newts]

Gimbals definitely do not need a buff.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I fear this will just follow this pattern:
A-rated are in most cases the best modules
B-rated are useful in certain circumstances
C-rated are most useless
D-rated are used when lightweight is preferred.
E-rated are just the cheapest worst version that you can get.

C-rated used to be very useful, as they're not that much more expensive than E-rated, but on most module types have a significant amount of the performance of A-rated. They're also much easier to find.

The problem now is that with Shinrarta/EDDB meaning searching for modules isn't an issue, modern earning rates meaning pricing isn't an issue, and engineering meaning that there's less inclination to buy a mid-range module now to upgrade later, they've lost their niche.

 

[Misty_Dark]

C-rated used to be very useful, as they're not that much more expensive than E-rated, but on most module types have a significant amount of the performance of A-rated. They're also much easier to find.

The problem now is that with Shinrarta/EDDB meaning searching for modules isn't an issue, modern earning rates meaning pricing isn't an issue, and engineering meaning that there's less inclination to buy a mid-range module now to upgrade later, they've lost their niche.

Exactly! also they was alot more useful when credits was alot harder to come by... but you are totally right, the Engineers was the final nail the usability for C-rated modules.