General Smuggling Should Be (MORE) Profitable

I think I hardly need to explain it, but basically smuggling should be a high risk, high reward activity:

-You are risking high fines, ones that completely destroy any profit and rather put you on the red with any transaction involving illegal items.
-You are providing a hard to obtain commodity that at least in theory has a large market with an unfulfilled demand for that commodity, making any units you manage to smuggle a highly desired rare commodity, for that system/station at least.

As it stands, smuggling is mostly known as a "fun" activity you do if you want a change of pace from other activities. And while I do like that, I do wish that it also provided benefits for players that want to role-play as a pirate/raider/smuggler in Elite.

That being said, I do think the overall related gameplay could be further polished and expanded. Take for instance providing transport to criminals: if scanned all ships begin to shot you on site, no questions asked. That in my opinion is the other end of the spectrum.

I think smuggling and transporting criminals could share similar surrender/flee mechanics:

-If scanned, the authority demands you to surrender by reducing you throttle to zero. At that point your smuggled goods and/or criminals passenger are seized and you are fined or even sent to jail depending on the gravity of the situation. On the other hand, you decide to flee, so your goods or passengers aren't captured, at which point the authority does open fire on you. If you manage to escape, the criminal asks you to take him back to the location you picked him up from or to a backup location, likely a nearby outpost or small planetary location with large landing pads (if using a large ship) for a fraction of the original rate or simply in exchange of not losing reputation with the passenger's related faction. Perhaps you could even be given a chance to complete contract by making a second attempt from that location.

-In the case of smuggled goods, you get to keep them and can still attempt to sell them elsewhere. You still need to pay the fines/bounties, but since the authority failed to properly inspect the cargo, the fine could be lower on the assumption that they don't know for certain how many units of that illegal cargo you were carrying, and reduce the fine to the standard amount of cargo the ship can carry (the default cargo capacity of the ship when you buy it). For example, you could have tried to smuggle up to 790 tons in a Type-9, but since the authority couldn't board your ship, they will assume you could only carry 348 tons, which is what a stock Type-9 can carry by default. If we get only a minimalist fine for a single unit of every type fo smuggling item we carry, I wouldn't complain, but I guess a middle point between the two should exist to make feeling with the smuggled goods a better alternative than letting them being seized.

Alternatively, we could have the option to bribe the authority, which could work like this:

-We visit the station prior to the smuggling, visit the black market or another contact (customs or a political one) that will allow us to pay the bribe. This will allow our ships to not be scanned for a period of time while in their airspace (in-game this could be explained as our ship being filtered out from the scanner during that time). The availability of this service and its cost could be dependent on government type and the current state of the system (civil unrest, war, elections, etc.). I could even imagine that in some government types such as a dictatorship, if we are allied with the controlling faction we get a "free pass" to smuggle items and criminals while they are in power.

Anyway, just some ideas I came up with to make such types of gameplay more robust, partly inspired after seeing the raider ship kits in discount.

P.D. Piracy itself, namely PVE piracy against NPCs, could also benefit from some rework, that also makes it more viable at different stages (newbie, veteran, etc.), but that's a topic I will try tackle some other time.
 
this has many threads before it.

no-one seems to get it.

this time I will ask differently.

do you consider holding up a single ship or 2 , collecting the spoils, then selling on the black market smuggling or rather, Piracy?
most people do.
otherwise there are numerous missions that are also actual smuggling.
is there anything wrong with them?
bribing usually comes in the form of pay to be allied, then you don't get scanned upon entering a station.
I do these things already. I don't pirate tiny ships though, I pirate goods as they are ready to leave a port, as in taking 4,000 to 10,000 tons of something meant to go to a certain faction. I divert it though. this to me is a much more worthwhile piracy act. It is much larger than a ship or 2 and worth a lot more.
You do get huge fines, but paying the fines is an option. this can also be considered a type of bribe, if you want to do more of the larger piracy with that faction at least.
the only reason I ever pirate single ships is to get rare goods that are actually very hard to find.
I view it the same as pirates IRL used to. no reason to risk fines or jail for pennies, if it isn't a huge payout, it isn't worth the effort.
a petty thief is a petty thief. A pirate is someone that can support his family and his community and often does so by stealing from large corporations.
 
do you consider holding up a single ship or 2 , collecting the spoils, then selling on the black market smuggling or rather, Piracy?
Glad you asked, since it's important to note the difference:

-Piracy: let's say you "appropriate" some goods and manage to smuggle them into the a station. And for the sake of argument let's say that black market goods had a 25% price bonus for skipping parts of the supply chain and therefore increasing your profit margin. Turns out that the commodity you obtain is in large supply at the station and the price has depressed, to the point that even with your 25% bonus you still get less than the galactic average for your loot.

Put it simply, depending on your situation the better option might be to just go to an outpost (which chances are won't have any security to scan you) with a black market to cash in your loot.

-As per my initial comment, the smuggling I refer to mainly refers to goods that you know are in high demand in the station, not only because the market is unable to supply the demand for them, but because the prohibition means that it can't be solved even if people were willing to pay premium for them... unless someone breaks the law and smuggle those desired goods.

Also the margins I'm talking about would be far larger. Take the prohibition era and alcohol for example:

One gallon could cost between 50 to 75 cents to be made, and be sold between $3 to $12. In some cases this was easily a x10 margin.


bribing usually comes in the form of pay to be allied, then you don't get scanned upon entering a station.

Okay, I do have heard about this, but even after checking some more threads on the topic, the bottomline is that people seem not certain on how that mechanic works. Some saw that you are given a lower priority, but will still get scanned if there are few ships around. The one benefit that do seems to be confirmed from being allied is that the faction's ships will immediately appear as such, without the need of a scan.

If a dev wants to clarify how that mechanic is supposed to work, that would be great to settle the matter, but for the time being I will assume that despite being allied you can still get scanned, therefore a adding a proper bribing mechanic that does ensure that you won't get scanned would still be a desirable extra option for smugglers.

Lastly, from what I have heard, rare goods were profitable at some early point in the game, but nowadays bulk trading is far more profitable. It seems some people do leave their carriers next to station with them and try to stock up on them, since transferring the goods does reset the maximum amount you can have at a single time. Still, it sounds like a slow process, since people speculate that it takes about 15 minutes for these shops to restock just a few single digit units of those rare commodities.

Out of curiosity, how much of these rare commodities does NPCs carry? While I have done some smuggling, I actually haven't tried my hand at pirating, but would be interested in doing so at some point.
 
Agreed.
Old fashioned "Robigo Runs" were some of the most fun balance to risk and reward that's ever existed in Elite Dangerous.
Stack a shed load of missions (usually to different stations) and try and complete them all without ever being scanned. Trying to Dock and undock several times without getting noticed was always a challenge.

450~ly trip, felt like cops were chasing you the whole time, get scanned even once and you fail all the missions, but if you can avoid it and hand in all of them, it was a huge payout.

These days with engineering, they'd be a tad too easy, but I'm sure that can be balanced. Even if not, it was still quite the time investment.
 
Agreed.
Old fashioned "Robigo Runs" were some of the most fun balance to risk and reward that's ever existed in Elite Dangerous.
Stack a shed load of missions (usually to different stations) and try and complete them all without ever being scanned. Trying to Dock and undock several times without getting noticed was always a challenge.

450~ly trip, felt like cops were chasing you the whole time, get scanned even once and you fail all the missions, but if you can avoid it and hand in all of them, it was a huge payout.

These days with engineering, they'd be a tad too easy, but I'm sure that can be balanced. Even if not, it was still quite the time investment.
So, so much this. Robigo paid for my Cutter and Corvette, and it was tons of fun. Unfortunately players found a way to exploit it, and instead of fixing the exploit, FDEV took the missions out completely. Smuggling has been basically dead ever since. Nowadays Robigo is a tourism spot.
I still have an icy cold running fast Python that can also bite if needed for the small chance that smuggling ever gets a revival.
 
...and at same time, selling to a Black Market -> impact on INF of station owner, should be removed as it is a complete no-sense.
 
this has many threads before it.

no-one seems to get it.

this time I will ask differently.

do you consider holding up a single ship or 2 , collecting the spoils, then selling on the black market smuggling or rather, Piracy?
most people do.
otherwise there are numerous missions that are also actual smuggling.
is there anything wrong with them?
bribing usually comes in the form of pay to be allied, then you don't get scanned upon entering a station.
I do these things already. I don't pirate tiny ships though, I pirate goods as they are ready to leave a port, as in taking 4,000 to 10,000 tons of something meant to go to a certain faction. I divert it though. this to me is a much more worthwhile piracy act. It is much larger than a ship or 2 and worth a lot more.
You do get huge fines, but paying the fines is an option. this can also be considered a type of bribe, if you want to do more of the larger piracy with that faction at least.
the only reason I ever pirate single ships is to get rare goods that are actually very hard to find.
I view it the same as pirates IRL used to. no reason to risk fines or jail for pennies, if it isn't a huge payout, it isn't worth the effort.
a petty thief is a petty thief. A pirate is someone that can support his family and his community and often does so by stealing from large corporations.
There's a big difference between piracy and smuggling. With smuggling, you buy the goods somewhere where it's legal, so you have significant outlay. With piracy, you just have the cost of limpets and ammo. You can't apply the argument of being a thief here as a smuggler hasn't stolen anything. The problem is that black markets do not differentiate and you have a 25% markdown wherever the cargo has come from. At that point you might as well just trade.

The risks of bringing in illegal cargo should be higher though (more scans, especially in high sec) and it might benefit from being something that's high profit, but relatively low demand (since realistically you should have less people willing to buy illegal goods than if they were legal- also, how do you hide 700t worth of slaves? Someone's going to notice). However a rework is needed as it's a dead playstyle now.
 
...and at same time, selling to a Black Market -> impact on INF of station owner, should be removed as it is a complete no-sense.
Or maybe what is needed is black markets in all government types. I find it odd that authoritarian governments had no black markets as that's exactly where you should find them. Removing it as something affecting influence isn't the way I'd like to go though as where would you draw the line at criminal acts not affecting what's going on? Would having that removed set a precedent?
 
There's a big difference between piracy and smuggling. With smuggling, you buy the goods somewhere where it's legal, so you have significant outlay. With piracy, you just have the cost of limpets and ammo. You can't apply the argument of being a thief here as a smuggler hasn't stolen anything. The problem is that black markets do not differentiate and you have a 25% markdown wherever the cargo has come from. At that point you might as well just trade.
This markdown for smuggled goods is the biggest nonsense. I can understand it for piracy cargo, which has the "stolen" marker. Smuggled goods that were bought legally though should pay more at the black market. The smuggler satisfies a demand at the destination which is illegal there. The added risk for both sides should result in a higher payout than regular trade.
 
This markdown for smuggled goods is the biggest nonsense. I can understand it for piracy cargo, which has the "stolen" marker. Smuggled goods that were bought legally though should pay more at the black market. The smuggler satisfies a demand at the destination which is illegal there. The added risk for both sides should result in a higher payout than regular trade.
Agreed. I'm just spit-balling an idea, but the essence of it is basically what you've said. Illegal actions that result in a payout should have additional rewards to the legal route, with consequences if caught. Personally though, I feel like now we're back to an arguably more logical C&P system in Odyssey where punishments from crimes are applied to the Cmdr, not the ship we're in a position for a better balanced system.

Still, with engineering on the menu for looking at now, long standing issues are being dealt with. Hopefully this is on the list too.
 
Or maybe what is needed is black markets in all government types. I find it odd that authoritarian governments had no black markets as that's exactly where you should find them. Removing it as something affecting influence isn't the way I'd like to go though as where would you draw the line at criminal acts not affecting what's going on? Would having that removed set a precedent?
Only affecting security, and system states...
 
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