CQC So I did some CQC.

[Lucavex]

And it was a complete failure. The only commanders there are ones who've prestiged multiple times and have the best loadouts. Newbie players don't stand a chance against them and without a chat function, it's impossible to get pointers from more seasoned commanders on how best to play. It's no wonder this travesty of a game mode is so dead. It actively dissuades new players from jumping in by locking the stuff you need to succeed behind yet another Frontier grind that only the most dedicated players can achieve.

The game mode is broken. And I have experienced it firsthand. Unless you get together with a bunch of new CQC players and try to learn together it's not worth playing. Good luck finding people who want to play AND are at the same skill level you are.

 

[Leo Sagan]

I play CQC a lot these days (grinding the elite rank), I'm on the CQC discord most of the time and the regulars are nice and friendly.

And *YET* I cannot find a single objection to what the OP just said. CQC is an epic fail because FD never faced this simple truth : to produce a good space shooter these days, you need time and cash. I still cannot grasp the logic they followed when they released it : 4 maps only, no bots, no in-game queue, a defective stats system (not the same elite rank in game and in CQC) and the infamous broken matchmaking (maybe they fixed it now, we'll never know : not enough players to match anyone nor anything these days). They basically nipped in the bud the damn thing. The learning curve is indeed ridiculously steep and unless you're a very good shooter with a good setup with the right keybinds / HOTAS buttons, be prepared to die often and a lot. I mean A LOT.
.
We're left with a niche mode inside a niche game. Hell, FD won't even correct the most obvious bug (broken lobbies).

On a more positive note though, if you really want this juicy 4th Elite title, games are easier to find lately (on PC) with games sometimes starting at 4pm IGT (2pm even like yesterday) and running past 2pm. Makes the LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG Elite grind much easier and faster : a few weeks ago I estimated my grind would end in early 2019. With the new CQC players joining games earlier every day, I might finish it by july. If I can do it (very bad shooter), so can you. And Ed & his team do a wonderful job (as usual) to support the mod by streaming games with the devs on every platform.

Still, one thing is sure : the instant I get the Elite rank, I quit CQC and never play it again. Sad but true.

 

[MUSKETEER]

You have to be tougher, OP. And the loadout unlocks are not that extremely better as you may think, they allow you to boost more often but weapon remains the same i.e. damage of pulse laser in condor at rank 50 is the same as in condor at rank 1. Those people who prestige many times lose all their loadouts and have to climb the ladder again and again.

I also thought people were beating me because they had better loadouts. It's not true. I know it now.

Still, one thing is sure : the instant I get the Elite rank, I quit CQC and never play it again. Sad but true.

Really?

I like CQC gameplay, when it works. But then I was more a PvP minded player from the start.
When I started to play CQC regularly I was not thinking about Elite rank back then, but after a few weeks of being chased and executed by veterans I eventually started to make some progress. Once I got my 2nd prestige I started to think that Elite rank is possible. So I play a lot these days, but even if/when I get Elite rank I'll keep playing CQC (even if less than now), because I enjoy it.

If I hated CQC and wanted to force myself to grind for CQC Elite rank I would probably quickly give up. It's not worth wasting your time on doing something you don't like.. because all that is for a virtual badge that nobody gives a damn that you have.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I also thought people were beating me because they had better loadouts. It's not true. I know it now.

Yeah, there are some loadouts marginally better than stock, but it's 10-20% better, an edge in a close fight that's all.

The rest of the issues, on the other hand, are all perfectly fair.
- no way to chat and help people improve (which we work around on the Discord, but we can't even tell the people we're shooting at to go there, so how do you get started...)
- regardless, experience does a lot. A very good main-game combat pilot can go head-to-head with CQC veterans and pick things up fast ... but there aren't many of those about. Most of the veterans have no real interest in shooting beginners either, but there's no way to even voluntarily arrange to be in a different match.

That last issue has actually got worse, I think, since I started. When I started two years ago it was often tough to find a match at all, but there'd often just be one prestige-ranked veteran in it (and sure, they'd win, but everyone else got to fight) ... and even the prestige players were less tough then - everyone's got a lot better over the last two years, and there's more of them.

As always, the fixes are the same:
- in-game lobby chat
- transparent lobby browser so you can assemble your own fights, self-segregate by strength, and see if it's worth queueing right now

...hopefully as the number of players continues to increase, it'll get back onto Frontier's list of features worth developing further.

 

[Torashuu]

Didn't find the loadouts to be a problem, learning the maps and how to fly however are very challenging. Regardless I found the few times I played my score fluctuated wildly, sometimes I'd be near the top, sometimes I couldn't get anything done. I really did enjoy the challenge in flying though, really requires good precision maneuvering and good situational awareness.

 

[Leo Sagan]

Really?

I like CQC gameplay, when it works. But then I was more a PvP minded player from the start.

IRL (meaning "in the main game" since CQC is a game in a game ), I'm almost strictly playing in private : not interested in PVP at all I'm afraid.

When I started to play CQC regularly I was not thinking about Elite rank back then, but after a few weeks of being chased and executed by veterans I eventually started to make some progress. Once I got my 2nd prestige I started to think that Elite rank is possible. So I play a lot these days, but even if/when I get Elite rank I'll keep playing CQC (even if less than now), because I enjoy it.

I envy you : you must have a lot of fun I sometimes enjoy it but most of the time I'm on my private group vocal discord while I farm. Oddly enough, focusing on the game and trying hard to win / survive usually ends up with even worse results than playing distracted

If I hated CQC and wanted to force myself to grind for CQC Elite rank I would probably quickly give up.

I was considering quitting before joining the discord : you guys are so nice it stopped the frustration. I mean, the name "Musketeer" went from "not this guy again" to "Ah good ol' Musket is online, maybe I can take him this time ... errrr ... or maybe not". All the vets serial killers on the discord were nice and helpful to me, this made me stick to the game I suppose. To any newcomer, I'd STRONGLY suggest to join the CQC discord, this will help you in ways you cannot even imagine ...

It's not worth wasting your time on doing something you don't like.. because all that is for a virtual badge that nobody gives a damn that you have.

Nobody ... but me I needed new challenges in the game or I was about to leave. I figured CQC would be tough enough. I wasn't disappointed
No way for me to leave before I get the final rank.

And given the quantity of players overall, I'm afraid this means you're stuck with me for a little while longer guys

 

[MUSKETEER]

Cool.. You don't want to make it too easy for me, do you? [big grin]

 

[Lucavex]

Eh, 10-20% more effective loadouts make a huge difference when you're rank 50 going up against a lobby of rank 10 players. Not only do you have the experience to know how to come out on top, you're given the edge in loadout to achieve that even easier. Last night I played games where Musketeer won with zero deaths. Zero. And other players with his ranking frequently did the same. It may not seem like much, but more boosts and tankier shields, even if marginal, give the experienced player a much better chance.

Take Overwatch for instance. (Another game I frequently play). When they make changes to a hero, the change is SO slight 90% of the time. One specific instance, Blizzard slightly increased the distance that a hero's damage falloff starts. I think it was just a few more meters of distance before damage started to fall off. The result? The character was completely broken. People were picking this hero over snipers because the mid-range damage potential was off the charts. Experienced players began to dominate with the hero, doing team wipes with ease. Such a small difference in how the hero operates, not even damage BUFF, but a change in the damage falloff distance threw everything else off balance. Small changes make HUGE differences, especially when the player is experienced. A poor player wouldn't benefit much from a 10-20% advantage over an experienced players. But that same 10-20% advantage when given to experienced players makes them so much more deadly.

I hope I made sense.

That said, I'm not trying to bash any specific player, and there were genuine moments when I was having fun. Heck, I came in 2nd place a few times. With practice I'm sure I could contend with those rank 50 guys, but getting there is an exercise in frustration in the mean time.

 

[MUSKETEER]

Competitive loadout you can get relatively quickly (rank 11)... I'm currently rank 35 and using rank 11 loadout.

First 11 ranks is fairly easy to get.. very low XP required for each rank (600-1150XP), next ranks gradually require higher XP to obtain (i.e. from rank 49 to rank 50 it's 19309XP)

 

[Lucavex]

Competitive loadout you can get relatively quickly (rank 11)... I'm currently rank 35 and using rank 11 loadout.

First 11 ranks is fairly easy to get.. very low XP required for each rank (600-1150XP), next ranks gradually require higher XP to obtain (i.e. from rank 49 to rank 50 it's 19309XP)

I understand your reasoning, but it still feels pretty poor to have to grind to rank 11 to even be on equal footing with you in terms of loadout. It makes it feel like I have to "take my lumps" before I have the chance to stand toe-to-toe with you, even when our experience levels greatly differ. It's like getting jumped into a street gang. You gotta take your beatings before you can REALLY play with the others.

 

[MUSKETEER]

I once was where you are now. So you grind to rank 11 and continue playing CQC.. or you don't.
What else can I say

With every Prestige I get back to rank 1.. so you will have to suffer the same process 9 times or you may choose not to Prestige.
I believe I won my last match where I was rank 1 just after 5th Prestige.. so bog standard rank 1 condor is still capable, you just have to fly it differently.

Experience is the most important in CQC.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Eh, 10-20% more effective loadouts make a huge difference when you're rank 50 going up against a lobby of rank 10 players.

Not in that case, no. Almost anyone casually winning in that situation could have done exactly the same in a stock fighter. I've won in that sort of game with loadouts I've intentionally chosen to be flat-out *worse* than the stock fighter, and I've won them at prestige X rank 1 when all I had was the stock fighter.

Most rank 10 players don't know good pip management (I certainly didn't at that rank!), so it doesn't matter if my shields are 10% stronger on paper than their shields ... when in practice my shields are 250% stronger than their shields because I have 4 pips to SYS under fire and they don't [1]. Their actual shield generator makes next to no difference.

And I mean "10-20% more effective" in the sense of overall effectiveness, not in terms of the actual paper stats. If it's a 750-700 finish, then yes, the ship loadout may have mattered. If it's a 750-250 slaughter, it didn't.

[1] CQC, unlike the main game which changed this back in 2.2.03, still uses an exponential rather than flat boost for SYS pips, so you either have 4 pips or your shields are made of paper.

 

[Lucavex]

Not in that case, no. Almost anyone casually winning in that situation could have done exactly the same in a stock fighter. I've won in that sort of game with loadouts I've intentionally chosen to be flat-out *worse* than the stock fighter, and I've won them at prestige X rank 1 when all I had was the stock fighter.

Most rank 10 players don't know good pip management (I certainly didn't at that rank!), so it doesn't matter if my shields are 10% stronger on paper than their shields ... when in practice my shields are 250% stronger than their shields because I have 4 pips to SYS under fire and they don't [1]. Their actual shield generator makes next to no difference.

And I mean "10-20% more effective" in the sense of overall effectiveness, not in terms of the actual paper stats. If it's a 750-700 finish, then yes, the ship loadout may have mattered. If it's a 750-250 slaughter, it didn't.

[1] CQC, unlike the main game which changed this back in 2.2.03, still uses an exponential rather than flat boost for SYS pips, so you either have 4 pips or your shields are made of paper.

See these are things I wish I knew about CQC. But the lack of a chat function had me going in blind.

 

[MUSKETEER]

Leo in 2nd post mentioned CQC discord.. there you can ask all your questions.

 

[Steph]

There are some names on here who have killed me repeatedly in recent times, good on you!

I'm happy to progress towards getting the system permit at 60XP per game ("Finisher", "Try Harder") The occasonal 50XP bonus for laying a glove on someone helps and the odd 100XP uber-bonus is nice too

 

[MUSKETEER]

There are some names on here who have killed me repeatedly in recent times, good on you!

I'm happy to progress towards getting the system permit at 60XP per game ("Finisher", "Try Harder") The occasonal 50XP bonus for laying a glove on someone helps and the odd 100XP uber-bonus is nice too

That must have been Leo Sagan and Ian Doncaster.. they are the bad ones I don't remember playing with you (killing you).

My first days in CQC were pretty much the same, I was dying a lot.

 

[Leo Sagan]

There are some names on here who have killed me repeatedly in recent times

I'm sorry if I'm amongst those who were killing you repeatedly - not sure though, I do not remember you specifically -. If it was indeed me, please do not take it personally : CQC death match is unfair ( stabbing in the back is one of the most efficient tactics) and matchmaking cannot balance things properly due to the low demographics.

Regarding the matter of loadouts, I can see both sides of the argument.When it comes to excellent players like Musketeer and Doncaster, don't fool yourself : I saw these guys wipe the whole map flying noob ships on too many occasions. That's what they do.
I'm not sure they even notice anymore. There are so many ways to compensate for low level modules when you know what you're doing : power ups, pip management, saving your chaff for a second pass in a joust, luring a noob in a tunnel where they bump into the walls, attacking someone who just chaffed... Target selection alone makes a huge difference...

But to new players, I believe a better load out does make a significant difference too, especially VS other relatively new players. And the game doesn't reward you for killing veterans : a kill is a kill. So yeah you'd probably do better with a rank 50 load out vs new players and this would help your results.

If you're serious about CQC, I strongly suggest you visit the discord server : it will help finding games, it will ease the steep learning curve and the frustration will turn into good fun. I cannot remember anyone making fun of the new players even once in the chat. Honestly it is a happy bunch. And things will get better, you'll learn the ropes. Even a very bad shooter like me sometimes kill the vets : imagine what YOU could achieve

 

[Steph]

I'm sorry if I'm amongst those who were killing you repeatedly - not sure though, I do not remember you specificall

I don't mind at all I get killed all the time

 

[Friendly Alien]

I have just had my first go at CQC. I was trashed. Don't mind that if its about learning how to improve and am prepared to grind a bit. Biggest problem for me has been the amount of aborted queing... I dont have to much time to play ED and would rather spend that time in game than waiting.

 

[Nimitz68]

I have just had my first go at CQC. I was trashed. Don't mind that if its about learning how to improve and am prepared to grind a bit. Biggest problem for me has been the amount of aborted queing... I dont have to much time to play ED and would rather spend that time in game than waiting.

CQC was surprisingly fun for me considering all the bad press, but I was matched against some fellow newbies a lot of the time so that made it manageable. Te 1 or 2 expert level guys wiped us, but that's pretty much par for the course on any online game for me. :/

But the matchmaking WAS tough - just waiting 5-10 mins hoping for a game to start up is not a great use of real life time. Some sort of lobby might help, but maybe I'll check out Discord as a substitute.