Powerplay So If Power Play Should Be Open Only ......

Leadfoot

Leadfoot
Watching the dozen (?) or so threads about PP being moved to Open Mode only and this thought popped into my head, so I'm just tossing this out there.

If a faction wants to UA bomb a station for political gain, should THAT also be "Open Only"?

Reason for the question: If they're UA bombing a station in Solo Mode, there is no way for other players to stop this from happening. Other players should come to the aid of the station by scanning incoming ships for UA's and either chase them away or blast them to atoms.

So, what do you all think? Should UA Bombing (and bringing Meta Alloys to repair) also be an "Open Only" type of thing for the same reasons that PP is being moved into Open Only?

For the energy needed to discuss this topic there's cookies and milk over there. ----- >
 

Muzz UK

Muzz UK
I kind of agree the game SHOULD be open only or at least have higher income and rewards. Look I understand people get ganked and that the crime system still needs work but allowing people to contribute to objectives and background sim uneffected makes no sense. Powerplay surely is this games version of open world PvP.... so how can it be allow in SOLO?

The biggest problem is player education in OPEN. Everyone who gets murdered or ganked is clearly going to the busy high pop systems. I can play for weeks in open and never see another player.
 

Iskariot

Iskariot
Just for the sake of balance: I think the whole damn game should be offline single player :).

But in the current situation, and because I understand that some people love multiplayer, I would already be happy with completely separate Solo and Open games.
For Solo Mode FDev could then finally forget about all that multiplayer balancing nonsense and finally introduce cool stuff like winging with npc, NPC crew, new 'unbalanced' toys and weapons (nukes) and ships etc etc.
Solo would finally become the Elite game I always wanted.

And Open could simply be SpaceCoD without having to compromise.
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
In my opinion UA bombing should be dropped ("starports now have the means to scan for UAs and deny ships with UA the landing rights").

But I think powerplay open only should be the deviation, not the norm, to give PvP in open a meaning.
Switching all things to open only (UA, BGS, CG etc) will divide the playerbase even further than the powerplay open only proposal already did.
 

kofeyh

kofeyh
Frontier has decided to maintain a single universe, with matchmaking used to provide solo, group and open experiences. The endless "but if the game was offline" arguments ignore that a) it isn't and b) after five years it's probably time to move the conversation on.

The thing is, what is UA bombing intended to achieve? Station service lockout. That's technically PVE, but relies on meta-alloy delivery to resolve after the fact. So sure; park UA bombing in open. Which leads to the next question; Meta-alloy deliveries expressly designed to counter the bombing. Which mode? Where do you draw the line?

Powerplay was designed to focus on direct player engagement, and facilitate. UA bombing's sole purpose is to disable station/ ship services. They are both levers, yes. But for which aspect? Players, or the environment? It's an interesting question.

As much as my instinct is UA in Open? This is a bit pandoras box because of UA mitigation being meta-alloys, requires delivery to the station; where do you draw the line? MA delivery in open as well? UAs are going to end up being delivered, regardless of mode. Where it happens won't change that. The ability to prevent, though, opens up a lot of options and perhaps that is sufficient. But it is an interesting question.

None-the-less Frontier electing the line to be powerplay, and only powerplay, is wise. I think it's important to keep the scope of that purposefully limited, given the considerable change it represents. I'd prefer Frontier stay on target.

Lastly? Offline isn't happening; it's never the solution to anything, because it's never been on the table, ergo it doesn't make much sense to offer that as a solution.
 
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tolm

tolm
steve_muzz said:
I kind of agree the game SHOULD be open only or at least have higher income and rewards. Look I understand people get ganked and that the crime system still needs work but allowing people to contribute to objectives and background sim uneffected makes no sense. Powerplay surely is this games version of open world PvP.... so how can it be allow in SOLO?

The biggest problem is player education in OPEN. Everyone who gets murdered or ganked is clearly going to the busy high pop systems. I can play for weeks in open and never see another player.
Click to expand...

Well, by design Power Play was an indirect Player Faction vs Player Faction strategy/influencing game, as evidenced by the fact it has always been available in all game modes - as per the rest of the game content. The fact that FDev now want to repurpose PP as a Combative PvP mechanism is all well and good but that’s fundamentally not what it has been thus far.

As for ganking, what’s the point in playing in Open if you can’t safely go to the popular systems, take part in Community Goals, etc?
 

gooddoc

gooddoc
This is the 'slippery slope' that'll occur when/if FD opens up this can of worms.

First it'll be PP, then it'll be UA bombing, then BGS, etc....

Then eventually the whole game will become an open only gankfest, leaving those of us that that think there's more to a game than pewpew, to move elsewhere for our entertainment.
 

Snarfbuckle

S
steve_muzz said:
I kind of agree the game SHOULD be open only or at least have higher income and rewards. Look I understand people get ganked and that the crime system still needs work but allowing people to contribute to objectives and background sim uneffected makes no sense. Powerplay surely is this games version of open world PvP.... so how can it be allow in SOLO?

The biggest problem is player education in OPEN. Everyone who gets murdered or ganked is clearly going to the busy high pop systems. I can play for weeks in open and never see another player.
Click to expand...

True, the issues lies more in the fact that open, and the game in general lacks a basic ruleset from the Pilot Federation

- There should be LASTING penalties for killing non-wanted SHIPS (regardless of PVE or PVE target) since it's a crime either way
- The Pilot Federation should allow for Commanders to engage in warfare when aligned to larger factions (it's a big universe after all)
- The Pilot Federation should forbid ANY hostilities WITHIN THEIR OWN HQ SYSTEM WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE! ( i mean, seriously, it's like going to a convention of like minded people and then random people starts ganging up and killing off each other...)

And here's a little controversial idea.

- Allow ELITE Combat Rating to be fluid (it can go up and down depending on your actions)

- Attacking a non-wanted Commander that is NOT aligned with any PP faction should count NEGATIVE to the combat elite rating when outside an Anarchy system (because the Pilot Federation sets their pilot to a HIGHER standard than shooting fish in a barrel in an ambush...)

- Create a "combat rating" pitting insurance cost X Elite combat rank VS the opponents values to calculate if the other target is a more difficult target worthy of engaging (after all, to become a BETTER pilot we should fight someone more DIFFICULT...right?)

- Allow pilots to "ping" each other as a challenge when in lawful systems where they would NORMALLY not be allowed to fight to be able to, well, duel.

- Wings attacking a target should tally their total value vs the targets value to calculate if they would get a positive or negative Elite Combat rating point on a kill.
 

kofeyh

kofeyh
gooddoc said:
This is the 'slippery slope' that'll occur when/if FD opens up this can of worms.
Click to expand...

Frontier have specifically, and only indicated powerplay. My personal preference is that change, and only that change be considered. Because that mechanic is player driven; UA bombing is a seperate concern, and should be considered as such. Folks are muddying the waters in the rush to try to win arguments, rather than solve issues, imho.
 

Threeofseven

Threeofseven
Leadfoot said:
Watching the dozen (?) or so threads about PP being moved to Open Mode only and this thought popped into my head, so I'm just tossing this out there.

If a faction wants to UA bomb a station for political gain, should THAT also be "Open Only"?

Reason for the question: If they're UA bombing a station in Solo Mode, there is no way for other players to stop this from happening. Other players should come to the aid of the station by scanning incoming ships for UA's and either chase them away or blast them to atoms.

So, what do you all think? Should UA Bombing (and bringing Meta Alloys to repair) also be an "Open Only" type of thing for the same reasons that PP is being moved into Open Only?

For the energy needed to discuss this topic there's cookies and milk over there. ----- >
Click to expand...

The best solution, one that would make just about everyone happy, would be to separate the servers and bgs between solo / PG and open. However, that's not going to happen so open only Power Play is the best alternative. Making UA bombing open only would actually be a good idea as well.
 

kofeyh

kofeyh
Snarfbuckle said:
True, the issues lies more in the fact that open, and the game in general lacks a basic ruleset from the Pilot Federation.
Click to expand...

Which has very little, if anything to do with either UA (which is ostensibly environmental impact) or Powerplay (which is ostensibly player driven engagement) and is precisely the muddying of waters I referred to above. Powerplay actually has a very solid set of rules; however commanders aren't compelled to follow any 'rules' the in-game mechanics provide. Powerplay, like almost everything else, is optional.

Frontier have proposed powerplay, and only powerplay, be shifted. This is the change I support. Is there merit moving UA bombing to Open? Sure. However I believe that deserves some reasoned thought, and not be some sort of kitchen-sink outcome; aka scope creep.
 
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gooddoc

gooddoc
kofeyh said:
Frontier have specifically, and only indicated powerplay. My personal preference is that change, and only that change be considered. Because that mechanic is player driven; UA bombing is a seperate concern, and should be considered as such. Folks are muddying the waters in the rush to try to win arguments, rather than solve issues, imho.
Click to expand...

And we all know how true to their word & honest they are;)
 

Iskariot

Iskariot
Snarfbuckle said:
True, the issues lies more in the fact that open, and the game in general lacks a basic ruleset from the Pilot Federation

- There should be LASTING penalties for killing non-wanted SHIPS (regardless of PVE or PVE target) since it's a crime either way
- The Pilot Federation should allow for Commanders to engage in warfare when aligned to larger factions (it's a big universe after all)
- The Pilot Federation should forbid ANY hostilities WITHIN THEIR OWN HQ SYSTEM WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE! ( i mean, seriously, it's like going to a convention of like minded people and then random people starts ganging up and killing off each other...)

And here's a little controversial idea.

- Allow ELITE Combat Rating to be fluid (it can go up and down depending on your actions)

- Attacking a non-wanted Commander that is NOT aligned with any PP faction should count NEGATIVE to the combat elite rating when outside an Anarchy system (because the Pilot Federation sets their pilot to a HIGHER standard than shooting fish in a barrel in an ambush...)

- Create a "combat rating" pitting insurance cost X Elite combat rank VS the opponents values to calculate if the other target is a more difficult target worthy of engaging (after all, to become a BETTER pilot we should fight someone more DIFFICULT...right?)

- Allow pilots to "ping" each other as a challenge when in lawful systems where they would NORMALLY not be allowed to fight to be able to, well, duel.

- Wings attacking a target should tally their total value vs the targets value to calculate if they would get a positive or negative Elite Combat rating point on a kill.
Click to expand...

I surprise myself in agreeing with all your ideas. I really like them.
I would even like my combat rating to go down if I killed innocent npc ships. I think such a dynamic would make my existence in the Elite galaxy much more interesting.
 

PeLucheuh

PeLucheuh
Leadfoot said:
Watching the dozen (?) or so threads about PP being moved to Open Mode only and this thought popped into my head, so I'm just tossing this out there.

If a faction wants to UA bomb a station for political gain, should THAT also be "Open Only"?

Reason for the question: If they're UA bombing a station in Solo Mode, there is no way for other players to stop this from happening. Other players should come to the aid of the station by scanning incoming ships for UA's and either chase them away or blast them to atoms.

So, what do you all think? Should UA Bombing (and bringing Meta Alloys to repair) also be an "Open Only" type of thing for the same reasons that PP is being moved into Open Only?

For the energy needed to discuss this topic there's cookies and milk over there. ----- >
Click to expand...

That is similar concern as to why PP should be open only.

At the moment, for UA bombing and PP, players can only counter other players effect of actions. In other words, the only way to counter an UA bomb is being forced to hauling meta alloy in order to counter the effect, not the player doing the UA bomb.

By moving it to Open only, it will allow players to directly counter other players actions instead of only players effects. It will offer more possibilities without removing existing ones.

Yes for UA bombing in Open only as well.
 
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