I kind of think this game serves as a good lesson to everyone (developers/gamers) why procedural generation is really no substitute for actual design, at least not yet. I'd be ok with samey procedural missions/systems for vast majority of space. But the game really just needs a few focused systems that influence the rest of the galaxy, but that requires "handcrafting" alot more stuff which I dont think was their development intentions ever.
So is this the extent of wars, NPCs, the background simulation & persistence?
- Thread starter Johnny Spaceboots
- Start date
I agree with OP completely. I`d just add that, in my opinion, the USS system needs to be remodelled, if not removed completely. It still feels like a placeholder beta mechanic, and it is to the game`s detriment. I do not think that the basic concepts behind the game are flawed, but the execution most certainly is where NPCs are concerned. Hopefully this will be rectified in the next few months, but until then this game will be merely good instead of great, as we all hoped it would be.
Excellent OP and couldn't agree more.
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Dwarf Fortress is a great example for comparison also. Dwarf Fortress's development process has been solely focused on depth of gameplay, dynamism and immersion into the simulation, at the massive detriment to the graphical side.
Elite Dangerous seems to have focused a lot more on the graphical side to the detriment of the depth of the simulation.
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Different strokes for different folks of course, but being an old school gamer I've always favoured depth of gameplay over graphics.
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Dwarf Fortress is a great example for comparison also. Dwarf Fortress's development process has been solely focused on depth of gameplay, dynamism and immersion into the simulation, at the massive detriment to the graphical side.
Elite Dangerous seems to have focused a lot more on the graphical side to the detriment of the depth of the simulation.
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Different strokes for different folks of course, but being an old school gamer I've always favoured depth of gameplay over graphics.
I agree totally about the USS system employed by FD. It is extremely irritating and unimmersive to be interdicted on many occasions by NPCs when you are exploring somewhere near the Orion Nebula. Of course USS sites can serve a purpose as locations for faction battles etc. But not for one lone Sidewinder hanging about hoping "player one" will show up, so the NPC can relay some information that would have been far more immersive if delivered in the bulletin boards at a station. Or even if the player got a transmissions saying go to location 'X' for some mission critical info. The current USS system just feels so contrived.
Make all the NPCs have a purpose and reason for existing. It would be far more immersive if ALL the NPCs left stations and traveled to other systems to dock with stations there. Why are NPCs sitting around in deep space waiting for me as a player to show up? They have absolutely no purpose being there and it feels so contrived. At least at the Star Nav Points they seem to be coming and going with some sense of purpose.
I do still find fun in this game, I love the combat mechanics but the feeling of being part of a massive evolving universe just isn't there right now.
Make all the NPCs have a purpose and reason for existing. It would be far more immersive if ALL the NPCs left stations and traveled to other systems to dock with stations there. Why are NPCs sitting around in deep space waiting for me as a player to show up? They have absolutely no purpose being there and it feels so contrived. At least at the Star Nav Points they seem to be coming and going with some sense of purpose.
I do still find fun in this game, I love the combat mechanics but the feeling of being part of a massive evolving universe just isn't there right now.
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Not sure where you misunderstood my statement. Its not about "bug-free" at all. I have a handful of games in alpha-release that are buggy but splendid (think Kerbal, Space Engineers, 7dtd, Prison Architect).
As we see on the forum the price for the game being released pre-maturely is that many fundamental systems arent working properly. (bounties, NPC isntancing, relations, trading balance, the mythical "background simulation", etc - pretty much everything that blongs to the deeper gameplay beyond grinding money to get higher tiered ships.)
And beyond that the Devs currently keep total silence about how some of those things should work, what should be possible and any kind of roadmap for the next/future additions.
Ok, they are bugfixing, but its not that its a 3-man-basement-team. I expect more on the PR side from such a professional company.
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Apparently we'll be hearing more about the future come the new year. I certainly hope so, and I hope it's significant. I'd say deepening the simulation should take priority over FPS, personally.
bumping for discussion
Hi All - you have raised some good points in this thread and I think do highlight some of the shortcomings in the current build. Seems they have tried to piece this all together in time for a premature release. Many things feel like placeholders.
I think I am still in that honeymoon period myself but can already see the copy/paste feel of each system being the same. I am concerned at how long this current setup will continue to keep me interested and that is as someone who never really played the betas (as I wanted to play the complete product). Doesn't feel at all organic, just random. Even down to many of the trade goods and quantities being the same system after system, same things expected in each USS I visit which also seem to be random and not part of the world as such. I've just been aimlessly going from system to system to try to find interesting things but other than the conflict zone I haven't found anything unique yet. The current version feels more like the old Elites, with little evolution in the last 2-3 decades and I think gamers do expect much more these days.
Any rate, I am sure time will tell, I have 3 weeks off after new years to give this a serious go. I will say if I am still interested after that I will probably be here for the long haul but otherwise I might find myself coming back maybe 2016-17 when there has been more time to develop. Great start still, so much I do like about the game and as a huge fan I am staying patient .. but that patience will only go so far before I pull up stumps. I really want to stay positive... but fear that this is 'it' pretty much at its core and is starting to set in from my earlier 50hrs of play in the last couple of weeks.
Sure there will be more improvements, more content, more balancing, more expansions in the years to come but will it be too little too late is what I am wondering??
Take care.
I think I am still in that honeymoon period myself but can already see the copy/paste feel of each system being the same. I am concerned at how long this current setup will continue to keep me interested and that is as someone who never really played the betas (as I wanted to play the complete product). Doesn't feel at all organic, just random. Even down to many of the trade goods and quantities being the same system after system, same things expected in each USS I visit which also seem to be random and not part of the world as such. I've just been aimlessly going from system to system to try to find interesting things but other than the conflict zone I haven't found anything unique yet. The current version feels more like the old Elites, with little evolution in the last 2-3 decades and I think gamers do expect much more these days.
Any rate, I am sure time will tell, I have 3 weeks off after new years to give this a serious go. I will say if I am still interested after that I will probably be here for the long haul but otherwise I might find myself coming back maybe 2016-17 when there has been more time to develop. Great start still, so much I do like about the game and as a huge fan I am staying patient .. but that patience will only go so far before I pull up stumps. I really want to stay positive... but fear that this is 'it' pretty much at its core and is starting to set in from my earlier 50hrs of play in the last couple of weeks.
Sure there will be more improvements, more content, more balancing, more expansions in the years to come but will it be too little too late is what I am wondering??
Take care.
That's what I'm worried about. That everybody will have lost interest by the time Frontier makes the game into something truly special, or if they lose interest too soon so Frontier has to give up due to money. I have to say, I've been having a decent amount of fun, but the random meaningless missions, reputation system, killing the same guy with the same name on the same mission over and over and over again, with meaningless conflict zones... It's starting to wear thin.