So lets talk about the instancing and networking for Elite Dangerous.

Cosmos

C
Hi Everyone,

I'm really invested in Elite Dangerous and have been from the start when I backed it heavily. Over the years I've felt it necessary to say a few things, motivated by the best intentions for the game, which have probably not made me a favourite at Frontier HQ. I'll accept not being loved like a flatterer, and I think we can all make judgements about those people amongst us, but I'm growing a little concerned about the subject of this thread.

We are now six months down the line since the game was released and have just received power-play which I am really buzzed for but there is a huge problematic issue with the game that still persists.

The instancing and networking element of ED are pretty sub standard imo. I've lost count of the amount of times I try to send a friend a text message only to be told there was an error in communication. Why is it so hard, even now, to securely get in game with friends and not be in an isolated instance of our own. Anyone playing ED couldn't have missed all of this.

Tonight was a real bummer.. Had friends being attacked by a player, we were in a Wing, I zoned in and couldn't see the guy to target. My buddies appeared to be firing at nothing, couldn't help.. We've likely all seen these sort of issues but question I want to ask: is this is still acceptable?

Might we be better moving to a client server architecture? As far as I am concerned the instancing and networking in ED is pants :(

What do you guys think?

edit: for the record I am loving the game in many ways since PP was released, I just think the instancing is letting the game down a tad ;)
 
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bossbrigand

B
I would like to think that a client server architecture is possible but I'm not sure it's within FD's budget. It wouldn't be cheap to operate a farm of the necessary size.
 

Cosmos

C
bossbrigand said:
I would like to think that a client server architecture is possible but I'm not sure it's within FD's budget. It wouldn't be cheap to operate a farm of the necessary size.
Click to expand...

Its likely a fair point but I'd be interested in understanding those costs. Are they really that big? Nevertheless even with a p2p system are we happy with the present situ?
 
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Roybe

Roybe
Cosmos said:
Its likely a fair point but I'd be interested in understanding those costs. Are they really that big? Nevertheless even with a p2p system are we happy with the present situ?
Click to expand...

The cost to codes is probably more significant than P2P...the other issue with space sims is the distances and speeds you travel...a client/server based system is not going to cut it....the lag would be to big for the whole world to play on it.

Pretty sure SC is doing something similar....I know their instance sizes are currently identical...it's just they are handling the instances differently...
 

medwyn

M
Cosmos said:
Hi Everyone,

I'm really invested in Elite Dangerous and have been from the start when I backed it heavily. Over the years I've felt it necessary to say a few things, motivated by the best intentions for the game, which have probably not made me a favourite at Frontier HQ. I'll accept not being loved like a flatterer, and I think we can all make judgements about those people amongst us, but I'm growing a little concerned about the subject of this thread.

We are now six months down the line since the game was released and have just received power-play which I am really buzzed for but there is a huge problematic issue with the game that still persists.

The instancing and networking element of ED are pretty sub standard imo. I've lost count of the amount of times I try to send a friend a text message only to be told there was an error in communication. Why is it so hard, even now, to securely get in game with friends and not be in an isolated instance of our own. Anyone playing ED couldn't have missed all of this.

Tonight was a real bummer.. Had friends being attacked by a player, we were in a Wing, I zoned in and couldn't see the guy to target. My buddies appeared to be firing at nothing, couldn't help.. We've likely all seen these sort of issues but question I want to ask: is this is still acceptable?

Might we be better moving to a client server architecture? As far as I am concerned the instancing and networking in ED is pants :(

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

Fundamental questions and they are there on the table from the very begining. Unfortunately this appears to be a serious bottleneck in many areas of development with buzz-killer effects on gameplay.
I wish FD would have taken on this challenge to make their revolution about this issue rather than on the magical 400 billion. A solid architecture could warrant a futureprooof game, now it's doubtful.
 
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stripealipe

stripealipe
Agreed, the instancing is a complete pain and killing the interactive and immersive side of coop gameplay for myself and our group.
Lots of 'unable to connect to CMDR' messages when sending a text. Problems getting people into a wing and then into the same instance in space. Players in a wing unable to see enemies etc....

All kinda key to playing and all kinda flaky at the moment... Was really hoping this was somehow going to get tweaked in 1.3.....
 

Zelos1983

Z
bossbrigand said:
I would like to think that a client server architecture is possible but I'm not sure it's within FD's budget. It wouldn't be cheap to operate a farm of the necessary size.
Click to expand...

It would be relatively easy to release the server code and migrate it to client/server. That way, friends can setup their own stuff and play with each other uninterrupted.

Also, this would enable the players to choose the time of new releases, so they wouldn't end up not being able to play for a weekend. Therefore it would take a lot of pressure from Frontier.
 

Deleted member 38366

D
--- Deleted ---
 
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Munial

Munial
Since FD are in bed with Microsoft couldn't they help with the power of teh cloud? In all seriousness? Could be an E3 announce?! (wishfiul thinking) I have no concept of what kind of work would be involved in moving over to dedicated servers, I've read a lot of comments implying its impossible due to the way the game is setup - but I doubt MS would stand for shonky networking on the xbox version considering everyone pays for it..
 

Dweezle

D
Cosmos said:
Its likely a fair point but I'd be interested in understanding those costs. Are they really that big? Nevertheless even with a p2p system are we happy with the present situ?
Click to expand...

This is my biggest issue with the game. I have been playing for 6 weeks and have yet to get into a battle with other players, in a wing. I will sometimes go to a system, find several people, then get interdicted, then pop back into Supercruise to find no one. Then I go into real space and then back into Supercruise, and the same people are back.

We need the ability to send emails to anyone; send comms to anyone; and trust that instancing will combine as many people together as logically possible.

- - - Updated - - -

Roybe said:
The cost to codes is probably more significant than P2P...the other issue with space sims is the distances and speeds you travel...a client/server based system is not going to cut it....the lag would be to big for the whole world to play on it.
Click to expand...

They don't have to build a different architecture since we know that this method works -- sometimes. They just need a way to ensure that clients are seeing everyone they are supposed to see, and that as many people as logically possible, are being included in the list. If 32 is the number of people allowed in an instance, then when there are 32 people in an area, they should all be able to see each other. The game actually feels like they try to keep as many people separate as they can. I don't think I've ever seen more than 8 or 9 people in an instance, even in the busiest systems.
 

Hellhawk666

Hellhawk666
Yes. It's undeniably a problem for many players. I can play fine for hours as long as I'm alone in open mode, but on the occasions I've tried to coordinate meeting up with mates to form a wing and do stuff together it's been constantly problematic, and we all live in the same city and have good connections. One friend has stopped playing altogether as the group play aspect was his main interest.

Besides instancing I bet there are a lot of ways in which the choice of architecture and associated network issues dictate the game design.
 

CMDR Derrida

C
Yes agreed about the instances...very frustrating if a wingman is being attacked by players when it happens. In a way it's a shame they nerfed (or debugged) that way of getting to your wingman really quickly - where you merely dropped out of supercruise, navlocked and jumped again to get straight to where your wingman was, without having to be in range..we used to call it the wingman teleport...
 

Aewarin Jameson

Aewarin Jameson
Cosmos said:
What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

IMO:

  • This thread was opened 2 days ago and has mustered 16 replies. Either it's been buried and missed or the active forum users do not see this as a problem for them.

  • The people who this is mainly going to affect are the PvP crowd as you actively seek each other out and those who wish to fly with friends. Personally I haven't had any issues with meeting people but I add that with a caveat : I don't actively try to group with people I know (friends list) and simply limit it to whomever the background sim deems suitable. There may well be a problem but I, and thousands like me, are simply unaware. Sometimes texts don't go through to friends but it doesn't bother me that much.

  • The costs to convert the back end from P2P to P2S would need to be shouldered by someone and I can assure you that would be us. How, exactly, I do not know but I an tell you that if FD tried to make this move a lot of backers / players would rise up in arms. (You thought offline-gate was bad ;))

  • The next project on the horizon from FD is to integrate console users (XBox1) and they already have a peering network setup. Maybe it's simpler for them to do this as they already host games via P2P without major issues and once they are online it could help with understanding why it sometimes fails for PC users.

FD really should develop an application that tests the suitability of ED for people's home network. A stripped down client that tests connections to a central server (that is acting like another client) and posts results for the user to check & upload telemetry for FD to help diagnose the problems. This could help users help themselves too as P2P networking relies upon certain things that the average Joe won't know nor understand:

- Your PC itself needs to be configured correctly for uPnP (if you're using that method)
- Your router needs to support uPnP or be configured correctly for port-forwarding

Sounds simple ... which it is when it works ;)

(When I build machines I tweak them to enhance the security which tends to break things when you're doing something unconventional like P2P networking- only by using a 3rd party uPnP test app did I find issues with my computer which frankly FD should have included themselves - the responsibility is on FD to help the end user as much as possible to avoid a PR nightmare.)
 
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Kiam McCue

K
This is getting extremely annoying im sad to say i cant recommend this game to my mates because in its current state i would NEVER SEE THEM!
 

MJC

MJC
Instancing in ED. LOL. Ahi. :)
Where do I start:
Invisible Cmdrs, Combat loggers, Shield hackers, pvp groups (wings) who cant see each other to have a scrap.
I have played ED for 1 year now since beta and I have just about had enough. I would love to have a group fight with 2-3 guilds - a 50 Cmdr pvp fight but that is impossible with current instancing (or even 20). See reddit posts...
All I can say is Frontier and First Encounters are superior in content to this game and instancing is a joke. MMO aspect is a joke. Exploration is a joke. Smuggling is a joke. Piracy is a joke. And the fanboys still cant see that the game is dying slowly but surely.
I no longer care actually - I saw the gameplay for Witcher 3. Time to go back to some good ol` RPG and proper gaming...

P2P foundation made sure that this game would never reach its full potential - too late to change that now.
 
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