on a side note, you might have to high wake (no mass lock then) i am starting to think of NPCs like i would a real life player....I'm wondering if there might be a problem...
I was doing a mission to retrieve a data capsule, and on my way back to the station got interdicted by a high ranking Python (I was in an "A" rated Python, with two shield booters). We fought it out for a while, and I had his shields down and hull around 75%. I had also taken some hull damage, but less than him (I think I was around 84%). He then jumped out so I couldn't finish him off.
As soon as I went back into supercruise, he came back and interdicted me, but he had full shields and hull. So, that's not right eh? Unless there is some magic hull repair module I'm not aware of.
So, I decided to leg it, since the fight didn't seem fair if he could jump in and out with damage repaired, but I could not get away. Even with 4 pips to engines and constant boosting he continued to fire constantly without any break, while staying within 1.5 or so km. There was just nothing I could do. I was eventually able to jump away (I was mass locked), but he interdicted me almost immediately again. This happened several times until he ended up destroying my ship.
I might also mention, as I was in a Fed system, there was no response from any security vessels during all this - so I was on my own. I did notice something like this in one of the early betas, where some npc's seemed almost god-like at times.
Anyway, on the chance this is a bug I did report it. Where can I get me one of those magic hull repair kits I wonder...
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Seriously, this is why I wouldn't want SJA's job for all the tea in China. Everyone has been whining about the crap AI for 6 months. She finally delivers an AI that is genuinely challenging, & now those same people are whining about how hard combat now is. Meanwhile, hardcore players are complaining that the AI got nerfed. From experience, my view is that neither viewpoint is accurate-Lower skilled NPC's are still fairly easy to take down, whilst the more skilled NPC's are now a real challenge. My advice is try to adapt your play style, instead of thinking your previous play style (of the last 6 months or so) will suffice.
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Then don't do it that way. Fortunately, changes to system state seriously impacts the buy & sell levels of specific commodities......so try and ply different trade routes based on system states instead. So if you see a system in Outbreak, take basic & advanced medicines there, as you're sure to make a huge quantity of credits.
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Then don't do it that way. Fortunately, changes to system state seriously impacts the buy & sell levels of specific commodities......so try and ply different trade routes based on system states instead. So if you see a system in Outbreak, take basic & advanced medicines there, as you're sure to make a huge quantity of credits.
Sarah Jane is my MoM! i love her!
I drop int a Conflict zone in my -A rated Dropship, barely pick a side and cant even flee fast enough to escape before getting DESTROYED... TWICE... IN LESS THAN A MINUTE...
If this is Their Idea of making it better I'm done!
If this is Their Idea of making it better I'm done!
Man, this thread.
Anyway, I'll just throw my own story in here.
Stacked three missions for the local CZ in my home system of Kadu Mist, using my maxed FAS. I got utterly crushed by Cobras and ASP Scouts hurling missile after missile and spamming infinite chaff. When I finally did manage to get the few ships I fought off down to reasonable damage, they jumped out of the CZ and denied me the kills. I've been strictly BH'ing and combat piloting since OG Beta and I absolutely have to say, your mindset and the way you modify your ship utterly has to change if you hope to stand a chance against this new AI. I lost 2 million credits from two different rebuys. I'm not really complaining about this, though, because it's mostly my fault for taking the new AI too lightly.
However...
The one thing that bothers me the most about this new AI isn't the difficulty, it's how utterly goddamn boring the dogfights themselves are, now.
All smaller ships do is boost out of your range, U-Turn back in your direction and bee-line it right at you. This is the exact kind of "jousting" style combat that I could've sworn FD was looking to avoid with their flight system.
Frankly, I enjoyed the fights way more before this new adjustment. I'm all for great difficulty (I'm a HUGE Dark Souls fan), and I love the fact that combat ratings actually MEAN something this time around, and I definitely appreciate the AI improvements overall, but I'd rather be destroyed again and again than just be bored with my favorite thing about this game. I'm going to downgrade to a Viper Mk. III and see if I can find the fun again while keeping my assets intact, Class 3 Multicannons bedamned.
Anyway, I'll just throw my own story in here.
Stacked three missions for the local CZ in my home system of Kadu Mist, using my maxed FAS. I got utterly crushed by Cobras and ASP Scouts hurling missile after missile and spamming infinite chaff. When I finally did manage to get the few ships I fought off down to reasonable damage, they jumped out of the CZ and denied me the kills. I've been strictly BH'ing and combat piloting since OG Beta and I absolutely have to say, your mindset and the way you modify your ship utterly has to change if you hope to stand a chance against this new AI. I lost 2 million credits from two different rebuys. I'm not really complaining about this, though, because it's mostly my fault for taking the new AI too lightly.
However...
The one thing that bothers me the most about this new AI isn't the difficulty, it's how utterly goddamn boring the dogfights themselves are, now.
All smaller ships do is boost out of your range, U-Turn back in your direction and bee-line it right at you. This is the exact kind of "jousting" style combat that I could've sworn FD was looking to avoid with their flight system.
Frankly, I enjoyed the fights way more before this new adjustment. I'm all for great difficulty (I'm a HUGE Dark Souls fan), and I love the fact that combat ratings actually MEAN something this time around, and I definitely appreciate the AI improvements overall, but I'd rather be destroyed again and again than just be bored with my favorite thing about this game. I'm going to downgrade to a Viper Mk. III and see if I can find the fun again while keeping my assets intact, Class 3 Multicannons bedamned.
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I find myself growing concerned. I'm not interested in playing as a combat pilot. I'm a trader and explorer. My ship is NOT geared for hardcore combat, and while I consider myself a decent pilot, I've already found the AI quite challenging. If the AI is going to be ramped up as much as I'm seeing described, then I'm simply not going to be able to play.
It comes down to that. If you make it too difficult, you will lose players. Sometimes easier is better.
It comes down to that. If you make it too difficult, you will lose players. Sometimes easier is better.
Why? Do you think that "boost boost jump" suddenly stopped working? There is NO danger for explorers at all. Traders - well, their cows may be a tad too slow, but I heard that pirates now accept cargo and stop attacking, so everything's valid.
I would have to take a look at how that is done. I've done all my trading by looking up profitable trade routes with third party apps. One reason I don't like trading was trying to figure out where to trade what.
What I did enjoy was missions where I could haul cargo long distances. Had fun doing that when I could find such missions. So often I would spend an hour flying somewhere and either my rank is wrong, I am in the wrong ship, don't have enough cargo space, only smuggling missions available, or no missions etc. It hasn't been easy to find the types of missions you do enjoy doing. I am hoping this update might change that. If it takes you an hour or two flying around and there is nothing to do when you get there it can be disappointing.
The update just finished downloading but I doubt I will use any of my expensive ships. The AI sounds quite deadly now and a few rebuys in my Conda would do some serious damage to my bank balance. I have plenty of other ships to chose from so I think I will stick the low insurance ones. Probably won't have room for any cargo on those because I will need to be armed to the teeth and sounds like the enemy will have modules that I do not. Might not be able to fly the ships I would like to use but I will try to find a use for the ones I can.
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Wow! Just tried it out and did one mission. Haven't run into the new AI yet but the game looks amazing! Elite always looked good but it looks and even sounds better now. Took my Courier out for a spin and all my senses started tingling again.
Not sure about the AI yet and am going to play it careful at first and test things out but I like the visual changes and new mission system. I might end up not enjoying certain changes but that was a fun trip even though nothing happened. Will find out sooner or later if my skills are able to handle what is thrown at me.
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Yep AI is kick ass now!
It is a lot tougher, and some ships seem to perform miracle turns- hello Master Anaconda vs A rated Python...
I foresee myself sticking 2 class 3 pulse turrets on the damn thing when i`m out and about doing "Engineer stuff"... or grabbing the Anaconda and doing it.,.hmm
Fun times, but the AI may need a small tweak to prevent boom and zoom fight styles... Small ships GRR ANNOYING LITTLE BLIGHTERS!
Fly safe out there and watch your 6!
Same here.. I've been playing ED since beta, have managed to slowly get a decent fleet of ships together, in the last couple of months I finally worked my way up to a decently specced Python which could take down single 'condas in RES's.. After the update I'm now being interdicted all the time. The weapons fitted to the NPC's seem be be much more effective than anything I've got (either that or my shields have been replaced with toilet roll).
OK, so I'll upgrade my shields; so I plan to go off to the use the Engineer's, but find that Soontill relics aren't around any more and seemingly that Meta-Alloys no longer drop.
So, I put my Python back in it's 'box' and bring out my explorer's ASP (pretty much everything is 'D' rated apart from FSD) thinking I'll have a go at some trading missions. Again, interdicted all the time - by an Elite Anaconda - this for 16 atmospheric processors.. And boosting away doesn't work - the NPC's are STRAIGHT on you after an interdiction.
The only option left for me now is to go explore and hope that some balance is restored.
I would understand the NPC behaviour if it was in anarchy systems, but this seems to be following me everywhere.
Nope, remember this is also a foundation for the commanders, crewmen, fighters etc. Get a ship you can afford to lose, then go practices.
This is how it was supposed to be, from the very beginning.
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Can I feel ridiculously smug about my furious combat avoidance to keep my rank down now?
Only used to be the elite NPCs that were any struggle, took that as a big phat warning sign that things were going to change.... Might be thinking about a reset at this point if I'd gone for Elite ranking via NPC kills - my fights with anything Dangerous and above have been exactly what they said on the tin. Harsh - but no way I could complain and some nice flying from them
Only used to be the elite NPCs that were any struggle, took that as a big phat warning sign that things were going to change.... Might be thinking about a reset at this point if I'd gone for Elite ranking via NPC kills - my fights with anything Dangerous and above have been exactly what they said on the tin. Harsh - but no way I could complain and some nice flying from them
This all sounds great to me ... it's about time there was a challenge in ED ... Previously against NPC's it was just, get a Vulture .... win.
Now having to check security levels, NPC skill levels and actually having to pick your fights! ..
It's AWSEOME ! ... thanks FD and thanks SJA (MoM)
Now having to check security levels, NPC skill levels and actually having to pick your fights! ..
It's AWSEOME ! ... thanks FD and thanks SJA (MoM)
This is they key now... eyes open!
System security status and NPC combat ranking are now just as important (maybe even more) than what sort of ship they are flying. At the end.of the day though they're still NPC's and still predictable. Give it a few days and learn their tricks and you'll be kicking their behinds again. The beta players had the same culture shock as you're having now and we got over it pretty quick.
Sigh... So first we get everyone complaining that the NPCs are to easy and the combat in the game is a snooze fest. Now we get everyone complaining that the NPCs are too hard and that they should be dumbed down...
Ladies and gentlemen, the NPCs are not too hard. The problem is, that since they were so easy before (everything from escaping an interdiction to killing an Elite conda), that even those among us rated "Elite" aren't really that Elite. My point being, that we developed the skills necessary to kill the NPCs as they were, and we now have to develop the skills to kill them as they are now.
Please, let's not start complaining and have FD dumb the hell out of NPCs again. I understand those of you that are not combat pilots, and I am sure that with a fresh release there are kinks to be worked out. However, just like us combat pilots have to retrain ourselves to fight the improved NPCs, those of you that do not do combat will have to retrain yourselves to learn to survive against such NPCs.
And for those that are like "But I was in an A rated conda, and I am Elite ranked, and I'm a decent pilot, etc etc". I repeat: The development of your skills were limited and reached a plateau with the previous NPCs. It's time to improve those skills further now.
I fly a Fer De Lance. Normally, I can even handle a wing of 5 NPCs in a Hazardous zone, possibly including two condas among them. With this patch, I knew I needed to be careful, so I went to a HIGH RES to test the waters.
I found a wing of two: A Cobra MKIII and a Vulture. I decided to attack them and see what the new NPCs were all about. Needless to say, THANK YOU FRONTIER. Holy crap, those two NPCs felt almost like two humans talking to each other and coordinating. It's like they knew they had the smaller, less powerful ships, so they resorted to hit and run tactics. Not to mention, they tried hard to stay on my blind side, as if they knew that my maneuverability isn't as good as theirs. They also made sure to stay on opposite sides of my ship (so they tried to keep me in between them. Pincer attack?) After a few, interesting, exciting minutes and more than two or three shield cells and Chaffs, I killed them. (They were ranked Dangerous and Master, respectively).
Then I found a single Python. This was also a very interesting fight. However, it was over actually quicker than the previous one (Dangerous Python). It still proved to be a challenge, and I had to pop a shield cell or two, but I killed it without taking any actual damage.
Basically, NPCs in smaller ships will take advantage of their maneuverability. Which is great. NPCs in bigger ships will take advantage of their firepower.
Personally, this is how the game was meant to be from the beginning. Frontier finally added the "Dangerous" aspect to it. And I hope with all my heart that they don't dumb down the AI, no matter how much people whine about it. I don't mean to be rude, but if anyone wants "easy peasy NPCs that drop dead and provide no challenge", go play another game, but don't try to ruin this one for the majority of us who actually enjoy it and have been wanting a challenge since the beginning.
Ladies and gentlemen, the NPCs are not too hard. The problem is, that since they were so easy before (everything from escaping an interdiction to killing an Elite conda), that even those among us rated "Elite" aren't really that Elite. My point being, that we developed the skills necessary to kill the NPCs as they were, and we now have to develop the skills to kill them as they are now.
Please, let's not start complaining and have FD dumb the hell out of NPCs again. I understand those of you that are not combat pilots, and I am sure that with a fresh release there are kinks to be worked out. However, just like us combat pilots have to retrain ourselves to fight the improved NPCs, those of you that do not do combat will have to retrain yourselves to learn to survive against such NPCs.
And for those that are like "But I was in an A rated conda, and I am Elite ranked, and I'm a decent pilot, etc etc". I repeat: The development of your skills were limited and reached a plateau with the previous NPCs. It's time to improve those skills further now.
I fly a Fer De Lance. Normally, I can even handle a wing of 5 NPCs in a Hazardous zone, possibly including two condas among them. With this patch, I knew I needed to be careful, so I went to a HIGH RES to test the waters.
I found a wing of two: A Cobra MKIII and a Vulture. I decided to attack them and see what the new NPCs were all about. Needless to say, THANK YOU FRONTIER. Holy crap, those two NPCs felt almost like two humans talking to each other and coordinating. It's like they knew they had the smaller, less powerful ships, so they resorted to hit and run tactics. Not to mention, they tried hard to stay on my blind side, as if they knew that my maneuverability isn't as good as theirs. They also made sure to stay on opposite sides of my ship (so they tried to keep me in between them. Pincer attack?) After a few, interesting, exciting minutes and more than two or three shield cells and Chaffs, I killed them. (They were ranked Dangerous and Master, respectively).
Then I found a single Python. This was also a very interesting fight. However, it was over actually quicker than the previous one (Dangerous Python). It still proved to be a challenge, and I had to pop a shield cell or two, but I killed it without taking any actual damage.
Basically, NPCs in smaller ships will take advantage of their maneuverability. Which is great. NPCs in bigger ships will take advantage of their firepower.
Personally, this is how the game was meant to be from the beginning. Frontier finally added the "Dangerous" aspect to it. And I hope with all my heart that they don't dumb down the AI, no matter how much people whine about it. I don't mean to be rude, but if anyone wants "easy peasy NPCs that drop dead and provide no challenge", go play another game, but don't try to ruin this one for the majority of us who actually enjoy it and have been wanting a challenge since the beginning.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
.... and closed as a duplicate "New AI" thread.
Please discuss here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=254585
Please discuss here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=254585
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