Solo Wing Assassination Missions: As Combat Should Be

[NascentChemist]

I've been doing wing assassination missions by myself recently. I really like how they feel, even compared to regular assassination missions.

They feel fun and challenging, even if I haven't failed one. Perhaps it's the numerical disadvantage. Or the experimental weapon effects. Or the fact that I'm attacking a winged-up covette with a FGS.

But I really like these missions and thought I'd check with how you all feel.

 

[Jmanis]

Yup, I enjoy taking them solo, though I freely admit my tactic is normally "Take out some of the small ships, then wait for the cops to arrive" It's lots of fun!

Though doing them in a wing is also lots of fun, me and a couple buddies of varying skill/outfitting were doing it, they'd take the small fry while I'd tank the lead... also lots of fun

(on an aside, wetwork jobs are fun too... you can take out escorts/the cops who arrive in the process but you gain notoriety. Hitting only the target to avoid notoriety and tanking/evading escorts and the cops is great (esp if the target is in a big ship like a conda, and system security is high)

 

[GammaZ]

Done quite a few of them, but... after you learn what to expect they are still a bit too easy. Even without specialized loadouts.
And in any big ship you still can faceroll through them without any effort at all, provided you have reasonably good loadout.
Also, tried them in a wing of 2, flying a pair of Vipers (mkIII obviously), actually much more fun than doing it solo in corvette.

 

[kiario]

Soloing them in my Vulture. Its just easy farming missions. Not hard. Just defeat the leader end bail out. Did a few last night, did'nt even loose shields on one of them.

 

[Frenotx]

I'd say they probably need their builds adjusted to better reflect a min-maxed player driven ship. As it stands, they're waaaaay squishier. I was able to solo the mission in my general-purpose viper IV. Didn't mess with the small ships or wait for the cops to arrive- just opened fire on the target and hammered away until they died. Took less than 5 minutes. Would have been even faster if I had swapped my small burst turret (used to healing others in co-op play, and "keeping the pressure" on smaller ships) for a feedback cascade rail; the target was on SCB life support for the majority of the fight.

This was my third try. First try the USS was too close to a planet, and the gravity was causing my ship to overheat just from maneuvering. The second try I was lazy with my pips, and had to run. This try I completed the mission, but accidentally bumped into the target's derelict after I reduced them to 0, and lost over 10% of my hull. The escorts killed me before I could escape, but it didn't matter since the mission was already complete.
[video=youtube;xTBV4LoADgk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTBV4LoADgk[/video]

There's no way in hell I'd be able to do that vs. a well-built player cutter, engineered and flown to properly abuse its "totally well balanced" advantages. For an example, here's me using the same ship and loadout vs. a CMDR cutter. The only real difference in loadout is that I swapped phasing for oversized on my cytoscrambler, so it's actually 14% more powerful in this video than it was in the first. Note how difficult it is for me to stay close, and how even when I do get shots off with my engineered cytoscrambler (which has more DPS than a huge fixed beam laser- about 50 dps, vs 41), it does nothing. Further note that several other players and NPCs fire on them several times:
[video=youtube;cdv9tVunKn0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdv9tVunKn0[/video]


Frontier: please bring top-end players and top-end NPCs closer together- preferably ultimately by lowering the RIDICULOUS top end possible for players, and improving the build quality and flight styles of NPCs.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Frontier: please bring top-end players and top-end NPCs closer together- preferably ultimately by lowering the RIDICULOUS top end possible for players, and improving the build quality and flight styles of NPCs.

Exactly right. Shields need to be brought down to sensible levels- its impossible sometimes trying to dent a Prismatic Cutter. Either reduce booster effects / SCB, up the power requirement for shields or make shield killing weapons more of a thing- up phasing bleed damage (maybe based on shield strength / booster number?), make heat weapons actually cook the ship based on booster use (x8 boosters = x8 the heat).

 

[Notwyn]

Having another go at nerfing shields again, sigh....

Short break.

 

[Frenotx]

Having another go at nerfing shields again, sigh....

Short break.

I'm passionate about the game, what can I say. Plus, hooray for mental instability leading to shifting moods!

 

[npcole]

I have not met shields that can’t be dented by sustained assault with beam lasers. I accept that players flying big ships are not going to be taken out by smaller ships acting alone. And I fly smaller ships almost all of the time. People who fly the hugest shields also can’t regenerate them in any sensible amount of time.

I’d like to see healing lasers nerfed. And I’m rather sick of the special effects that turn off bits of your ship. But I honestly don’t see what all the fuss about shields are about.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

In order to make combat difficult, IMO scenarios should be unpredictabile, with random events to them (mostly reinforcements) with random timing.
This might compensate for player's ships being better.

Atm, only difficulty in soloing wing assassinations is to plan your time and evate those fg8s which "were send after you" for some reason and some unknown party. This applies only when you take 20 and rng did not smile upon you.

 

[Hexcaliber]

Exactly right. Shields need to be brought down to sensible levels- its impossible sometimes trying to dent a Prismatic Cutter. Either reduce booster effects / SCB, up the power requirement for shields or make shield killing weapons more of a thing- up phasing bleed damage (maybe based on shield strength / booster number?), make heat weapons actually cook the ship based on booster use (x8 boosters = x8 the heat).

I don't know why I keep reading this misinformed whine. Shields are fine, the cutter is an edge case that needs re balancing, it does not define the entire state of the game

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

I don't know why I keep reading this misinformed whine. Shields are fine, the cutter is an edge case that needs re balancing, it does not define the entire state of the game

Well, some with low-ends could have a buff instead, as well. Shield tanks are most useful types of ships for pve, and some of ships having maximum shielding too low makes them "PvP only" ships pretty much.
Just give them a couple of utility slots.

 

[Schmack]

This thread is a good mini-example of a bigger issue within the game - Folks grind to get the most powerful build they can then they want the game adjusted to their build because the easy button made the game boring for them. Not everyone grinds for meta build. For that reason, not everyone wants the missions buffed. Everyone here has the power to create user level difficulty adjustments by loadout and ship choice, but many will instead take the largest, most powerful ship available, engineer it to the nth degree and then comment that the game has become too easy.

I don't know where the blame lies here, maybe the game shouldn't allow you to build a ship that leads to boredom because you can snack and watch television while sitting in a CZ with a buddy, auto-killing other ships with no worry or actual input. Maybe commanders should decide if they want a challenge or an easy button, and don't expect both at the same time. Maybe "preparing for war" shouldn't be the goal (as it seems to be now), but war itself. There's a lot of prep time with grinding and engineering, but then you get a few missions and realize it wasn't really needed if you don't PvP. The only reason it's needed for PvP is because it's available so everyone else will max it out.

There's a gap between the non-engineered folks and the uber-engineered folks so large that their experiences in the game aren't even close.

I miss the A-Rated days. Today, A-Rated just means you're ready to engineer, and you don't even need to leave the safety of a station for that. You should be able to just buy engineered modules, but then that would cut out half the game since grinding for mats is now a major time sink.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

This thread is a good mini-example of a bigger issue within the game - Folks grind to get the most powerful build they can then they want the game adjusted to their build because the easy button made the game boring for them. Not everyone grinds for meta build. For that reason, not everyone wants the missions buffed. Everyone here has the power to create user level difficulty adjustments by loadout and ship choice, but many will instead take the largest, most powerful ship available, engineer it to the nth degree and then comment that the game has become too easy.

I don't know where the blame lies here, maybe the game shouldn't allow you to build a ship that leads to boredom because you can snack and watch television while sitting in a CZ with a buddy, auto-killing other ships with no worry or actual input. Maybe commanders should decide if they want a challenge or an easy button, and don't expect both at the same time. Maybe "preparing for war" shouldn't be the goal (as it seems to be now), but war itself. There's a lot of prep time with grinding and engineering, but then you get a few missions and realize it wasn't really needed if you don't PvP. The only reason it's needed for PvP is because it's available so everyone else will max it out.

There's a gap between the non-engineered folks and the uber-engineered folks so large that their experiences in the game aren't even close.

I miss the A-Rated days. Today, A-Rated just means you're ready to engineer, and you don't even need to leave the safety of a station for that. You should be able to just buy engineered modules, but then that would cut out half the game since grinding for mats is now a major time sink.

Take dark souls. Does having meta build makes game easy for you?

Why some high-end risk/reward activities cannot be added?
LOL, they even have Thargoids! Why not make them pay for all troubles involved?

 

[Frenotx]

This thread is a good mini-example of a bigger issue within the game - Folks grind to get the most powerful build they can then they want the game adjusted to their build because the easy button made the game boring for them. Not everyone grinds for meta build. For that reason, not everyone wants the missions buffed. Everyone here has the power to create user level difficulty adjustments by loadout and ship choice, but many will instead take the largest, most powerful ship available, engineer it to the nth degree and then comment that the game has become too easy.

I don't know where the blame lies here, maybe the game shouldn't allow you to build a ship that leads to boredom because you can snack and watch television while sitting in a CZ with a buddy, auto-killing other ships with no worry or actual input. Maybe commanders should decide if they want a challenge or an easy button, and don't expect both at the same time. Maybe "preparing for war" shouldn't be the goal (as it seems to be now), but war itself. There's a lot of prep time with grinding and engineering, but then you get a few missions and realize it wasn't really needed if you don't PvP. The only reason it's needed for PvP is because it's available so everyone else will max it out.

There's a gap between the non-engineered folks and the uber-engineered folks so large that their experiences in the game aren't even close.

I miss the A-Rated days. Today, A-Rated just means you're ready to engineer, and you don't even need to leave the safety of a station for that. You should be able to just buy engineered modules, but then that would cut out half the game since grinding for mats is now a major time sink.

People (not all, but many) are always going to work towards "the best" stuff. That's just human nature, and that's also just the logical extreme in any sort of game with progression. The problem is that the best stuff (min-maxed engineered ships) is SO MUCH BETTER than other things that it breaks the game. It's good to design the game to challenge folks even when they have the best stuff, but not when the best stuff is so relatively powerful that everything else is a joke by comparison.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I don't know why I keep reading this misinformed whine. Shields are fine, the cutter is an edge case that needs re balancing, it does not define the entire state of the game

OK, the next time you come up against a 5k shield please tell me how fun it is trying to break it with the shield killing weapons we have. People can sit inside and the other guy run out of ammunition, or the shield hulk simply gets bored and wanders off or continually pops a cell over and over.

Boosters and SCBs simply give too much, while there is not enough to punch through them. Fights are dull, as no-one really wants to fight on after a shield ring is left. Nearly every weapon is geared to kill hull, but there are very few for shields, and thats an odd situation since most large ships slap on boosters with layers of engineering.

If shields were not so thick, it would force more diverse builds and encourage experimentation.

 

[GammaZ]

This thread is a good mini-example of a bigger issue within the game - Folks grind to get the most powerful build they can then they want the game adjusted to their build because the easy button made the game boring for them. Not everyone grinds for meta build. For that reason, not everyone wants the missions buffed. Everyone here has the power to create user level difficulty adjustments by loadout and ship choice, but many will instead take the largest, most powerful ship available, engineer it to the nth degree and then comment that the game has become too easy.

I don't know where the blame lies here, maybe the game shouldn't allow you to build a ship that leads to boredom because you can snack and watch television while sitting in a CZ with a buddy, auto-killing other ships with no worry or actual input. Maybe commanders should decide if they want a challenge or an easy button, and don't expect both at the same time. Maybe "preparing for war" shouldn't be the goal (as it seems to be now), but war itself. There's a lot of prep time with grinding and engineering, but then you get a few missions and realize it wasn't really needed if you don't PvP. The only reason it's needed for PvP is because it's available so everyone else will max it out.

There's a gap between the non-engineered folks and the uber-engineered folks so large that their experiences in the game aren't even close.

I miss the A-Rated days. Today, A-Rated just means you're ready to engineer, and you don't even need to leave the safety of a station for that. You should be able to just buy engineered modules, but then that would cut out half the game since grinding for mats is now a major time sink.

So, you think that doing mission that presumably requires wing in small ship with sloppy legacy engineering without any trouble whatsoever is how things should work?
It is not that all the things need to be buffed, that would be bad as game should be playable by wide range of players, but there need to be optional content hard enough to challenge best pilots, in best ships with best loadouts. TBH i expected something like this from wing missions, but they turned out to be... disappointing.
Also, never really understood whole "use gimped ship/loadout/whatever for it to be harder" point of view. Is not improving both your skill and your ship/loadout most fun part of the combat in the game? Well, for me it is. And it is severely limited by lack of appropriate challenging content.

 

[Frenotx]

OK, the next time you come up against a 5k shield please tell me how fun it is trying to break it with the shield killing weapons we have. People can sit inside and the other guy run out of ammunition, or the shield hulk simply gets bored and wanders off or continually pops a cell over and over.

Boosters and SCBs simply give too much, while there is not enough to punch through them. Fights are dull, as no-one really wants to fight on after a shield ring is left. Nearly every weapon is geared to kill hull, but there are very few for shields, and thats an odd situation since most large ships slap on boosters with layers of engineering.

If shields were not so thick, it would force more diverse builds and encourage experimentation.

Not to mention that relying on shields has the advantages of being waaay cheaper (don't need to buy those crazy-expensive bulkheads), lighter (thus faster with better jump range), cheaper to run (no repairs), gives you more module space (no need for MRPs, HRPs, and AFMUs, has more field endurance (can regenerate indefinitely), can be made ~2.5x stronger at will with SYS pips, ensures the ship is never in danger, don't have to worry about armour hardness / piercing, or breach chance stats of incoming weapons, don't have to worry about missiles at all (except possibly reverb torps, which aren't a thing in PvE).... Might be forgetting some other ones.

If building a big enough shield to lean on it exclusively is an option, players will do it. The advantages offered are huge.

So, you think that doing mission that presumably requires wing in small ship with sloppy legacy engineering without any trouble whatsoever is how things should work?
It is not that all the things need to be buffed, that would be bad as game should be playable by wide range of players, but there need to be optional content hard enough to challenge best pilots, in best ships with best loadouts. TBH i expected something like this from wing missions, but they turned out to be... disappointing.
Also, never really understood whole "use gimped ship/loadout/whatever for it to be harder" point of view. Is not improving both your skill and your ship/loadout most fun part of the combat in the game? Well, for me it is. And it is severely limited by lack of appropriate challenging content.

No no, didn't you know? The way all video games work is you start with the most powerful gear, then unlock crappier and crappier junk as you progress!

 

[npcole]

OK, the next time you come up against a 5k shield please tell me how fun it is trying to break it with the shield killing weapons we have. People can sit inside and the other guy run out of ammunition, or the shield hulk simply gets bored and wanders off or continually pops a cell over and over.

Boosters and SCBs simply give too much, while there is not enough to punch through them. Fights are dull, as no-one really wants to fight on after a shield ring is left. Nearly every weapon is geared to kill hull, but there are very few for shields, and thats an odd situation since most large ships slap on boosters with layers of engineering.

If shields were not so thick, it would force more diverse builds and encourage experimentation.

There's plenty to punch through them -- as far as I can tell. You give it away when you say "run out of ammunition" -- beam lasers rip through shields very well. And plasma and rails do a pretty good job as well.

I have an FDL with reasonably good shields, but once they are down (and this happens quite a bit, especially against a wing of ships) they stay down for a loooong time.

People who enjoy hull tanking seem to resent people who build shield tanks. I've no idea why. But perhaps it is because having built their ships to take on other hull tanks they don't like going after shields.

I've never flown any of the "big three", but I've certainly been in fights where they have been taken down. Sure it takes some time, but that's rather the point. I don't want every fight to feel the same as a Sidewinder vs an Eagle. One of the most memorable fights I was in was a wing that took on one of the game's most notorious players flying one of the most notorious god-builds. We didn't destroy him, but we did get him to retreat with a broken shield and it was lots and lots of fun.

 

[Maka Gucci]

I think they should include at least 2 of the big 3, so it isn't so easy for us to just target the 1 big ship, and forget about the smaller ones.
Maybe that should be just for the elite wing missions or just for some higher paying elite missions.

I really enjoy soloing them at the moment, but I do think it would be cool to have some that were harder to solo.