Some suggestions to add to the exploration experience

[Sysmon]

Here are some additions to space travel in Elite Dangerous that may increase the space travel - especially for exploration - experience, mainly by adding a bit of danger and a need to strategise:

1) Implement radiation. At the moment, this very real danger outside (and inside!) the strong magnetic fields of major gravity wells such as Earth has no representation in the Elite universe. We may heat up a bit close to neutron stars and white dwarves, but all stars put out heaps of radiation which should degrade hull and modules if not the ships are not well shielded. Also, background radiation levels could have a component based on the mass of stars in the region. That way it would be nice and quiet near the galactic edge but near impossible to survive near the galactic centre without some serious shielding. By shielding I refer to shield generators. It would also give an actual reason to carry AFMUs on long trips.

1b) If radiation is implemented, also add shield classes to counter it. The average shield may be able to stop radiation at a distance from a star in any system - radiation drops off exponentially with distance after all. But to get close enough to fuel scoop repeatedly, to get close to O-class and neutron stars, to black holes and white dwarves, better shields might be needed. There could even be an engineering effect that helps against radiation damage.

2) Reinstate the gravity well effect on supercruise speeds from the early betas. It was good to have to use a bit of flight tactics and use nearby gravity wells to brake, for example. At the moment there is no real need to, and it is just as effective to overshoot a station and wind back as it is to fly there at a more intelligent-looking course.

3) Implement a regional mass equation to Supercruise accelerations and speed. Since supercruise is essentially a warp drive, it makes sense that acceleration (and top speed?) should be faster at the galactic edge compared to the centre. While it shouldn't be impossible to move at the galactic centre, it should also least feel like space is really thick there.

4) Increase the rate of module and hull integrity degradation with travel. If we keep having to fix things after not being serviced at a station or outpost for a while, it should feel more like we are far away from home.

5) Introduce the military drive again. These fast, high-range drives should make zipping round the bubble the blast that many seem to clamour for, even if the radioactive waste may be expensive to get rid of (and require all ships to have cargo space for it!) as well as illegal in some areas. Also, since military fuel will only be obtainable via purchase, and having to go back to good-old hydrogen fuel for deep-space exploration, it will feel like leaving home for real.

These ideas, especially adding radiation and galaxy-wide gravity effects on supercruise, may cause a bit of upset. But I think it will enrich exploration, and space travel in general.

S

 

[dxm55]

Some good ideas.
1) Logically, radiation should already be mitigated by your shields. Since they actually protect you against PA hits.

But what you can say is that as you fly nearer to a star and is exposed to the radiation, your shields should begin to take a hit and decrease just as if it was taking weapons fire.

Additionally, if your shields are down, or if you fly shieldless, your ship, and especially its occupants would take the brunt of ionizing radiation as it passes through the hull and strip you apart atom by atom.... Also, your ship should take hull damage and go boom in short order. That should teach those shieldless PVPers and Cargo runners a thing or two. LOL.

2) and 3) Sorry. I just dislike any idea that makes travel slower. So, not for this.

4) Yes. The old FE games used to have this requirement to service your ship annually, lest it blows itself up just minutes after launching.
Ship integrity should take more of a beating if you screw up... like emergency SC drops, getting hit by penetrating weapons fire, crashing into other ships.... and especially colliding with the planet's surface or against the hull of a station.

5) Oh yes, for sure. I wouldn't mind using Mil drives for superfast in-bubble travel. I would pay the cost of a Cutter just to equip one. Rank up in the Fed/Imp navy even just for acces to buy them.

And I would definitely jettison radioactives from my hold in anarchy space, Wanted levels be damned.
Suck on that, Greenpeace.

 

[varonica]

Here are some additions to space travel in Elite Dangerous that may increase the space travel - especially for exploration - experience, mainly by adding a bit of danger and a need to strategise:

1) Implement radiation. At the moment, this very real danger outside (and inside!) the strong magnetic fields of major gravity wells such as Earth has no representation in the Elite universe. We may heat up a bit close to neutron stars and white dwarves, but all stars put out heaps of radiation which should degrade hull and modules if not the ships are not well shielded. Also, background radiation levels could have a component based on the mass of stars in the region. That way it would be nice and quiet near the galactic edge but near impossible to survive near the galactic centre without some serious shielding. By shielding I refer to shield generators. It would also give an actual reason to carry AFMUs on long trips.

1b) If radiation is implemented, also add shield classes to counter it. The average shield may be able to stop radiation at a distance from a star in any system - radiation drops off exponentially with distance after all. But to get close enough to fuel scoop repeatedly, to get close to O-class and neutron stars, to black holes and white dwarves, better shields might be needed. There could even be an engineering effect that helps against radiation damage.

2) Reinstate the gravity well effect on supercruise speeds from the early betas. It was good to have to use a bit of flight tactics and use nearby gravity wells to brake, for example. At the moment there is no real need to, and it is just as effective to overshoot a station and wind back as it is to fly there at a more intelligent-looking course.

3) Implement a regional mass equation to Supercruise accelerations and speed. Since supercruise is essentially a warp drive, it makes sense that acceleration (and top speed?) should be faster at the galactic edge compared to the centre. While it shouldn't be impossible to move at the galactic centre, it should also least feel like space is really thick there.

4) Increase the rate of module and hull integrity degradation with travel. If we keep having to fix things after not being serviced at a station or outpost for a while, it should feel more like we are far away from home.

5) Introduce the military drive again. These fast, high-range drives should make zipping round the bubble the blast that many seem to clamour for, even if the radioactive waste may be expensive to get rid of (and require all ships to have cargo space for it!) as well as illegal in some areas. Also, since military fuel will only be obtainable via purchase, and having to go back to good-old hydrogen fuel for deep-space exploration, it will feel like leaving home for real.

These ideas, especially adding radiation and galaxy-wide gravity effects on supercruise, may cause a bit of upset. But I think it will enrich exploration, and space travel in general.

S

1) So your ship doesn't heat up when you get close to a star, that's remarkable, tell me how that works?

1b) So due to 1, not heating up die to radiation when fuel scooping because your ship is apparently immune to radiation you don't you then don't need to carry heat sinks to cool the ship in an emergency overheat?

2) That's funny, I use gravity braking all the time when approaching bodies and always fly around systems avoiding gravity wells.

3) Gravity doesn't work like that, nuff said.

4) Or you could actually travel far from home, most explorers do pack AFMU's, specially for neutron star boosting, but people make plenty of mistakes while traveling that would eventually add up to a disaster for a lot of explorers.

5) A Conda can jump over 80ly, 160ly with Jumponium which is easy to find now, and neutron boosts can give a possible jump range of over 330ly. I haven't heard anyone clamouring for zipping around the bubble, I have heard a lot of noise from a small group demanding jump gates to anywhere in one jump. The fact is going from one side of the bubble to the other in a ship with a decent jump range is very easy and quick.

What will enrich exploration is a vast increase in stuff to find and exploration mechanics that require more skill.

 

[Sysmon]

1) So your ship doesn't heat up when you get close to a star, that's remarkable, tell me how that works?

1b) So due to 1, not heating up die to radiation when fuel scooping because your ship is apparently immune to radiation you don't you then don't need to carry heat sinks to cool the ship in an emergency overheat?

2) That's funny, I use gravity braking all the time when approaching bodies and always fly around systems avoiding gravity wells.

3) Gravity doesn't work like that, nuff said.

4) Or you could actually travel far from home, most explorers do pack AFMU's, specially for neutron star boosting, but people make plenty of mistakes while traveling that would eventually add up to a disaster for a lot of explorers.

5) A Conda can jump over 80ly, 160ly with Jumponium which is easy to find now, and neutron boosts can give a possible jump range of over 330ly. I haven't heard anyone clamouring for zipping around the bubble, I have heard a lot of noise from a small group demanding jump gates to anywhere in one jump. The fact is going from one side of the bubble to the other in a ship with a decent jump range is very easy and quick.

What will enrich exploration is a vast increase in stuff to find and exploration mechanics that require more skill.

Maybe you are not quite understanding a few things. It's OK, I might have been unclear. The idea here is to give the galaxy as a whole a more varied feel and add a bit of need for consideration during space travel beyond populated space.

1) The game contains electromagnetic (thermal) radiation, as heat generated by stars and by our ship modules. But no cosmic radiation. There are no cosmic particles bombarding our ships, wearing down our hulls or near-surface modules. No gamma radiation is burning through our modules.

2) So do I. It takes a bit less skill than it used to, and can largely be ignored unless you really are in a hurry.

3) This has only indirectly something to do with gravity. I should probably have used the term "inverse gravity well", as we use gravity wells to brake rather than accelerate with slingshot maneuvers. This indicates that the fabric of space (what Banks called 'the skein' in his Culture novels) are hard to warp near large bodies. Even though the gravitational pull (and therefore the related "thickness" of space) falls off exponentially it won't disappear with distance - Earth feels the pull from Jupiter for example. That effect could stack, even while miniscule, so that max Supercruise speed in the core might be 500c (systems so close together they should overlap at times) but maybe 3000c or more at the edge of the galaxy (systems 50+ ly apart).

4) Really? <waves from the Errant Marshes>. Maybe there should be other dangers than just us screwing up.

5) Not everybody flies Anacondas. Mine has sat forlorn and forgotten somewhere for a long time now. I'm sure people would jump at the ability to have other ships get a bit more range. The military drives could be available only for certain ships (that has military slots already), and even restricted by size to medium and below.

S

 

[Sysmon]

2) and 3) Sorry. I just dislike any idea that makes travel slower. So, not for this.

The added complexity could be alleviated by adding overlays showing for example where gravitational overlap is smallest and hence travel may be fastest. The game should be able to do so since we already see the speed changes happen as we fly around in system.

S

 

[Ian Doncaster]

1) So your ship doesn't heat up when you get close to a star, that's remarkable, tell me how that works?

I think it's fair to say that the heating on your ship due to the presence of a star has basically nothing to do with the amount of electromagnetic radiation the star is actually emitting.

You get basically no background heat on your ship if you're sitting 1 AU from a B-class star, where nearby objects (e.g. no-atmosphere planets) are being heated to 1300K ... but hang around near a cool Y-class dwarf which is below the freezing point of water and your ship will take major heat damage.

 

[Sysmon]

I think it's fair to say that the heating on your ship due to the presence of a star has basically nothing to do with the amount of electromagnetic radiation the star is actually emitting.

You get basically no background heat on your ship if you're sitting 1 AU from a B-class star, where nearby objects (e.g. no-atmosphere planets) are being heated to 1300K ... but hang around near a cool Y-class dwarf which is below the freezing point of water and your ship will take major heat damage.

Yeah radiation works a bit wonky in the game. Y-class dwarves may fuse lithium and deuterium while B-class stars may run on pure hydrogen fusion. Either way, B-class stars should be emitting heaps of gamma radiation, as well as copious amounts of solar particles. The stellar winds coming off these puppies should be devastating compared to those coming off the Sun, requiring much more shielding for approach.

It is this lack of stellar wind I'm really complaining about here. It could be a simple numeric in the game (like heat) made up from distance from nearest star (modified for type), other stars (and types) in same system, and a modifier for regional mass density from Stellar Forge. Each class of shield modules could then withstand a certain level of radiation/stellar wind without degrading, with B-class maybe having the best protection against solar particles and ambient radiation. Such B-class shield generator could be what should be needed to even approach the galactic core, and engineering could be needed to bring the protection up to specs for surviving in the core or near the strongest emitters for any long duration.

Adding in stellar wind would also enable FDEV to add solar sail vessels to the game. There could be a few relict somesuchs floating around for players to discover, tattered sails wafting in the solar breeze (to paraphrase Cordwainer Smith, perhaps).

S

 

[dxm55]

The added complexity could be alleviated by adding overlays showing for example where gravitational overlap is smallest and hence travel may be fastest. The game should be able to do so since we already see the speed changes happen as we fly around in system.

S

Yes, I get what you mean.

But I'm looking at it from a gaming perspective. I am definitely not interested in having more factors slowing down supercruise or shortening jump ranges.
Getting around is already slow enough.

 

[VR Golgot]

This could be great, and add more variable 'geography' to the systems, plus welcome skill + risk to explo

I floated a variant on the idea that would add challenge to planetary landings too: IE having to steer through radiation belts trapped in the magnetosphere etc:

This is a moonshot of an idea, and it would only really work as part of a spread of additions... But I like it

The Science (as I understand it):

Juno's approach to Jupiter looped around the poles to nip through the parting magnetosphere torus and avoid the radiation-belts:







It seems these perilous belts are formed mainly by the ejecta from small active moons (Io's volcanoes in this case) being trapped within the magnetosphere.

Bonus Case Study: Although Saturn also has radiation belts, fed in particular by Enceladus's geyser ejecta it seems, they're far weaker, apparently mainly due to absorption by the moons, and in particular the rings themselves, leaving safe zones near the latter.


The Game Mechanism:

• Planets with significant magnetospheres & active moons kicking out ejecta would damage craft that blundered into their radiation belts.

• There would be a variety of potential belt formations and strengths, due to the various existing factors in Stellar Forge (ejecta type, ring presence, magnetosphere strength & alignment with orbit etc).

• Impact on Ships: The outcome is up for grabs, but I'm assuming issues running from electrical interference up to damage to hull and maybe external drives. [If we're cool with stuff interacting with a ship in Supercruise that is. If not perhaps interference with the FSD is the outcome - and then the damage kicks in ]

• Pilots have access to a new scanner which allows them to see the magnetosphere & the see or fathom the radiation belts. This could be high end kit, with high energy requirements perhaps. (And some may wish to forgo it and chance their arm by guessing the safest point of entry for descent, near the poles, based on existing planetary info, and using audio cues to help them realise if they're on the point of disaster).

• EDIT: Some extra reward facet will be needed, to correlate with the risk. IE maybe plasma fields could be scoopable for rare resources? Maybe gas giants etc of this nature could have a higher yield of a certain range of materials or precious chemicals etc?

Why?

• It adds flight challenge
• It rewards space savvy
• It leverages existing Stellar Forge variety to create varied gameplay outcomes.
• The scanner could have various uses beyond viewing the magnetosphere / plasma etc
• It could look & sound badass and be hella fun

Bonus Pretty & Bonus Challenges:

• Auroras would be stronger here due to extra 'fuel'
• The magnetosphere could be depicted in one (or several?) of these ways. Very purtyyyy.
• The audio wizards could have a play with these noises
• To really push the boat out you could try and model phenomena like Io's flux tube, although I have no idea if it presents dangers or notable gameplay opportunities. Looks cool though
• EDIT: Bonus oddity! If we need something precious to scoop, we could do far worse than Michael 'Hold My Axe' Brookes's plasma-based single-cell organism idea! He uses Jupiter/Io as his example no less. (They could even supply an alternate damage model, based on metal metabolising properties or something, if we need to get really leftfield )

---

Known Issues:

• The Sun's Radiation output is MUCH higher:

As noted below, this causes some real issues, as far as the pseudo-sci underpinnings go.

Possible Solutions:

• Make star plasma more hazardous!:

• Many have asked for it. Making the various eruptions more than just aesthetic, but something to be tracked and avoided.
• In an ideal world some kind of scanner overlay could allow for predictions of the next eruption. (A 'simpler' solution could be basic activity indicators on the Sensor display, and a slightly tardy detection warning in audio form)
• Cool-running exploration ships could have a slightly easier time of it, allowing for a touch more 'cruise' mode around more placid stars.
• (If the plasma events upped fuel scooping [would they up the hydrogen count in the local area?] then there's a possibility of a risk/reward passtime: 'cool surfing' nearer to the events to scoop fuel more quickly.)

• Downgrade gas giant radiation belts to scooping zones alone:

Would be a real shame, as I think they'd make great space geography.

Never-the-less, some fun could be had with them as a point of interest:

• Microbe 'rares' requiring prolonged scoping time
• The combination of close proximity & long exposure causing incremental heat exposure.

To make it work with the game logic they'd have to ramp up the threat of suns, but that could be cool too

 

[Killnine]

I don't particularly like these ideas, except radiation (ships would definitely be well shielded, but SRVs might not), but I absolutely agree that there should be more hazards out there. Planetquakes and volcanism, for example. Module degradation, especially when pushing the limits of the equipment (in addition to jet cones, flying too close to massive objects could damage the FSD).

Of course, most risks should be ones that you choose to take or avoid, with risks often carrying a reward. Having RNGesus throw a random rebuy at you would simply suck.

 

[DARGAN]

Unfortunately, Frontier are looking at ways to reduce risk to the player (risk loss of ships, and player upset with re-buy costs and being returned to the nearest station), and will likely not implement any changes that will cause potential difficulty for players. Sadly, this means that some of your ideas, while sounding reasonable, simply will not be implemented.

it would be really sad to take off the dangerous "Elite Dangerous" to make it just "Elite" because of the redemption cost. This must be true unfortunately.

I have always written that this redemption cost was an aberration for a video game, that makes this hardcore game only on the premise that people love money or because it is an indispensable resource.