Something happened to the dream.

Firstly I really love Elite Dangerous, and I believe odyssey has great potential, but I can't help but feel something happened to David Braben original concept of what he wanted ED to become. After watching the old kickstarter videos, hearing and seeing David Braben's passion and enthusiasm for ED I can't help but feel the dream and amazing vision David Braben had for ED is gone, replaced with something else. No man's sky initial release was 9 august 2016, it has taken hello games less then six years to turn the game from a disaster to a masterpiece, NMS is a great example of what can be achieved if the dream is not lost and there are not too many cooks in the kitchen clouding one's judgement and vision.

David Braben 2012, ED development plan
Another example that we've built into the structure of the the game is ship interiors, now a lot of people have seen you've seen that we're designing all the ships with the interiors in mind how the cargo is unloaded all of that sort of thing, how damage occurs and that's because, that another thing that we are doing "again" down the line is that you will be able to (walk around inside your ship).

FDEV 2021
After that first 10, 15, times, if you're in a big ship and it takes you 30, 40 seconds to get through your ship to get off a planet and then to get off your planet to go into a station where you might drop something off, it will become tiresome because it's not even a, it's not a lift where you're just going in, you haven't got to do anything you're actually going to have to run around and do stuff.

Personal opinion
I started playing Star Citizen in 2018, I bought many starships including a Crusader Mercury Star Runner with lifetime insurance, walking through my starship never gets old, sometimes I just log in to play around within the interiors of my starships in my aeroview hanger. Another example is X4 foundations, all pilotable starships have interiors, admittedly they are not that interactive but the simple fact that you can get up and walk around inside your starship is just awesome and immersive, docking at a station, getting up out of your pilot seat, walking through and out of your startship onto the station docking bay is totally not tiresome. It's not just starship interiors, the vision David Braben had for planets is somewhat similar to what NMS has achieved, even being able to fly into gas giants was on the ED road map and dare I say it, a fully offline single player mode. Why don't I just f@k off and go play "Star Citizen/X4"? and stop whinging, I do play "Star Citizen/X4" a lot and I appreciate what they do, though I also play ED, I play ED more then any other game and again I can see it's potential, what it could become, eclipsing all other space sims, if only it would try harder, just a few more steps and ED could make it to the top of the mountain.

Question: What happened to the dream?



Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM0Gcl7iUM8
 
If you watch those early Fdev kick starter diaries, you hear them use phrases “ I/we would like to see C, Y, and Z”. Watching those videos I got the sense that folks, including Braben genuinely do want those things, but I’m pretty sure they also knew they were not going to be able to pull it off with their engine, and make it a usable piece for all of the platforms they were targeting.

if anything this past year should be a lesson on what happens when you try to build onto that software.

for them to do interiors now, would require an entire work of the foundations of the game. I suspect they will be saving that, and interiors for Elite Dangerous 2.
 
I think what happened to the dream was the same thing that happens to all dreams: reality.

I think there were several 'real life' forces that collided:
  • The entire ED undertaking was far more massive than had been anticipated
  • Technology is always a limiting factor... does <system> have the capacity to <action>
  • There are competing, sometimes mutually exclusive, objectives
  • At the end of the day, the company has to turn a profit
If I had to guess, I think there were technical limitations in play at the time which forced certain design decisions that are now causing problems today.

Regarding NMS - it's okay, but it's a cartoon.
 
I think what happened to the dream was the same thing that happens to all dreams: reality.

I think there were several 'real life' forces that collided:
  • The entire ED undertaking was far more massive than had been anticipated
  • Technology is always a limiting factor... does <system> have the capacity to <action>
  • There are competing, sometimes mutually exclusive, objectives
  • At the end of the day, the company has to turn a profit
If I had to guess, I think there were technical limitations in play at the time which forced certain design decisions that are now causing problems today.

Regarding NMS - it's okay, but it's a cartoon.
Also, the game isn't finished yet. Why does the OP think the Development plan has to culminate in 2021?
 
Nah, NMS is still rubbish. It's impossible to suspend disbelief.

Star Citizen might be good if it ever gets to Beta or has more than one star system.

Congratz on the clickbait though. Whoever you work for.
Yes! I agree, NMS aesthetics and sound design are not that appealing. And Star Citizen dose have issues and there is not much to do, in just in one star system, the starship designs are rad though.

"Congratz on the clickbait" Thanks, if you must know I work for the "Allied collectors of Bacterium A7" you can find our space station headquarters, that way! over there, awards the void.
 
I, for one, truly do believe ship interiors will come. When? Who knows. What I see is the slow iterative process to get there. I've said this multiple times but you have to walk before you run, Odyssey is them getting the FPS mechanics down. You need FP anyways for ship interiors people seem to forget. In the iterative design sense the way they are doing it is logical
 
I, for one, truly do believe ship interiors will come. When? Who knows. What I see is the slow iterative process to get there. I've said this multiple times but you have to walk before you run, Odyssey is them getting the FPS mechanics down. You need FP anyways for ship interiors people seem to forget. In the iterative design sense the way they are doing it is logical
I would agree with your point, about starship interiors, that it is very likely at some point, I don't know about the ED development plan being that logical, but having a huge sandbox (the galaxy) ready to go, and just needing to drop toys in is a very good design approach.
 
The more they dumb down Elite, the more people will start looking to Star Citizen for the immersion some of us crave for.

While am not expecting copy and paste from Star Citizen as I prefer the whole Dangerous Universe. Some of the design choices I don't understand and Odyssey has left a bitter taste. I love space legs, but not in the settlement murder simulator they conceived But as an extra way to interact with Elites Universe.

The amount of money that has been pledged to Star Citizen shows there is a hunger for what Braben outlined in his original statements for Elite. A whole galaxy to interact with, that's not just pew pew, but a second Life experience.

The sad fact for some players like myself, there is only Elite, X4 and Star Citizen that ticks the Space Sim boxes. No Man's Sky while impressive, let's face it! It's too "Disney made a Space Sim".

Elite still has a strong base to keep building on their future plans (what ever they are?). But since Odyssey (not taking in the shoddy when released performance). The path seems for me personally pushing it further from the immersion I used to enjoy.
 
David Braben woke up.
David Braben!! wake up, "what where am I?" you were talking in your sleep again. Oh! was I :cry:
The more they dumb down Elite, the more people will start looking to Star Citizen for the immersion some of us crave for.

While am not expecting copy and paste from Star Citizen as I prefer the whole Dangerous Universe. Some of the design choices I don't understand and Odyssey has left a bitter taste. I love space legs, but not in the settlement murder simulator they conceived But as an extra way to interact with Elites Universe.

The amount of money that has been pledged to Star Citizen shows there is a hunger for what Braben outlined in his original statements for Elite. A whole galaxy to interact with, that's not just pew pew, but a second Life experience.

The sad fact for some players like myself, there is only Elite, X4 and Star Citizen that ticks the Space Sim boxes. No Man's Sky while impressive, let's face it! It's too "Disney made a Space Sim".

Elite still has a strong base to keep building on their future plans (what ever they are?). But since Odyssey (not taking in the shoddy when released performance). The path seems for me personally pushing it further from the immersion I used to enjoy.
I 100% agree with everything you said here, again I like Star Citizen and X4 for their immersive factors, you add those elements to ED and FDEV would have done the impossible and captured lighting in a bottle.
 
I, for one, truly do believe ship interiors will come. When? Who knows. What I see is the slow iterative process to get there. I've said this multiple times but you have to walk before you run, Odyssey is them getting the FPS mechanics down. You need FP anyways for ship interiors people seem to forget. In the iterative design sense the way they are doing it is logical

I would like to believe that, and probably do, the only thing that could put a doubt in that was the quite famous community manager rebuttal to the validity of ship interiors. It could even be seen as pro negative to the feature. He also said clearly that this was the view of the "development team".

Everyone can change their opinion, but until we hear otherwise, it would be safer to leave ship interiors as something they disagree with, and can't find value anywhere in implementing, right to the core.

Sure given the strong reaction from all corners against the statement, they could force themselves to go find the fun for out benefit.. though not until they mention it.
 
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