Space simulator?

[mkizub]

Elite dangerous is a kind of space sim? Hardly

1. Physics.
Ok, to travel we need a super-cruise mode, or a jump drive, jump gate, etc.
But in instances, when we exit super-cruise, why the flight machanic is so unrealistic?
Why we are limited with speed, not acceleration? Both in rotation and movement.
For orientation it's simple - use our mouse to point a destination, and ship's computer will calculate required acceleration and deceleration time to rotate into that position as quick as possible. Or we can move the mouse to screen edges to switch max rotation acceleration.
For directional movement we may select a target and see our relational speed or ask compuler to match our and target speed. Otherwice the showed speed shell be relative to nearby station or planet.
Ships, missiles, mines, bullets - evrything must move reallistically. In space of cause. In planet atmospheres we shell fly as airplains of cause.

I see no explanation why in space sim things fly as in air. There is no need for this atmospheric flight model.

Also, cargo weight must be taken in calculation. And goods have different weight/dencity - gold/uranium are heavier, fabrics are lighter and so on.
But ED makes things absolutely crasy. For example, I can use some iron that weights nothing to synthesize limpets that weight 4 tonns.

And who invented to mine tritium in ice rings? Tritium is radioactive with half-life time 12 years. And you expected to find it in ice rings?! Well, deuterium, lithium, but not tritium! Or if you insist - make it scoopable from stellar atmosphere, not asteroids.

ED is full of such insane decisions that have no explanation. And no reason. Just why???

2. Economics.
It's same as phisics. Everything is derived from nothing, has random price, has no use.
Why there are 100 goods on the market, if we mine only opals, diamonds and painite?
Why gold is traded, but carbon is a material for engeneers only?
Why can't we have an automatic mining tool to be installed on planets or asteroid fields?

About 15 years next to EVE online. Where everything is mined by players, crafted by players and destroyed by players.

3. Exploration.
Currently we have exploration with no purpose.
No new colonies or settlements founded by players to expand our world.
No new trade routes.
No new rare/valuable resources found far away from human's bubble that may make a discoverer rich.
Ah, yes, life forms that occupy a few spots on a moon. I can't imagine a life without ecosystem and not expanding over the all available places. As insane as tritium from asteroids.

 

[Bottom Hat]

Strange how some of these arguments seem so familiar, just written in a different fashion.

One suspects a bit of a salt mine of repetition....

 

[Dagwit]

After a couple of weeks wrestling with FS 2020 I am less inclined to grace Elite Dangerous with the term 'sim' than I might once have been.

I downloaded the manual for just one of the electronic flight instruments in some of FS 2020's planes. It's over six hundred pages long. That's six times the length of the entire Elite Dangerous manual, back in the days when there was one.

It's not the only 600+ page manual I've downloaded in search of a handle on FS 2020.

I don't know if FS 2020 will teach you to fly but it should do wonders for your reading comprehension.

No-one's ever claimed that for ED.

 

[Mrat13]

After a couple of weeks wrestling with FS 2020 I am less inclined to grace Elite Dangerous with the term 'sim' than I might once have been.

I downloaded the manual for just one of the electronic flight instruments in some of FS 2020's planes. It's over six hundred pages long. That's six times the length of the entire Elite Dangerous manual, back in the days when there was one.

It's not the only 600+ page manual I've downloaded in search of a handle on FS 2020.

I don't know if FS 2020 will teach you to fly but it should do wonders for your reading comprehension.

No-one's ever claimed that for ED.

I miss the days of games manuals. Now I want FS2020 even more just so I can enjoy reading manuals.

 

[Dagwit]

I miss the days of games manuals. Now I want FS2020 even more just so I can enjoy reading manuals.

Just to be clear, FS 2020 gives you pretty much nothing. You have to go looking online for whatever actual instrument and plane manuals are available.

 

[777Driver]

programming an FMGS is nothing compared to figuring out engineering

@OP - This is a game with sim elements (like fs2020)

1. Also, cargo weight must be taken in calculation. And goods have different weight/dencity

cargo mass influences ship and jump performance, we are restricted in max velocity and acceleration due to flight assist (discussed to death, semi newtonian with a fbw overlay) A tonne of gold has the same mass as a tonne of water, only density differs. As far as synthesis, you'll have to check with Sandro and the loach, we've been scratching our heads for years.

2. what? do you never run source/faction missions?

3.what?

 

[Mrat13]

Just to be clear, FS 2020 gives you pretty much nothing. You have to go looking online for whatever actual instrument and plane manuals are available.

I can pretend it's a games manual though, and that's the important thing. Gotta relive my childhood any way I can, because those times were the best, even if I didn't realize it at the time.

 

[Stressfest]

It's simple. Get your CPL, All the endorsements, Type ratings..etc etc fly the real thing. You'll have access to all the manuals you need for FS2020..

 

[Xious]

Salt Simulator

 

[metatheurgist]

After a couple of weeks wrestling with FS 2020 I am less inclined to grace Elite Dangerous with the term 'sim' than I might once have been.

I downloaded the manual for just one of the electronic flight instruments in some of FS 2020's planes. It's over six hundred pages long. That's six times the length of the entire Elite Dangerous manual, back in the days when there was one.

It's not the only 600+ page manual I've downloaded in search of a handle on FS 2020.

I don't know if FS 2020 will teach you to fly but it should do wonders for your reading comprehension.

No-one's ever claimed that for ED.

It's also clear that many of the people that play ED are unable to read.

 

[Valorin]

Strange how some of these arguments seem so familiar, just written in a different fashion.

One suspects a bit of a salt mine of repetition....

I mean, that's all pretty old complains, but it wouldn't have hurt to care more about scientific accuracy and logic when it comes to things like picking a fuel source for the carriers, or the materials we pick up for engineering and synthesis. Why would I land on an explanet for collecting basic materials like sulfur and iron? The fuel that costs should be worth more than these elements... They could have gone for rare isotopes or other stuff that would justify mining for it myself.
And if they want us to mine something from asteroids for fuel, why not pick something that can actually be mined from asteroids?
Concerning the flight model, that's a design choice I'm not happy with, but well... I'd love to have a second FA off button to also toggle these things.

 

[babelfisch]

You joined the forums in 2019 so I guess you aren't aware of @Mike Evans. IIRC he stopped posting on the forums in 2016 but if you are interested in the flight model I suggest you start by reading all his comments.

 

[babelfisch]

After a couple of weeks wrestling with FS 2020 I am less inclined to grace Elite Dangerous with the term 'sim' than I might once have been.

I downloaded the manual for just one of the electronic flight instruments in some of FS 2020's planes. It's over six hundred pages long. That's six times the length of the entire Elite Dangerous manual, back in the days when there was one.

It's not the only 600+ page manual I've downloaded in search of a handle on FS 2020.

I don't know if FS 2020 will teach you to fly but it should do wonders for your reading comprehension.

No-one's ever claimed that for ED.

The term space sim doesn't have anything to do with simulators. It's the name of a genre for games like Freelancer or Elite. In fact, the original Elite pretty much invented the genre and that's how people called it. Remember that most games during that time were rather arcade. A space sim doesn't need to be realistic.

 

[Rubbernuke]

ED simulates Elite, not reality. It has its own internal rules and although grounded as much as possible the game is not a sim.

 

[Grimeripe]

Just to be clear, FS 2020 gives you pretty much nothing. You have to go looking online for whatever actual instrument and plane manuals are available.

That sounds exactly like the Elite Dangerous Experience to be honest.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

2. Economics.
It's same as phisics. Everything is derived from nothing, has random price, has no use.
Why there are 100 goods on the market, if we mine only opals, diamonds and painite?
Why gold is traded, but carbon is a material for engeneers only?
Why can't we have an automatic mining tool to be installed on planets or asteroid fields?

There are probably too many commodities which are too similar to each other.

The prices are not random, though - there's a very deterministic algorithm for those.

About 15 years next to EVE online. Where everything is mined by players, crafted by players and destroyed by players.

Have a search for threads containing "Tritium" and "Colonia" for a sample of how many players actually want a fully player-driven economy in which they're dependent on other players providing goods at a mutually acceptable price. (And indeed, what players think of "commodities which have a use")

(With the scale of the populated galaxy compared with the number of active players an EVE-style economy wouldn't work, and an X-style economy would require a lot of abstraction of the NPC transports ... which arguably the current economy does, if at a really high abstraction level)

 

[Grimeripe]

There are probably too many commodities which are too similar to each other.

The prices are not random, though - there's a very deterministic algorithm for those.


Have a search for threads containing "Tritium" and "Colonia" for a sample of how many players actually want a fully player-driven economy in which they're dependent on other players providing goods at a mutually acceptable price. (And indeed, what players think of "commodities which have a use")

(With the scale of the populated galaxy compared with the number of active players an EVE-style economy wouldn't work, and an X-style economy would require a lot of abstraction of the NPC transports ... which arguably the current economy does, if at a really high abstraction level)

If anything the demand and supply is artificially low given the supposed billions of people living in some systems.

Consider driving a small pickup truck loaded with potatoes from a farm in rural New York state to sell in the city. You would just be a drop in an ocean of spuds. There is no way you switching from a pick up truck to a large semi truck would influence the price of potatoes in the city. In real life however, you might have to selll your potatoes to a shop at a lower price than when you sold it at the farmers market, at least if you wanted to sell all of it in one day.

So perhaps there is the rationale for the changing prices, that fully loaded Type-9 have to sell at wholesale prices while the Sidewinder delivers directly to a small corner shop (or the equivalent).

But I think economy is something very different from flight model.

 

[babelfisch]

(With the scale of the populated galaxy compared with the number of active players an EVE-style economy wouldn't work, and an X-style economy would require a lot of abstraction of the NPC transports ... which arguably the current economy does, if at a really high abstraction level)

It would be quite awesome to have fully persistent NPCs who influence the BGS, markets, etc. For me this would be the next (really) big step after the 1:1 galaxy simulation.

 

[Bottom Hat]

And some who serve as galactic potato shippers.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

It would be quite awesome to have fully persistent NPCs who influence the BGS, markets, etc. For me this would be the next (really) big step after the 1:1 galaxy simulation.

I think provided that how they influenced them ultimately came back down to player activity - so that all BGS moves were still player-driven, just with less abstraction - that could provide some more interesting ways to influence it, by setting up positions that encouraged the NPCs to do particular things (or just shooting them if they didn't), and of course generate missions with more specific effects.