Speaking up for the Newbies and Little People regarding Money Generation

[wigwam12]

LOTS of discussion about Shadow missions vs Long Range Trading (merits of each and xmillion credits/hour) vs Pew Pew
Guys just remember - many many of us players are casual, put in no less graft and it takes us a long time to rack up a few million pottering around the Galaxy running BB missions, trading, rares etc etc
We don't have multi-million credit ships with hundreds of tons of cargo-space or A-specced Asps

As many features of the game we hear about these fantastic little events in the game generating huge amounts of money (Seeking Luxuries, Neutron Farming, Shadow Missions etc) and there seems to be a genitalia-fighting competition between those who have already made hundreds of millions.
Some of us little folk wouldn't mind having some left-over crumbs so why bang on about asking for stuff to be nerfed?
It'll take me a fair while to even have a ship capable of doing one of these long range missions - they sound fun and I wouldn't mind the excitement that comes with it - just like I enjoyed making 1M at the tail-end of Seeking Luxuries when they had already been rinsed to dryness.

So come on guys and gals - chill
Remember we don't have the resources or ships to make these arguments valid - only a (small?) proportion of you do
We WOULD like to aspire and have a little sip of the nectar at some point in the future so leave us a bit eh while you move onto the next Billions-generating fab

To restore balance to the Force though - Qudos again to the many many many fantastic CMDRs on here who like sharing tips and tricks O7

 

[Viking84]

Couldn't agree more Smuggling is both fun, challenging within the framework that exists, rewarding and risky. The big income is only there if you stack missions, which increases the risk.

Loving it so far, will probably be spending the weekend doing it to death though in fear of it being removed / nerfed beyond reckognition...

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Is smuggling the only current way of making big money?
I feel like once you get so far in to the game, like owning an FDL, making money for the next ship up seems to feel like quite a huge task. Grinding RES farming, or CZs is about the only way I've found to make more than 2mil an hour regularly, without trading ( which I find hugely dull). But its all just grind. No real challenge cos I know what I'm capable of, and not many wings in a RES pose a big threat. (Except for that rail gun toting group for DBXs I took on had me running!).
I'm at 35mil CR. To get my Python, I need another 20 million just to buy it. And then another 150 million to outfit it how I want. So at 170 mil at an average of 2mil per hour.... At least 85 hours of gameplay. I'm lucky if I can play for 8 hours a week, so that's over 10 weeks for me... It will be March by the time I get it. Lol

 

[JosiahD]

LOTS of discussion about Shadow missions vs Long Range Trading (merits of each and xmillion credits/hour) vs Pew Pew
Guys just remember - many many of us players are casual, put in no less graft and it takes us a long time to rack up a few million pottering around the Galaxy running BB missions, trading, rares etc etc
We don't have multi-million credit ships with hundreds of tons of cargo-space or A-specced Asps

As many features of the game we hear about these fantastic little events in the game generating huge amounts of money (Seeking Luxuries, Neutron Farming, Shadow Missions etc) and there seems to be a genitalia-fighting competition between those who have already made hundreds of millions.
Some of us little folk wouldn't mind having some left-over crumbs so why bang on about asking for stuff to be nerfed?
It'll take me a fair while to even have a ship capable of doing one of these long range missions - they sound fun and I wouldn't mind the excitement that comes with it - just like I enjoyed making 1M at the tail-end of Seeking Luxuries when they had already been rinsed to dryness.

So come on guys and gals - chill
Remember we don't have the resources or ships to make these arguments valid - only a (small?) proportion of you do
We WOULD like to aspire and have a little sip of the nectar at some point in the future so leave us a bit eh while you move onto the next Billions-generating fab

To restore balance to the Force though - Qudos again to the many many many fantastic CMDRs on here who like sharing tips and tricks O7

Hear, hear. All too often those players who can afford the luxury of many, many hours in a game (any game these days, not just this one) seem to forget that they are actually in the minority. Most of the playerbase will be well behind them in terms of 'progress' as such, and can't afford to spend anywhere near the same time in-game to advance their CMDR's career. Just like real life really - the bulk of the population that 'makes the world turn' are actually the little people going about their daily business, trying to earn a crust just to stay alive.

 

[Von Shadow]

Many of the forum posts discussing anything related to money-making are totally obsessed with Cred-MAX.... many players seem obsessed with making the absolute maximum possible credits per hour and if a trade route drops a 100Cr then 'ZOMG routes dead' at times...

While i do personally have a reasonable asset total now i've never persued the Seeking Lux or ground the hell from Sothis when it happened .... just have to have a personal filter on a lot of the talk about play it your own way

 

[Wasp0]

LOTS of discussion about Shadow missions vs Long Range Trading (merits of each and xmillion credits/hour) vs Pew Pew
Guys just remember - many many of us players are casual, put in no less graft and it takes us a long time to rack up a few million pottering around the Galaxy running BB missions, trading, rares etc etc
We don't have multi-million credit ships with hundreds of tons of cargo-space or A-specced Asps

As many features of the game we hear about these fantastic little events in the game generating huge amounts of money (Seeking Luxuries, Neutron Farming, Shadow Missions etc) and there seems to be a genitalia-fighting competition between those who have already made hundreds of millions.
Some of us little folk wouldn't mind having some left-over crumbs so why bang on about asking for stuff to be nerfed?
It'll take me a fair while to even have a ship capable of doing one of these long range missions - they sound fun and I wouldn't mind the excitement that comes with it - just like I enjoyed making 1M at the tail-end of Seeking Luxuries when they had already been rinsed to dryness.

So come on guys and gals - chill
Remember we don't have the resources or ships to make these arguments valid - only a (small?) proportion of you do
We WOULD like to aspire and have a little sip of the nectar at some point in the future so leave us a bit eh while you move onto the next Billions-generating fab

To restore balance to the Force though - Qudos again to the many many many fantastic CMDRs on here who like sharing tips and tricks O7

Hear, hear. All too often those players who can afford the luxury of many, many hours in a game (any game these days, not just this one) seem to forget that they are actually in the minority. Most of the playerbase will be well behind them in terms of 'progress' as such, and can't afford to spend anywhere near the same time in-game to advance their CMDR's career. Just like real life really - the bulk of the population that 'makes the world turn' are actually the little people going about their daily business, trying to earn a crust just to stay alive.

Many of the forum posts discussing anything related to money-making are totally obsessed with Cred-MAX.... many players seem obsessed with making the absolute maximum possible credits per hour and if a trade route drops a 100Cr then 'ZOMG routes dead' at times...

While i do personally have a reasonable asset total now i've never persued the Seeking Lux or ground the hell from Sothis when it happened .... just have to have a personal filter on a lot of the talk about play it your own way

Guys these runs can be done in a Cost effective (Cheap) Cobra ( http://coriolis.io/outfit/cobra_mk_....Iw1-kA==.IwBhvMuhmKg=?bn=Wasp0_Mission_Cobra)

These Shadow Delivery runs are not just about big payouts, they represent some of the BEST FUN EDGE of your SEAT game play in ED. Before dissing it completely try it out. You will need to dedicate a 2 hours session to get there stock up and deliver, but if you like FUN, then these missions you try should now!

 

[Von Shadow]

Guys these runs can be done in a Cost effective (Cheap) Cobra ( http://coriolis.io/outfit/cobra_mk_....Iw1-kA==.IwBhvMuhmKg=?bn=Wasp0_Mission_Cobra)

These Shadow Delivery runs are not just about big payouts, they represent some of the BEST FUN EDGE of your SEAT game play in ED. Before dissing it completely try it out. You will need to dedicate a 2 hours session to get there stock up and deliver, but if you like FUN, then these missions you try should now!

I'm totally not dissing it ..... i've done them .... just saying that many posts about money making seem to be solely about maxing credits / hour ... will little consideration for 'fun' aspect...

I'd agree that 1st time i did a Sothis run loaded up with maybe 20 missions it was a total lark with all the interdictions / comms .... felt like i had this massive gang chasing me from system to system....
Failed miserably yesterday at one 17 Drac run due to a system-sec interdiction managing to get a scan and failing all 3 missions i had .... will try again tonight

 

[Weps]

People can have the same kind of fun and sense of danger by stacking shadow deliveries in core sectors - the police is even more present there, so the fun is increased! Yet no one seems to be willing to do these 300k missions, I suppose being chased by the police is only fun if you know you are going to make tens of millions.

Instead of arguing in favor of missions which make no sense from a story perspective, how about we argue against prices which make no sense? I have said it ever since E: D was launched, having to grind hundreds of millions to be able to fly heavy ships, which is a different experience in itself, is bad. We have a bad wealth mechanic and we're using a worse missions mechanic to patch it up. Why not ask for cheaper large ships, with higher maintenance costs to balance the income potential?

 

[Wasp0]

People can have the same kind of fun and sense of danger by stacking shadow deliveries in core sectors - the police is even more present there, so the fun is increased! Yet no one seems to be willing to do these 300k missions, I suppose being chased by the police is only fun if you know you are going to make tens of millions.

Instead of arguing in favor of missions which make no sense from a story perspective, how about we argue against prices which make no sense? I have said it ever since E: D was launched, having to grind hundreds of millions to be able to fly heavy ships, which is a different experience in itself, is bad. We have a bad wealth mechanic and we're using a worse missions mechanic to patch it up. Why not ask for cheaper large ships, with higher maintenance costs to balance the income potential?

I agree, but doing Shadow mission in the bubble for about 2 or 3 jumps is not as 'Edge of seat' as doing 20 jumps to your first delivery. Also i am not saying that the attractive 6 million pay tag v the 300k price tag is not an incentive it is.

Can't agree with you on the pricing for bigger ships, it equates to real life. a 40 Ton Artic Lorry will cost more than a 7.5Ton Transit van. we have to work harder to earn the 40 tonner. I do disagree that some ships are locked to rankings, but that is a different argument for a different time on a different thread!

Fly Safe my Friend!

 

[Gray Lensman]

I started trading legal goods over a year ago. It took me 3 months to get an A-spec Asp and another 6 to get an A-spec Anaconda. My ships required great effort and so should yours op.

 

[Weps]

we have to work harder to earn the 40 tonner.

Except no one is actually willing to do so.

Some of us little folk wouldn't mind having some left-over crumbs so why bang on about asking for stuff to be nerfed?

What is actually being asked here? What is the desire of the players asking for / defending a higher income? What do you guys want exactly from this game?

 

[cmdr_Havalok]

"Ain't got the Big Ship. Don't have the credits. Don't have the time."

Come on guys. These are excuses. We fly like eagles out amongst the stars, little things don't hinder the likes of us. You only really need two things for a Robigo or Sothis run...
1. A fuel scoop
2. The thrill of the chase

I made my first Robigo Run (admittedly before Horizons) In an Eagle with 4T cargo. Picked up one mission and made 2 Million. Then I flew in an unarmed T6 with 30T cargo space for months. Horizons came and I had to adapt. Like Wasp0, I now fly a Cobra (MK IV) out there about once a week. It can fight anything itself or lesser and run from anything bigger. (I'd put A4 Thrusters on there Wasp0, for those faster get-aways. )

Time is an issue? I do Robigo once a week. At the end of my night I take the 30 mins to fly out there and park for the night(20-26 jumps). Next Time I get on, I pick one Shadow Delivery and 3 or 4 Secrets or Normal Deliveries. Takes me under an hour to complete them (20-26 jumps). I'll pull in 3-5 million or if I get scanned (even Han Solo gets Scanned sometimes) about 1 million cause not everything failed on scan. If you like the risk take more Shadow or Secrets. Don't like the risk, take more normals. There are deliveries for small amounts, but tis true with Horizons they are not as common.

IT can be done. It just takes the WILL to do it. In the end Play Your Way but let others Play Theirs.

 

[Wasp0]

Except no one is actually willing to do so. ..............................

Don't Tar everyone with the same brush my friend. I have worked VERY hard to get where i am in the game. Since Aug 15 i have put in over 1200 hours in the game, sometimes annoying my wife as i crawl into bed at 4 only to get up for work at 6. Its my choice and no one is holding a gun to my head to do this, but i have Traded hard, Fought hard to get to where i am now!

Once in awhile opportunities crop up where 'More Credits' can be made easily, don't blame the people who take these opportunities. they are there use them or don't!

Fly Safe

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Hear, hear. All too often those players who can afford the luxury of many, many hours in a game (any game these days, not just this one) seem to forget that they are actually in the minority. Most of the playerbase will be well behind them in terms of 'progress' as such, and can't afford to spend anywhere near the same time in-game to advance their CMDR's career. Just like real life really - the bulk of the population that 'makes the world turn' are actually the little people going about their daily business, trying to earn a crust just to stay alive.

And it's the most fun part of the game.

You're in the stage that defines your character for the rest of the game. looking back you'll be thinking about how you scraped credits together to be able to afford that module that now sits in your ship. I'd reset my save if not for that part. The part where my character now has history and a background.

 

[Guido]

I found it rather difficult to write this post! not physically, it is that I can see all sides of the discussion here.

Casual gamers, yes ok i fall into that group, we do have this ooh look a bigger "better" ship, want but cannot afford.
It does at times seem to be tedious or even a very long path to tread to be able to afford the next upgrade or step up the ladder. In itself this si a double edged sword. I agree nobody should be able to by an A spec conda in the first 10 hours of gameplay, it devalues the experience.

Me i've just got my next half rung up for mining Type 6 to Keelback (more teeth! - same ship)

Why mining, because i enjoy it, it pays better than it used to but not as well as many other aspects, and it will be a very long time before i have a python!
Granted the python, it might be a goal for now, but i might end up doing something else, but isn't that so much mroe the point, it is the journey not the assets that make this, or they should.

Regarding the shadow deliveries, yes the payout is good, but it is equally balanced by the risk, I cant do them as RL tends to get in the way.

 

[Skaldy]

I want to enjoy playing ED for many years to come. The last thing I would want is to find some easy way to make millions/billions. There would be no fun in that.

 

[Tikigit]

To copy my thoughts from a recent Steam community discussion on the whole "New players can't make money at a decent rate" argument for why the exploitable 'google-methods' are a good thing:

"rich" gameplay lol the payouts for horizons missions are p*ss poor. There are such expensive ships and upgrades yet instead of incentivising fun ways to earn money you incist that people grind bounty hunting or trading .

Shame so many people focus on the money. Once you have played a while you realize money is not all its cracked up to be anyway.


I do some of the planet based missions for the fun. I don't grind. I have general objectives i'd like to achieve, but some of those will take years. I'm in no rush, and no matter what i'm doing, i'm making money anyway (except when i die). A few thousand an hour, its fine.


If people want to grind, they will do. If they make planetary missions worth more, sure, i won't complain, but those who grind for the money will simply keep grinding anyway at whatever earns them the most money in the shortest time.

Exactly this.


A month or two before Horizons released I actually reset my whole save profile due to how significantly the mission structure and payouts had changed back from initial release so I wanted to get properly familar with how things were now, and I gotta say the income I was getting just from general activities was just insane compared to how it used to be, the game was throwing millions at me for little real challenge... that's not abusing holes in payouts or repeating exploitable areas... but just from doing general missions and bounty hunting in a Sidewinder/Eagle/Viper MK3.


And Horizons hasn't really changed that, if anything there's even more potential big money makers just from running generic missions except some of the missions are still bugged and impossible to complete and in typical Frontier fashion, they're in no rush to bother patching up the missions as they're not critical to overall stability (See last year and the bugged missions that remained bugged for something like 2 months or more).


But no matter how much money you can make from general activities, you'll always get 'End game rushers' adopting the same mentality as one would in something like WoW, treating the entire point of things to get to 'max' in as short a span of time as possible and skipping as much activity as possible and thinking that once you've got everything money can buy that's when the actual game starts.... which is the complete opposite to how Elite Dangerous is structured from a design perspective and ends up leaving you thinking "Oh there's nothing to do in this game", because you've tried to skip the entire experience of just getting into the gameplay itself.


As it currently stands I can easily make between 2-3mil a hour just doing generic missions in a short 5-8LY radius, more than 5mil a hour if I do some proper bounty hunting or conflict zones as well.


But even with that being possible, you'll still get lots of people going "You need RES sites or smuggling missions from xxx system to make money to catch up if you're new"... it's completely of course, but you can't really argue with "Rush to end game" habits by pointing out you can still make more than enough money to progress to better ships at a steady rate and still sample lots of gameplay, whilst there are Google-able tricks to make 10x the credits in three times the amount of time and largely allowing to just rush to your 'Epix Ships' without having to actually get involved in the whole game.... because for the rush mentality it's all about getting to some perceived end point ASAP, not about the experience of gameplay.

Source: http://steamcommunity.com/app/419270/discussions/0/487877107132723418/?tscn=1452094128

 

[Weps]

Don't Tar everyone with the same brush my friend.

I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to players who specifically ask for easier credits, but don't actually explain why they want it for. I though that was clear from the second part of my post. I too have busted my elbows and a joystick to get my first T9, and don't consider myself a rich player really.

 

[Wasp0]

I found it rather difficult to write this post! not physically, it is that I can see all sides of the discussion here.

Casual gamers, yes ok i fall into that group, we do have this ooh look a bigger "better" ship, want but cannot afford.
It does at times seem to be tedious or even a very long path to tread to be able to afford the next upgrade or step up the ladder. In itself this si a double edged sword. I agree nobody should be able to by an A spec conda in the first 10 hours of gameplay, it devalues the experience.

Me i've just got my next half rung up for mining Type 6 to Keelback (more teeth! - same ship)

Why mining, because i enjoy it, it pays better than it used to but not as well as many other aspects, and it will be a very long time before i have a python!
Granted the python, it might be a goal for now, but i might end up doing something else, but isn't that so much mroe the point, it is the journey not the assets that make this, or they should.

Regarding the shadow deliveries, yes the payout is good, but it is equally balanced by the risk, I cant do them as RL tends to get in the way.

Good post Guido, i enjoy reading comprehensive post like yours that don't yell and cuss about this an that! However i must say that you CAN DO THESE SHADOW MISSIONS my friend. Like someone has already said you can one session to get to the system of choice where these mission are, next time you log on to play determine how much time you have to play, then take 1 or 2 or 3 missions based on the time playing you have in this session. Do the mission and leave your ship there or fly back to shadow mission system ready for the next time.

Overall you need minimum an hour to do 1 or 2 missions. This includes time to get there, time to pickup idea missions, time to deliver!

At the very least have a go? Believe me it will be FUN, edge of your seat Fun!

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I want to enjoy playing ED for many years to come. The last thing I would want is to find some easy way to make millions/billions. There would be no fun in that.

But there is Fun in doing these missions, and Fun with a capital F! Thats the point that some people are totally missing on this and other threads! If you don't want the big payouts, then as Weps has said these Shadow missions are an option to do at stations within the bubble for far less Credits, but they still contain the FUN Factor!!

 

[Wasp0]

I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to players who specifically ask for easier credits, but don't actually explain why they want it for. I though that was clear from the second part of my post. I too have busted my elbows and a joystick to get my first T9, and don't consider myself a rich player really.

Nothing is clear Weps on Forums unfortunately, people read posts differently to how people write them. Thats why i always try (Unsuccessfully sometimes) to try to write a friendly reply. I take no offence and give you none either. i do enjoy 'Adult conversations'. Have some Rep sir and remember Fly Safe my Friend