Spotted Hyena Confusion

[Apathyangel]

I want to say first that I greatly appreciate adjusting the age for African Buffalo. That makes such a big difference in being able to breed and maintain a population in my zoos.

The extra paragraph in the zoopedia does a lot to explain why group limits for the spotted hyena are so small. I appreciate the addition of that paragraph. However, it still says that a group may consist of 4 individuals. "2-4 (up to 2 males, up to 2 females)"

Yet, when I attempt to put two females in an enclosure with males, I always receive a notification about dangerous fighting for alpha status. Twice, I've had females injured due to these fights. It doesn't matter whether I have 1 or 2 males in the enclosure. This does not occur in female-only enclosures, only in mixed enclosures with both females and males. It would seem that franchise mode will not allow for 2 females in an enclosure with males, despite the fact that the zoopedia says that "up to 2 females" can be kept with "up to 2 males."

I would like some clarification here. Is this a typo in the zoopedia, or a bug in my game? Is there a way to prevent females from fighting and injuring each other, if 2 are kept in the same enclosure?

Thank you!

 

[NZFanatic]

I'm not sure how it works exactly, but they may function similarly to wolves. If you put multiple wolves or wild dogs in at the start of a habitat. they will fight for alpha status, however if you start with just a male and a female they can breed themselves into a decent-sized pack.

I haven't tried it with hyenas but I wonder if you start with just a male and female and breed them to a group of four, maybe they won't fight for alpha.

 

[Firestar97]

I'm not sure how it works exactly, but they may function similarly to wolves. If you put multiple wolves or wild dogs in at the start of a habitat. they will fight for alpha status, however if you start with just a male and a female they can breed themselves into a decent-sized pack.

I haven't tried it with hyenas but I wonder if you start with just a male and female and breed them to a group of four, maybe they won't fight for alpha.

Sadly that's wrong as far as I know. They will always fight if there are 2 Females and at least one male. I wish they would've given them the Pack System too

 

[NZFanatic]

Sadly that's wrong as far as I know. They will always fight if there are 2 Females and at least one male. I wish they would've given them the Pack System too

Has anyone reported it as a bug? If the Zoopedia is saying "2 males, 2 females" then that should be viable. It might be a bug of some sort.

 

[Firestar97]

Has anyone reported it as a bug? If the Zoopedia is saying "2 males, 2 females" then that should be viable. It might be a bug of some sort.

It's also like that with male Chimpanzees as far as I know. I don't know why it doesn't work with every Species that allows multiple Animals of both Genders. Even though it doesn't work with Chimpanzees, Bonobos can have multiple Animals of both Genders and they fight never if they are correctly cared for

 

[KieranKD]

I don't think the hyena numbers DO make sense though. Why can we have a load of lions but only 3 hyenas? it's not for balancing issues clearly since we have other top tier animals that have large herds. It's just stupid and they did hyenas dirty. Even a smaller number than their actual clan sizes, like, 12-20, would be perfectly fine compared to four. They really did them dirty, it feels like they researched another hyena species when they put together the spotted hyena

 

[Cocolori]

I don't think the hyena numbers DO make sense though. Why can we have a load of lions but only 3 hyenas? it's not for balancing issues clearly since we have other top tier animals that have large herds. It's just stupid and they did hyenas dirty. Even a smaller number than their actual clan sizes, like, 12-20, would be perfectly fine compared to four. They really did them dirty, it feels like they researched another hyena species when they put together the spotted hyena

The answer to that question is now in their zoopedia page on the left hand side paragraph in the same tab where it gives you the 2+2 info. It's because in the wild the pack tends to be highly dispersed and aggression is common but usually involves the effected individuals 'getting out of dodge'. In captivity it's basically impossible to give them the space to do that so most collections keep very small numbers. I've actually briefly volunteered at a place that had two orphan hyena and whilst I like most animals and find them fascinating I have to say they are far more aggresive than any other animal I've ever come across. They were only a few months old so I was in the enclosure with them but after they decided they no longer liked me (they saw me take away their empty food bowl, other times I managed to get it out without them seeing me do it) I couldn't go in there any more because they also seem to have pretty long memories. I don't know how accurate Frontier's info is but given how specific they've been it seems they've done their research. In contrast they had a group of orphaned or abandoned adolescent lions where there were about 15 of them in one group who rarely if ever showed any aggression to each other or me (too lazy).

I get that there are other inaccurate things in the game but I quite like this being in there because it does make them different to others and hyena social systems are fascinating and people should find out more. Just had a quick look and here's a thread talking about hyenas in american zoos and almost all of them are pairs or threes https://www.zoochat.com/community/threads/spotted-hyenas-in-the-us.467214/

 

[Indoraptor27]

It's also like that with male Chimpanzees as far as I know. I don't know why it doesn't work with every Species that allows multiple Animals of both Genders. Even though it doesn't work with Chimpanzees, Bonobos can have multiple Animals of both Genders and they fight never if they are correctly cared for

Well, in real life bonobos have never been documented fighting each other, and chimps can be a bit aggressive. Does it specifically say in the Zoopedia that they can have multiple males, or this just a request?

 

[Firestar97]

Well, in real life bonobos have never been documented fighting each other, and chimps can be a bit aggressive. Does it specifically say in the Zoopedia that they can have multiple males, or this just a request?

I didn't keep Chimpanzees in a long Time but I'm pretty sure it's mentioned in the Zoopedia that you can have multiple males. I really hope we will get something like the Pack System for Chimpanzees because I'm pretty sure they aren't fighting that often against their own Group Members

 

[Arrakai]

Yes, according to the Zoopedia, you should be able to keep more than one male even if you have females. This applies to both Scimps and Bonobos

But then again, the zoopedia is usually not accurate when it comes to certain things... Just take the amount of time between births, that information is inacurate for almost all specis, exept for the reptiles... Really wich they would change it in the game, or at least change the info in the Zoopedia, so that it is accurate

 

[Apathyangel]

Yeah, unfortunately, there is no pack system with the hyenas ingame. Mothers and daughters will immediately fight as soon as the daughter matures.

I'm okay with the smaller numbers. I also have some (limited) experience with hyenas, and they are truly a fascinating and remarkably aggressive species. Scary smart, completely ruthless. There's a reason why they have such a fierce rivalry with lions, who outweigh them by just a teensy bit.

Cocolori is exactly right. They can't escape and get away in captivity, so their social structure has to change. The smaller numbers make sense.

I was just confused because the zoopedia specifically says that 2 females and 2 males should all be able to cohabitate peacefully, and I'm rather annoyed that my 100/100/100/100 stat female was injured because I assumed the information in the zoopedia was accurate.

Same goes for chimps (and lemurs, unless they've changed that).

I'm okay if they need to simplify some of the animals' social structure ingame. I get that it's already a big game, and I'm okay if they go with the outdated "1 alpha male/many females" structure that remarkably few species actually follow. I also get that, for breeding purposes in a zoo, that structure makes things easier.

I'm okay with all that. I'm okay with the hyenas having small groups. I just want to be able to trust what the zoopedia says.

 

[Cocolori]

Yeah, unfortunately, there is no pack system with the hyenas ingame. Mothers and daughters will immediately fight as soon as the daughter matures.

I'm okay with the smaller numbers. I also have some (limited) experience with hyenas, and they are truly a fascinating and remarkably aggressive species. Scary smart, completely ruthless. There's a reason why they have such a fierce rivalry with lions, who outweigh them by just a teensy bit.

Cocolori is exactly right. They can't escape and get away in captivity, so their social structure has to change. The smaller numbers make sense.

I was just confused because the zoopedia specifically says that 2 females and 2 males should all be able to cohabitate peacefully, and I'm rather annoyed that my 100/100/100/100 stat female was injured because I assumed the information in the zoopedia was accurate.

Same goes for chimps (and lemurs, unless they've changed that).

I'm okay if they need to simplify some of the animals' social structure ingame. I get that it's already a big game, and I'm okay if they go with the outdated "1 alpha male/many females" structure that remarkably few species actually follow. I also get that, for breeding purposes in a zoo, that structure makes things easier.

I'm okay with all that. I'm okay with the hyenas having small groups. I just want to be able to trust what the zoopedia says.

Totally agree with that - I'm not sure why the zoopedia says 2+2 is possible!

 

[Shira]

Sadly that's wrong as far as I know. They will always fight if there are 2 Females and at least one male. I wish they would've given them the Pack System too

That's even worse to have two females and one male. Female hyenas are dominant, they "rule" the pack, males are submissive.

 

[Firestar97]

That's even worse to have two females and one male. Female hyenas are dominant, they "rule" the pack, males are submissive.

Of course I know that Female Spotted Hyenas are dominant. Even when I did keep them in the Past I've always had 2 males.

Just had a Thought. If that's the Reason why we can only have extremely small Packs, maybe they could introduce a Feature somehow that we can keep more if the Enclosure is bigger than a specific Size

 

[Shira]

Yeah... It would be nice to at least keep the litter with the parents after the cubs grow up

 

[Kaitrosebd]

I'm still not sure if the question has been answered here, I've avoided housing hyenas since the first zoo since they just seem to be 1 on 1 no matter what. The zoopedia says 2 males and 2 females but so far I've found no configuration where that actually works. It does say "nepotistic" but since mother daughters or sisters also fight this does not seem to be a mechanic that exists in the game. Has anyone actually figured out what the "right" way to house Hyena's in-game is? (I get real life is one thing but really just asking about game mechanics vs zoopedia)

 

[Firestar97]

Has anyone actually figured out what the "right" way to house Hyena's in-game is?

1 Female, 2 Males. They really need to give them a Pack System like they did with the Wolves and wild dogs. If you put 2 females into one Enclosure, they will fight if a male is also there

I wish we could keep more even if that would mean that the Enclosure needs to be extremely big

 

[Kaitrosebd]

1 Female, 2 Males. They really need to give them a Pack System like they did with the Wolves and wild dogs. If you put 2 females into one Enclosure, they will fight if a male is also there

Thanks, totally agree, I love the idea of having a nepotistic system where they can only be housed with related females creating a mini pack. It seems like that is what was initially intended but never developed. I even think it would be cool to see limited alpha fighting that did not appear as negative alerts, but instead happened naturally as pack hierarchy changes.

 

[Firestar97]

Just looked up a AZA Document about Hyenas and it mentions this about Spotted Hyenas

(I would've just copied the Text but for some Reason it didn't work on that Website, so I needed to create a Screenshot)
This means we should be able to have bigger Packs without them fighting all the time. I really hope they consider to change it, so it will be more realistic

 

[NZFanatic]

Just looked up a AZA Document about Hyenas and it mentions this about Spotted Hyenas

(I would've just copied the Text but for some Reason it didn't work on that Website, so I needed to create a Screenshot)
This means we should be able to have bigger Packs without them fighting all the time. I really hope they consider to change it, so it will be more realistic

According to that source, there has only been a single notable, successful instance where a large pack of spotted hyenas was safely kept. That doesn't skew data sufficiently enough to make it anything other than a statistical anomaly. In other words, the safest method, according to the source, is to keep only small groups.

What it tells us is that the way the hyenas work in-game does need to be streamlined but is on the right track. It just needs to be more complex. A system like that of the wolves or wild dogs should actually work fine, except without an alpha male. Theoretically, if you start with a pair, then any subsequent offspring should be able to remain in the group after growing up (up to a certain point - say a maximum of six individuals, as per the source).

I think allowing us to create a group of six would be perfectly suitable.