I third that!
Spreading Anarchy
- Thread starter Axilleas
- Start date
I third that!
Just read the goddamn info and game effects. Anarchy in the Elite Universe describes groups with their own might makes right attitude of internal laws and no laws on outside force, trade or... deeds. In short 90% of the are absolute garbage and I am not sure a powerplay anarchy can be shut down from slavery either. The post above was right, if you want a "loose" government with little interference, which is still democratic, that is your cooperative. Independant small groups working together for a joint peaceful cause.
I destroyed far over 100 anarchy systems in my playtime and the flip definetly goes to democracies on my end, not anarchies. Your opposition is also roleplay groups and general anti-piracy people... and effectively Aislings group if they roleplay anti-slavery proper.
I destroyed far over 100 anarchy systems in my playtime and the flip definetly goes to democracies on my end, not anarchies. Your opposition is also roleplay groups and general anti-piracy people... and effectively Aislings group if they roleplay anti-slavery proper.
You're wrong. First off, it depends on the group's alignment. Just off the top of my head Independent Anarchies have 'disdain for any laws outside those that govern their own members' while Imperial Anarchies say they 'openly flaunt Imperial law' but that it doesn't follow their 'members are engaging in criminal activities.' Those don't sound like what you described at all.
But hey, opponents of Anarchy never really get it right, so don't feel bad.
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No they don't:
"Not all" means far over 50% are criminals and it is no utopia of harmony. There is no police and open slavery. I don't care if your anarchy choice is heaven for those 30% that can defend themselves while all others are killed, tortured, enslaved or mistreated. Those 70% have MY protection.
I know about the concept of anarchism. We had those partially in the colonies of our world here and then. Unless properly policed - or governed by non-anarchy as in a local council for the cities etc. - they did go to hell for several people. Humans are no moral paragons of unlimited virtue. Anarchy always is to the detriment of some party without influence unless you literally live alone with your family in some backside woodland.
The game clearly marks ALL kinds of anarchies as far over 2/3 criminal and terrible. If that fits your real life idea or not. And ingame they operate as such, including drugs, chemical weapons and slavery.
The Federation "Rebels" are more ambiguous, but without proper police and due to tolerance of might makes right and crime, their space (and station trade) is just as terrible. In the game anarchists are and treated as such. If you feel your personally ideology is misrepresented and you want "Bakunin" as government type, go to frontier. Ingame anarchists are a plague.
Empire
Rebel
An organisation that is actively engaged in activity that goes against the Imperial status quo. Members openly defy Imperial law, although not all known associates are involved in criminal activity
An organisation that is actively engaged in activity that goes against the Imperial status quo. Members openly defy Imperial law, although not all known associates are involved in criminal activity
"Not all" means far over 50% are criminals and it is no utopia of harmony. There is no police and open slavery. I don't care if your anarchy choice is heaven for those 30% that can defend themselves while all others are killed, tortured, enslaved or mistreated. Those 70% have MY protection.
I know about the concept of anarchism. We had those partially in the colonies of our world here and then. Unless properly policed - or governed by non-anarchy as in a local council for the cities etc. - they did go to hell for several people. Humans are no moral paragons of unlimited virtue. Anarchy always is to the detriment of some party without influence unless you literally live alone with your family in some backside woodland.
The game clearly marks ALL kinds of anarchies as far over 2/3 criminal and terrible. If that fits your real life idea or not. And ingame they operate as such, including drugs, chemical weapons and slavery.
The Federation "Rebels" are more ambiguous, but without proper police and due to tolerance of might makes right and crime, their space (and station trade) is just as terrible. In the game anarchists are and treated as such. If you feel your personally ideology is misrepresented and you want "Bakunin" as government type, go to frontier. Ingame anarchists are a plague.
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Not all = Not 100%
It is a distinction made to exclude some of the total sum. It still implies more than a few and more than half as those are separate quantities. While there are stylistic devices and one is to contrast two things of extremes, this is not one of them. It has a very specific meaning.
Elite also reflects this ingame perfectly. In every system, be it imperial "rebels", independant anarchies etc. there are deadly and illegal goods openly available, murder is not persecuted AND if order is established by others, over 2/3 of all pirates and criminals spawning are of those factions. If you ever bounty hunted you should know that anarchists - pirates or crime syndicates really - fill up the far majority of your targets.
It is a distinction made to exclude some of the total sum. It still implies more than a few and more than half as those are separate quantities. While there are stylistic devices and one is to contrast two things of extremes, this is not one of them. It has a very specific meaning.
Elite also reflects this ingame perfectly. In every system, be it imperial "rebels", independant anarchies etc. there are deadly and illegal goods openly available, murder is not persecuted AND if order is established by others, over 2/3 of all pirates and criminals spawning are of those factions. If you ever bounty hunted you should know that anarchists - pirates or crime syndicates really - fill up the far majority of your targets.
Something pulled out of your butt that you feel the need to explain is still something pulled out of your butt.
[haha]
3.1 Used with a quantifier to exclude a person or part of a group. ‘not all the poems are serious’
Aside of basic logic that not all (as in 100%) is an exclusion of a small part near the full sum of it, for those like you unable to make that distinction and small step of mental acticity yourself, the English dictionary of Oxford spells it out. So please smack yourself over the head with the official English language in its entirety, which apparently rests in my butt. I dare say I got a fine piece of work back there then.
Just because you don't like the ingame representation of a term doesn't mean you can pull an interpretation out of your behind. FD chose the negative version of anarchies as they most often appear in real life (not ALL but very close to 100%): Might makes right / syndicate / mafia / pirates. And they are treated by people as such.
Aside of basic logic that not all (as in 100%) is an exclusion of a small part near the full sum of it, for those like you unable to make that distinction and small step of mental acticity yourself, the English dictionary of Oxford spells it out. So please smack yourself over the head with the official English language in its entirety, which apparently rests in my butt. I dare say I got a fine piece of work back there then.
Just because you don't like the ingame representation of a term doesn't mean you can pull an interpretation out of your behind. FD chose the negative version of anarchies as they most often appear in real life (not ALL but very close to 100%): Might makes right / syndicate / mafia / pirates. And they are treated by people as such.
We know we’re not going to convince you so we’re happy to gently poke fun.
Like this!
Sure, slavery in Anarchy systems is always regrettable but we do what we can to ease their suffering and right that wrong. No system is perfect!
Besides, in the end, we’ll do more good than the laughable illusions of democracy!
Like this!
Sure, slavery in Anarchy systems is always regrettable but we do what we can to ease their suffering and right that wrong. No system is perfect!
Besides, in the end, we’ll do more good than the laughable illusions of democracy!
Cooperatives are the closest you get to groups living in autarky but coming together to find consent and guiding principles on a whole while still having law enforcement to crack down on inhuman ideas of "freedom" over others.
You play as you want, but as ingame anarchies work, they are the enemy and will remain so for all not out to make a quick buck outside of mining.
You play as you want, but as ingame anarchies work, they are the enemy and will remain so for all not out to make a quick buck outside of mining.
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As far as I know, if you need any kind of coercion by force it isn’t close to Anarchy at all.
Elite is also a dystopia cranked up to extraordinary levels. To call anything good or evil is missing a whole lot of beautiful context.
You might have noticed I didn't call the cooperative "good or evil", just the ingame portrayed anarchies. Which all act in a way that the majority of humanity considers inhumane, even before the UN charta and by human dignity. Sure those principles were later ignored by dehumanizing the other side to get around it, be it racism or other ways to make them non-empathic.
Ultimately certain types of cooperatives can be terrible as well. Just as there can be a "beneficial" dictatorship depending on who dictates. Point is humans alone are never able to coexist peaceful when there is potential for strife. If all are poor, hungry and there is nothing to do to change it... sure, it will work. But once there is any way to attain more, someone will try to take it. It is how nature shaped it.
Anarchy, an unregulated Utopia, needs a true content but at the same time not lethargic and slothful people. So you need people that are industrious for industrious sake, sharing excess with others (or go back to a time where one person did EVERYTHING).
Just like you surely are not a content personality willing to sit in your corner of the world and do your thing. No you want to go out and declare war on all non-anarchies (anarchies which are at least in Elite mostly comprised of dangerous people that literally do and take what they want).
You are not truly an anarchist either. You are enforcing things outside of your own situation and imminent livelihood, effectively turning your proposed anarchy into a perversion of itself. Just like the egoistic democracy is defined as ochlocracy, not the good of the community is elected, but ones own. A corrupted anarchy that is infested by too much personal strife and egoism will deteriorate into the types we see ingame and ultimately just are inhuman versions of all other governments. And worse ultimately you enforce control by stripping people of the protection needed to make their own free decisions. Society always experienced the most freedoms when people were safe and secure, not under ideological force and constant threats to their life.
An anarchy a la Mad Max can be as much a prison colony as the official one. And you can pervert any other type into each other. Ultimately once egoism gets in, your "true" anarchy becomes a non-anarchy, a fake. Just like the USSR was fake communism. Same label, wrong content. You just replaced racial segregation with social segregation.
An anarchy of people living on separate homesteads trading some excess goods between each other can be a very friendly one, until someone wants more or lacks something. If it isn't shared by the others, they will try to take it to survive by force. Or maybe someone gets involved in a lovers quarrel. At some point something escalates. Unregulated it escalates more.
Social norms which later were ironed out and molded into official governments and its law - be it inspired and adapted by philosophy, religion or other origin - developed out of these problems. In some cases they got abused... actually in many ways they got abused. But just as some people said and adapted over the centuries: Democracy is the only decent solution to the problems we face in regards to government. Just be clear that I myself very well differentiate between a proper democracy (Swiss) and a republic (Germany) or some unfinished (and archaic) republic (USA).
There was anarchy for most times of human existence - aside of minor tribal laws - which was the least you ever saw. Last I checked progress and civilization came WITHOUT it, as someone stealing and murdering each other for lack or envy or... due to being stronger than the poor stupid city dwellers over there never advanced humanity. And it won't in Elite.
Ultimately certain types of cooperatives can be terrible as well. Just as there can be a "beneficial" dictatorship depending on who dictates. Point is humans alone are never able to coexist peaceful when there is potential for strife. If all are poor, hungry and there is nothing to do to change it... sure, it will work. But once there is any way to attain more, someone will try to take it. It is how nature shaped it.
Anarchy, an unregulated Utopia, needs a true content but at the same time not lethargic and slothful people. So you need people that are industrious for industrious sake, sharing excess with others (or go back to a time where one person did EVERYTHING).
Just like you surely are not a content personality willing to sit in your corner of the world and do your thing. No you want to go out and declare war on all non-anarchies (anarchies which are at least in Elite mostly comprised of dangerous people that literally do and take what they want).
You are not truly an anarchist either. You are enforcing things outside of your own situation and imminent livelihood, effectively turning your proposed anarchy into a perversion of itself. Just like the egoistic democracy is defined as ochlocracy, not the good of the community is elected, but ones own. A corrupted anarchy that is infested by too much personal strife and egoism will deteriorate into the types we see ingame and ultimately just are inhuman versions of all other governments. And worse ultimately you enforce control by stripping people of the protection needed to make their own free decisions. Society always experienced the most freedoms when people were safe and secure, not under ideological force and constant threats to their life.
An anarchy a la Mad Max can be as much a prison colony as the official one. And you can pervert any other type into each other. Ultimately once egoism gets in, your "true" anarchy becomes a non-anarchy, a fake. Just like the USSR was fake communism. Same label, wrong content. You just replaced racial segregation with social segregation.
An anarchy of people living on separate homesteads trading some excess goods between each other can be a very friendly one, until someone wants more or lacks something. If it isn't shared by the others, they will try to take it to survive by force. Or maybe someone gets involved in a lovers quarrel. At some point something escalates. Unregulated it escalates more.
Social norms which later were ironed out and molded into official governments and its law - be it inspired and adapted by philosophy, religion or other origin - developed out of these problems. In some cases they got abused... actually in many ways they got abused. But just as some people said and adapted over the centuries: Democracy is the only decent solution to the problems we face in regards to government. Just be clear that I myself very well differentiate between a proper democracy (Swiss) and a republic (Germany) or some unfinished (and archaic) republic (USA).
There was anarchy for most times of human existence - aside of minor tribal laws - which was the least you ever saw. Last I checked progress and civilization came WITHOUT it, as someone stealing and murdering each other for lack or envy or... due to being stronger than the poor stupid city dwellers over there never advanced humanity. And it won't in Elite.
As long as there's an IF office nearby, I don't really care.