SRV turret should turn with the vehicle (like tanks do)

[SentineI]

Currently I find combat in SRVs to be way too hard, for the simple reason that I am unable to easily turn my SRV (while in turret mode) without loosing track of which direction I am driving (vs looking).

As I was a master at shooting while driving tanks in Battlefield 1942, I believe this is down to how the turret behaves in SRV (compared to tanks). Which is to say that if I turn the SRV left/right, my turret does not turn with the SRV, but instead keeps pointing in the same direction (unlike tanks in B1942). This means I am unable to easily judge how far left/right the SRV has turned, and so I usually grossly under/over estimate how far I've turned, and thus (in the heat of battle) go in the completely the wrong direction.

So my request is simply that the turret should change direction when the SRV changes direction. Make it an option if you like.


My SECOND request is to change how the little "SRV turret compass" works, because I find that equally useless. Currently it shows the SRV always driving upwards, and instead shows the direction your turret is pointing in relative to that (using a rotating blue arc). I find this completely unintuitive, because it does not match my point of view from the turret.

What I'd LIKE to see is that the compass's little SRV rotates to face the direction you are actually driving in, and the "turret view" blue arc always points upwards (thus matching my actual point of view from the turret). By all means make this an option if you like, although I really can't see it's needed in this case.

 

[clinton]

Firstly, it's worth pointing out that ED is kinda steampunk in it's approach to technology, you've got rediculously impossible things like warp drives, but gimballed and turrets weapons are wildly inaccurate, and combat is more like WW1 than actual space combat would be, with lasers shooting down ships which are specs in the distance many thousands of miles away.

It does this for gameplay reasons. Given this approach, you can't say "it's 3301 computers should be able to do it" because then the gameplay would be boring.

Moving, particularly in an erratic fashion, is an advantage, it makes you harder to hit. It makes sense from a gameplay balance perspective that this should have a downside. The actual act of adjusting a turret to the SRV movement is non trivial. Detecting orientation would either require an image processor, or at the very least a gyroscope. Perhaps SRVs, in their steampunk sort of way, don't have this sophistication.

Actually, one of the best explanations for this sort of futuristic but "computers are poor" technology was from the Battletech universe, where advanced technology exists but because of war production facilities and knowledge of how it works has been lost. However, this can't really apply to ED because there's no indication that there's been a "dark age" and everyone is fighting with bits left over from previously. But if it did, it would be a good way to explain why I can do hyperjumps but can't line a turret up with my base movement.

 

[SentineI]

Currently I find combat in SRVs to be way too hard, for the simple reason that I am unable to easily turn my SRV (while in turret mode) without loosing track of which direction I am driving (vs looking).

As I was a master at shooting while driving tanks in Battlefield 1942

I should add that in both cases (ED's SRV & B1942's tanks) I am controlling the turret with the mouse, but left/right movement with the keyboard. That means I have much more control over aiming than I do over movement, which is probably part of the problem.

Since FDev don't seem to do any proper testing of keyboard+mouse controls (*), they are less likely to have noticed this issue (or at least found it less severe than kbd+mouse users do).


* = the initial Alpha/Beta releases of both ED & Horizons had terrible keyboard+mouse controls, which were only fixed after a LOT of complaining, and in the case of the original ED this took many months to materialise.

 

[ChaosCloud]

For what's it worth, should this be considered please make it an option left to the player because I think I'd prefer it the way it is where it tries to stay where it's aiming at (I'd try the other out anyways but hey, options don't hurt).

But while at that would I like to also ask for the turret to be fixed as in that left and right follows the horizon while up and down follows the vehicle.
What I mean is the following: park on a slope of like 20 degree, enter turret mode and turn 360 just using left or right and you'll see the turret flat out following the horizon instead of the angle of the vehicle, which is irritating if you SEE that slope yourself yet it's countered in after your input, so if you then attempt to counter it yourself your aim just goes derp.

I was wondering about this for a while why aiming was sometimes so damn hard and then I just did the above, looking around while parked on a slope and noticed that from just left and right my turret went up and down too, to stay on the horizon.

So please get rid of that or in case anyone here actually likes that: make it also an option, compared to the ship has the SRV lots of space in the right panel's settings tab ^^

 

[Psycho Romeo]

So my request is simply that the turret should change direction when the SRV changes direction. Make it an option if you like.

Considering how wild the SRV stability is at speed, this would make aiming pretty impossible. Especially for a non-analogue input user.

What I'd LIKE to see is that the compass's little SRV rotates to face the direction you are actually driving in, and the "turret view" blue arc always points upwards (thus matching my actual point of view from the turret).

Yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes. Why it's any other way boggles my mind.

 

[SentineI]

would I like to also ask for the turret to be fixed as in that left and right follows the horizon while up and down follows the vehicle.
What I mean is the following: park on a slope of like 20 degree, enter turret mode and turn 360 just using left or right and you'll see the turret flat out following the horizon instead of the angle of the vehicle, which is irritating if you SEE that slope yourself yet it's countered in after your input, so if you then attempt to counter it yourself your aim just goes derp.

I was wondering about this for a while why aiming was sometimes so damn hard and then I just did the above, looking around while parked on a slope and noticed that from just left and right my turret went up and down too, to stay on the horizon.

So please get rid of that or in case anyone here actually likes that: make it also an option, compared to the ship has the SRV lots of space in the right panel's settings tab

That's an interesting observation. I'm not sure whether that'd make things better or worse for me, but I'd definitely like to try it. Certainly I got on fine in B1942 where tank turrets did not compensate for being on a steep hill.

 

[ChaosCloud]

I've seen slope compensation nowhere else before, so I don't get how they thought that adding a compensation for something that's nowhere compensated for makes things easier for you.
When I try to aim at things and I'm not on flat ground then my aim goes all over the place, just because that weird compensation makes left into up left or up left in up up left or whatever else.

Funny enough: when you aim up enough it's suddenly turned off, but only while you aim past a certain pitch -.- so that makes it probably intentional rather than a bug.

 

[SentineI]

I've seen slope compensation nowhere else before, so I don't get how they thought that adding a compensation for something that's nowhere compensated for makes things easier for you.

From some (OK many) strange design choices in ED, I get the feeling that the main designers haven't played any games (after maybe 1993 anyway), so they need a lot of player feedback to identify problems that seem obvious to us. Or that they even play ED themselves (for fun rather than to test it for work).

When I try to aim at things and I'm not on flat ground then my aim goes all over the place, just because that weird compensation makes left into up left or up left in up up left or whatever else.

OK, you convinced me that your idea is a good one. I don't want to move a turret using 2 axis, when one of the axis isn't at a right-angle to the other (and worse changes it's angle). But I probably won't fully appreciate the fix until they provide my initial request.

 

[Magic Man]

I've seen slope compensation nowhere else before, so I don't get how they thought that adding a compensation for something that's nowhere compensated for makes things easier for you.

Modern tanks do that, they compensate for both horizontal (the tank turning) and vertical (terrain difference) so as to keep the barrel on target so you're not constantly fighting with the aim.

The SRV handles logically with respect to this so FD should be applauded really since without it people would be complaining that they can't shoot and drive at the same time. Ideally though it should be a toggle.

 

[SentineI]

Modern tanks do that, they compensate for both horizontal (the tank turning) and vertical (terrain difference) so as to keep the barrel on target so you're not constantly fighting with the aim.

I very much doubt they do it how the SRV does, as it means the left/right axis actually moves your turret up+left/down+right (when you are on a slope) BUT the up/down axis is unaffected and still moves your turret up/down. i.e. The angle of the left/right axis changes relative to the up/down axis, such that the two axis are NOT at right-angles!

If you are going to rotate the left/right axis, then the up/down axis should also be rotated. And there should be an option to disable this entirely.

without it people would be complaining that they can't shoot and drive at the same time

I never had a problem in B1942. It just added a bit of challenge, and made driving fast across bumpy terrain (e.g. a dessert) while shooting more interesting.

 

[ChaosCloud]

Modern tanks do that, they compensate for both horizontal (the tank turning) and vertical (terrain difference) so as to keep the barrel on target so you're not constantly fighting with the aim.

The SRV handles logically with respect to this so FD should be applauded really since without it people would be complaining that they can't shoot and drive at the same time. Ideally though it should be a toggle.

I'm not talking about keeping the aim where you have it while the SRV moves, I'm talking about the turret's left and right be aligned with the slope of the horizon.

It's a pain in the rear to explain but I'll try anyways (I suck at explaining...):
- put your SRV on a slope (inside a crater is bad as you need to be able to see the horizon for this) facing either uphill or downhill, doesn't matter
- the horizon on your right and left side should be rolled now
- use the turret and only use left and right, you will see that the turret compensates the pitch itself to keep the left right turning aligned with the horizon, which makes no sense to me mostly because I've never had that in any other game.

Normal relativity compensation so you can drive all over the place but keep your target in your sights sure, PlanetSide2 for example and Battlefield I guess, but compensating pitch to make left right be horizon aligned? Never had that until now and doing something that uncommon is just irritating as you'd expect to do that yourself and since you're likely used to that would it be easier that way.

 

[SentineI]

Currently I find combat in SRVs to be way too hard, for the simple reason that I am unable to easily turn my SRV (while in turret mode) without loosing track of which direction I am driving (vs looking).

As I was a master at shooting while driving tanks in Battlefield 1942, I believe this is down to how the turret behaves in SRV (compared to tanks). Which is to say that if I turn the SRV left/right, my turret does not turn with the SRV, but instead keeps pointing in the same direction (unlike tanks in B1942). This means I am unable to easily judge how far left/right the SRV has turned, and so I usually grossly under/over estimate how far I've turned, and thus (in the heat of battle) go in the completely the wrong direction.

So my request is simply that the turret should change direction when the SRV changes direction. Make it an option if you like.

I'm disappointed that over a year later nothing has changed. The SRV is still completely undrivable in turret mode. :-(

 

[ChaosCloud]

I'm disappointed that over a year later nothing has changed. The SRV is still completely undrivable in turret mode. :-(

Driving isn't the issue for me, aiming is, but yeah, they clearly don't even imply to care :<

I guess the problem is that 99.9% of the players don't care because they either don't use it in the first place or are more adaptable to alien controls that us or they simply gave up already on trying to make a point about it to FD.

After all have they not even poked their head in here.