Star to star intersystem jumps

[Slap Daddy]

(SORRY INTRASYSTEM JUMPS; my opinion might be ) I know that this has been a hot topic for some time now, but this is getting ridiculous. I've been playing for a while (since release on Xbox) but recently got it on my new PC to play Odyssey. To be honest, I really do enjoy the new update and its content so far as I have been in a grind binge/burnout cycle since I've owned the game with space flight/SRV only gameplay at the time. My biggest gripe about the game since the beginning is the supercruise travel between stars in the same system. I cannot convince any friends to continue playing with me because it is dreadfully boring to get around places.

For example, I needed fuel badly and made it to a system with a population of 399million that I have never been to before to fill up (I do not have a fuel scoop on this ship). I almost ran out of fuel because the settlements were all 100,000+ Ls away from the first star. Regardless of my poor fuel management, the fact that it took 1 min to jump 13 LY yet 10-15 min to go 100kLs is seriously imbalanced. All I want is to jump from star to star at the very least. I mean when you enter a new system you arrive at the star anyway so it wouldn't really affect interdiction or anything as it would be a similar avoidance strategy as a jump to another system. Even with supercruise assist/taxi (which is good), most of the time playing this game, I'm not even playing at all.

This causes doing any sort of mission at this system not really feasible because turning in the missions takes too long and would take up the most amount of the time of doing the mission. I find the excuses Fdev uses to justify it weak and I really do not understand them pitching a tent at the idea of this "gameplay feature" for so long.

 

[Taifu]

The Milky Way is Biggity big big (that is short for how mind boggling big the Milky Way is btw) . FDev decided to recreate it as best as they could.

10-15 minutes for 100kLs is an exaggeration.

What fuel would you have use to jump to the second star bearing in mind that jumping uses significantly more fuel than supercrusing?

As far as I know, Supercruise, is a game feature arrived at by FDev in conjunction and cooperation with the player base at the time.

Mission destination too far away? Don't take the mission. You have all the power when deciding what missions are worth doing, and which systems you want to play in.

 

[Slap Daddy]

The Milky Way is Biggity big big (that is short for how mind boggling big the Milky Way is btw) . FDev decided to recreate it as best as they could.

10-15 minutes for 100kLs is an exaggeration.

What fuel would you have use to jump to the second star bearing in mind that jumping uses significantly more fuel than supercrusing?

As far as I know, Supercruise, is a game feature arrived at by FDev in conjunction and cooperation with the player base at the time.

Mission destination too far away? Don't take the mission. You have all the power when deciding what missions are worth doing, and which systems you want to play in.

I understand the argument but I personally find that weak. Yes, the Milky Way is very big. If I want to travel to Sagittarius A, it will inevitably take me a long time, many jumps, and lots of new things to see. This is limited with LY limitations on ships. I don't see why this limitation is necessary within the same system.

Maybe I'm alone on this, but when traveling through supercruise within the same system being most of the gameplay just to somehow prove something, the game loses its appeal to MOST people (really just my friends/clan members in other games; projection is bad). It gets very old very fast as you can't even really do or see anything while supercruising between stars. There's only so much reward that such a grinding aspect can give and frankly, it's not much now that I have billions of credits. It's just annoying.

 

[Slap Daddy]

The Milky Way is Biggity big big (that is short for how mind boggling big the Milky Way is btw) . FDev decided to recreate it as best as they could.

10-15 minutes for 100kLs is an exaggeration.

What fuel would you have use to jump to the second star bearing in mind that jumping uses significantly more fuel than supercrusing?

As far as I know, Supercruise, is a game feature arrived at by FDev in conjunction and cooperation with the player base at the time.

Mission destination too far away? Don't take the mission. You have all the power when deciding what missions are worth doing, and which systems you want to play in.

and okay maybe slight exaggeration, but that was to the closest station, still took 8 minutes.

 

[Tetra Trash]

I understand the argument but I personally find that weak. Yes, the Milky Way is very big. If I want to travel to Sagittarius A, it will inevitably take me a long time, many jumps, and lots of new things to see. This is limited with LY limitations on ships. I don't see why this limitation is necessary within the same system.

Maybe I'm alone on this, but when traveling through supercruise within the same system being most of the gameplay just to somehow prove something, the game loses its appeal to MOST people. It gets very old very fast as you can't even really do or see anything while supercruising. There's only so much reward that such a grinding aspect can give and frankly, it's not much now that I have billions of credits. It's just annoying.

You're not alone; I think in-system jumps to stars (only) would be a great idea. It cuts out the part where you're screaming along at 500c with minimal interdiction risk and drops you by a star where you'd be more vulnerable. It'd give you a strategic choice for some systems of approaching outer planets/stations from SC at a cost of more time and lower risk of getting interdicted by an NPC or player, or in-system jumping to the star that would be faster but more risky (in theory, I know NPC interdictions are very easy to win). I also agree that the space is big (+ obligatory Douglas Adams quote) argument isn't convincing at all; the game makes these distances smaller for playability by going at implausible, mind-bogglingly high speeds. The analogous argument "Supercruise is fast. You just won't believe how massively, hugely, mind-bogglingly fast it is. I mean, you may think going 250 kph down the Autobahn on your way to Bonn is exhilaratingly speedy, but that's just peanuts to supercruise." makes just as much sense as the "space is big" one does.

 

[Slap Daddy]

The Milky Way is Biggity big big (that is short for how mind boggling big the Milky Way is btw) . FDev decided to recreate it as best as they could.

10-15 minutes for 100kLs is an exaggeration.

What fuel would you have use to jump to the second star bearing in mind that jumping uses significantly more fuel than supercrusing?

As far as I know, Supercruise, is a game feature arrived at by FDev in conjunction and cooperation with the player base at the time.

Mission destination too far away? Don't take the mission. You have all the power when deciding what missions are worth doing, and which systems you want to play in.

And look, I am not arguing against supercruise nor am I arguing that you should be able to jump to planets, etc. Only gripe is with multistar systems and think there should be star-to-star intrasystem jumps. Sure, I may have been SOL and would have had not enough fuel to even jump to the star and would be forced to travel a long time in this very particular case. That would have been on me and actually currently is a really cool aspect of the game to be able to get stranded due to poor planning. It only reminded me of my frustration with the game so I'm back to almost feeling dread opening the game to play even though I really want to like it.

Don't you think the FSD of 60+ LY (engineered) already takes away from the actual size of the galaxy? What's the difference here?

Thoroughly my opinion but the game would definitely have loads more consistent normie players vs the few die-hards like yourself that somehow actually enjoy this aspect.

 

[Para Handy]

You already can jump inter-system - I don't want to see intra-system jumps though. If it is far away, don't go or suck it up, your choice, fly smart.

 

[Slap Daddy]

You're not alone; I think in-system jumps to stars (only) would be a great idea. It cuts out the part where you're screaming along at 500c with minimal interdiction risk and drops you by a star where you'd be more vulnerable. It'd give you a strategic choice for some systems of approaching outer planets/stations from SC at a cost of more time and lower risk of getting interdicted by an NPC or player, or in-system jumping to the star that would be faster but more risky (in theory, I know NPC interdictions are very easy to win). I also agree that the space is big (+ obligatory Douglas Adams quote) argument isn't convincing at all; the game makes these distances smaller for playability by going at implausible, mind-bogglingly high speeds. The analogous argument "Supercruise is fast. You just won't believe how massively, hugely, mind-bogglingly fast it is. I mean, you may think going 250 kph down the Autobahn on your way to Bonn is exhilaratingly speedy, but that's just peanuts to supercruise." makes just as much sense as the "space is big" one does.

Exactly my thought as well. You said it better than I did. Even 13LY (takes <1 min to jump in this game) is mindbogglingly a large distance. It's so vast it's basically an abstract subject. However, even 1LY is mindbogglingly a large distance to us and it seems that being able to do 6LY to another star bone stock in a Sidewinder in <1min but can't get to the next star over that is 100k Ls away is just imbalance. I like the idea of choosing as well.

Anyhow, that's my opinion on the matter.

You already can jump inter-system - I don't want to see intra-system jumps though. If it is far away, don't go or suck it up, your choice, fly smart.

Okay yep you got me on semantics. Nice. Can't edit. But hey, that's your personal opinion, it's a huge barrier to most that I've tried to get to play that find out just how annoying it is and never play the game again. It'd be nice if you know, there were more players. It's a huge limiting barrier and it makes no sense why I can just jump 60LY to another star but not intrasystem (stars only)

 

[Para Handy]

.....
Okay yep you got me on semantics. Nice. Can't edit. But hey, that's your personal opinion, it's a huge barrier to most that find out just how annoying it is and never play the game again. It'd be nice if you know, there were more players. It's a huge limiting barrier and it makes no sense why I can just jump 60LY to another star but not intrasystem (stars only)

Sorry, my edit had missed your post so redone here:


I think you are projecting yourself on the populace. Nobody is FORCED to make long supercruise journeys, you just have to make sensible choices in what you are doing. All missions except some assassination ones have the in-system distance to the destination station in the description - in the case of the ones that don't, just abandon the mission if you don't want the travel time. Seriously, play the game with some discrimination.

If people leave the game because they can't work out that they don't actually need to make long trips then maybe actually the game is not suited to them. (N.B. I am not being insulting or rude - just that some people these days are looking for instant gratification.)

 

[JTFireblaze]

You're not going to get far on this forum, OP.

The regulars here would have you travel for longer if they could so you could feel just how biggity big space is oh boy oh boy. Instant microjumps to secondary stars is definitely something that would upset a lot of people for reasons unknown.

Space can still feel big even if travel is slightly faster. Hutton Orbital is still just as far away.

I would argue that your fuel problems are "part of the game" and proper planning would have helped, but I do empathise. We've all been there at some point.

But for the sake of comradery, I do agree that something to tackle the emptiness between main, secondary and more stars could be done. Increasing SC acceleration to reach 2001c much faster than currently when you're 2000Ls from a star for example.

There is some discussion floating around these forums about how a Supercruise boost might function, but in order to balance it out it would probably use more fuel, so wouldn't help your situation...

 

[Slap Daddy]

Sorry, my edit had missed your post so redone here:


I think you are projecting yourself on the populace. Nobody is FORCED to make long supercruise journeys, you just have to make sensible choices in what you are doing. All missions except some assassination ones have the in-system distance to the destination station in the description - in the case of the ones that don't, just abandon the mission if you don't want the travel time. Seriously, play the game with some discrimination.

If people leave the game because they can't work out that they don't actually need to make long trips then maybe actually the game is not suited to them. (N.B. I am not being insulting or rude - just that some people these days are looking for instant gratification.)

That's my fault for projection, I realize that it's definitely not accurate at all. I'm just frustrated. Every one of my friends got burnt out, many of my squadron members haven't signed on in a long time. This update has helped. Just my opinion, but I understand it would change the game completely. Anyhow, I'm back to putting the game down again.

 

[Slap Daddy]

You're not going to get far on this forum, OP.

The regulars here would have you travel for longer if they could so you could feel just how biggity big space is oh boy oh boy. Instant microjumps to secondary stars is definitely something that would upset a lot of people for reasons unknown.

Space can still feel big even if travel is slightly faster. Hutton Orbital is still just as far away.

I would argue that your fuel problems are "part of the game" and proper planning would have helped, but I do empathise. We've all been there at some point.

But for the sake of comradery, I do agree that something to tackle the emptiness between main, secondary and more stars could be done. Increasing SC acceleration to reach 2001c much faster than currently when you're 2000Ls from a star for example.

There is some discussion floating around these forums about how a Supercruise boost might function, but in order to balance it out it would probably use more fuel, so wouldn't help your situation...

My situation of fuel is not the point. It just made me realize what I hate most about the game. I would have had to supercruise anyhow due to low fuel if it were a feature, but I'd be kicking myself for it instead of it just being inevitable. If in-system jumps were added, I'm sure I'd still have to truck along in supercruise in this situation. But that would have been due to my negligence (Running out of fuel is an awesome scenario and has survival game qualities that attract me to it, which side point, I think a distress beacon would be cool too, who knows who is going to answer the call?).

Actually, faster supercruise when in deep space in between stars would absolutely help. Or at least SOMETHING to do. That's the travel that my gripe lies with.

But anyway, I have been playing since ~2015 and am aware of the dichotomy in the community. It's just, generally speaking, I have tried to get all of my friends to play with me, even my Rust and Empyrion groups and I guess you just have to have a certain type of personality to enjoy it and continually play. I do in bursts, but after a week, it feels like a chore and I put it down to come back and try the new updates every once in a while. I understand that these are my opinions and very much could be the minority here.

Just my (unpopular) two-cents.

 

[Tetra Trash]

I'd be surprised if the majority actually think that long intrasystem SC travel times are "good" even if the loudest ones do.

 

[Slap Daddy]

I'd be surprised if the majority actually think that long intrasystem SC travel times are "good" even if the loudest ones do.

That was my thought, but it was pointed out as a projection, which isn't wrong, but I mean I thought "Who actually enjoys that?" Maybe the regulars really do. I just had this thought because the game is already transforming before our eyes. This is no longer just a futuristic space flight sim. There is a lot of potential for this game and it is coming to fruition. There are just still these time-sink barriers where you literally sit there and do nothing at all that, personally, always drives me away from it.

 

[Para Handy]

I'd be surprised if the majority actually think that long intrasystem SC travel times are "good" even if the loudest ones do.

There is a difference in thinking long sc trips are "good" and the majority view which seems to be "don't do them then". Suggesting people are against intra-system jumps because they think the trips times are good is very disingenuous of you.

The big problem with introducing the ability to do mini-jumps in a system to a distant star is where is the deciding point (what is the min distance you can jump)? Can you jump ten thousand ls or a hundred thousand ls or what? If you made it so that any star could be jumped to then people's arguments about interdiction game-play being lost comes into focus.

So what is the answer? Maybe the mission rewards need to be greatly reworked. So if 80,000 ls is justified to you for a really good mission reward, how much better must he reward be to justify 220,000ls destinations? Near my home system there is a place where missions require that 80,000 ls trip - I very, very rarely get tempted by the reward. There is another system with 220,000 ls sc trips - I never, ever take those missions.

To me the answer to this issue is obvious: engage brain, make an informed choice.

 

[Slap Daddy]

There is a difference in thinking long sc trips are "good" and the majority view which seems to be "don't do them then". Suggesting people are against intra-system jumps because they think the trips times are good is very disingenuous of you.

The big problem with introducing the ability to do mini-jumps in a system to a distant star is where is the deciding point (what is the min distance you can jump)? Can you jump ten thousand ls or a hundred thousand ls or what? If you made it so that any star could be jumped to then people's arguments about interdiction game-play being lost comes into focus.

So what is the answer? Maybe the mission rewards need to be greatly reworked. So if 80,000 ls is justified to you for a really good mission reward, how much better must he reward be to justify 220,000ls destinations? Near my home system there is a place where missions require that 80,000 ls trip - I very, very rarely get tempted by the reward. There is another system with 220,000 ls sc trips - I never, ever take those missions.

To me the answer to this issue is obvious: engage brain, make an informed choice.

I mean, I guess... that's how I've played since I realized what a major pain it is the first day I played, sure. I think everyone does. I do try to do that but it can be inevitable at times. I wish the game didn't inherently make me think "****, I'm going to just have to either cancel or just set destination get up and walk away." To me, making it a pain in the ass is not a good way to make a game more "difficult". A way to make a game more difficult is to add content. The long-distance journeys out to distant places could be where the more relaxed time-sink grind still is. At least with that, you get to see exotic places along the way.

My argument is that I don't think the amount of time in SC should be a barrier in multi-star systems. I just really don't see the major difference between that and a jump to another system. You could easily debate a distance minimum to eliminate it in close prox binary systems where it's pointless.

My opinion, though. Seriously, definitely not trying to be rude or anything. This game might just not be for me after all these years of playing if a time-sink grind with no content like that is something people actually want as a barrier of difficulty? in this game's future. I kept playing because the roadmap looks promising and hoping that the grinding will be limited once there is more content to "fill the void" instead of determining a system isn't even worth my time because there is more than one star.

Best of luck to ya though o7

 

[Amanojaku]

I like the SC voyages. Yes, there are really long ones like Hutton but the pay is usually better, even accounting for the extra time involved, for missions who's destination is a station... let's say 150k ls from the main sequence star. What will happen to those missions?

For example: I'm at Cubeo doing passenger missions. I can do one for 5mil that's in a station 300ls from it's star, or one for 15mil that's in a station 150k ls from it's star. By the time I dock, unload the passengers, return to Cubeo, dock and look for another mission, how much time did I save doing the 300ls mission? Not much is the answer. It would take several minutes to return and go through the docking sequence anyway. I might as well maximize profits for my time and take the 150k ls mission.

Sitting in SC is relaxing to me sometimes. I'm sure if you ask ED vets there's going to be a lot who say "dock, pick up mission, engage fsd, jump, disengage fsd to drop, dock, hand in mission, etc, etc, rinse and repeat" is just as tedious (if not more so) than sitting in SC a few extra minutes to make a lot more credits. So, imo intrasystem jumps would not take the tedium out of missions at all.

 

[Ameeleean]

I like the idea but for me it is solved already starting from date I became owner of FC. No one forces anyone to pick mission or destination that is 1m ls away. Do not forget ED is not a space sim, just a game with its own rules. I will always support idea of microjumps within system, jumps into the void on the way to destination and autopilot feature<- those things are part of tool set any space game should have for me.
I do not care about all those trigger happy players who would find it harder to find me or any other target in OPEN mode but I also realize this is part of the game- right now I'm happy in solo mode sharing the same galaxy with other players (great idea). I've lost interest in PvP long time ago and I also prefer different type of combat than dog-fighting style we have in ED now.

P.S. Fleet Carrier= deluxe mobile garage with decent jump range and destination limited by FC count in target body and non-permit locked system... and nothing else beyond that for solo player.