General / Off-Topic Star Trek Humpback Whales. A question.

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Deleted member 110222

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Has it ever been explained why the whales could talk to the alien thing? Are the whales alien themselves? Or was it all just a ploy from the Star Trek writers to show people that whale hunting is bad?
 

Chris Simon

Chris Simon
Star Trek did always tend to carry a strong "message". Whatever it might have been at the time, political, social,..
So it's entirely possible that this was a anti-whaling thing.
 

Robin of Spiritwood

Robin of Spiritwood
The aliens were an aquatic cetacean like species, seeking contact with similar species.
The humpbacks were portrayed as a sentient species in that movie. So it's analogous to how alien humanoid species looked to make first contact.

Spock made brief comment on the human arrogance of assuming the signals must be meant for them.
 

Jenner

I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Jenner
Robin of Spiritwood said:
The aliens were an aquatic cetacean like species, seeking contact with similar species.
The humpbacks were portrayed as a sentient species in that movie. So it's analogous to how alien humanoid species looked to make first contact.

Spock made brief comment on the human arrogance of assuming the signals must be meant for them.
Click to expand...

^ This.
 

Arry

Arry
Chris Simon said:
Star Trek did always tend to carry a strong "message". Whatever it might have been at the time, political, social,..
So it's entirely possible that this was a anti-whaling thing.
Click to expand...
I would say it was more about this. The plot stated there were no more whales; so it was a 'save the whales' message.
 

Morbad

Morbad
I thought the film made it pretty clear that the last time the aliens visited that whales were the predominant intelligent/social animals on Earth, so naturally that's the language the aliens learned, and whales are who they expected their probe to encounter.
 

Toumal

Toumal
Morbad said:
I thought the film made it pretty clear that the last time the aliens visited that whales were the predominant intelligent/social animals on Earth, so naturally that's the language the aliens learned, and whales are who they expected their probe to encounter.
Click to expand...

Which is weird because it would imply that communications don't change over the course of history, and boy would that be a bold assumption to make.
Or the method of communication of whales is already so perfect that no improvement is possible/necessary, which is unlikely.
 

Morbad

Morbad
Toumal said:
Which is weird because it would imply that communications don't change over the course of history, and boy would that be a bold assumption to make.
Or the method of communication of whales is already so perfect that no improvement is possible/necessary, which is unlikely.
Click to expand...

I suspect the writers were strongly influenced by Noam Chomsky's ideal that the fundamentals of language are hardwired...scientific consensus is still unclear on this, but it does at least seem plausible.

In the context of the film, it's quite possible that these aliens had intermittent contact with humpback whales for millions of years, constructed probes to rapidly learn the basics of the whale languages they'd encounter when they arrived, and had no reason to anticipate the rise of humanity (anatomically modern humans only having existed for maybe 2-10% as long as humpback whales), the sudden extinction of the sentient species they knew of, and failed to include contingencies for them. The assumptions required for the chain of events presented may have been reasonable ones for a species that had experienced nothing analogous to the rapidity of human societal evolution, or the on going extinction event humanity is responsible for.

Or maybe they were just writing a story and didn't fuss too much over the details...
 

metatheurgist

metatheurgist
Toumal said:
Or the method of communication of whales is already so perfect that no improvement is possible/necessary, which is unlikely.
Click to expand...

Now, I can buy that the aliens were blasting out some kind of broad spectrum signal that would hit atmo and somehow turn into noise the whales can hear (and that's why it was futzing the coms of Starfleet). But what were the whales doing that the Aliens heard all the way out in space thru a hard vacuum? Answer: Whales are telepathic.
 

Toumal

Toumal
Morbad said:
Or maybe they were just writing a story and didn't fuss too much over the details...
Click to expand...

They still put more thought into it than Abrams, Orci and Kurtzman. I'm still fully expecting them to do a 180 and claim that the new stuff was "just a parody".
 

Aashenfox

Aashenfox
Jenner said:
Ug. Yeah, the Abrams universe Trek is just awful.
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'Just awful' is WAAAAAAY too strong. There are parts of it that are so hollywood I want to be sick, but Kirk, particularly Kirk, and the rest of the cast, make up for it (not a huge fan of young spock if I'm honest, or Uhura). Qualifier: I own (legally) every single piece of official star trek media ever produced to my knowledge, and some non official ones. If I became king of the world, I'd immediately declare it the federation and start the revolution. :D
 

Zak Gordon

Zak Gordon
Robin of Spiritwood said:
The aliens were an aquatic cetacean like species, seeking contact with similar species.
The humpbacks were portrayed as a sentient species in that movie. So it's analogous to how alien humanoid species looked to make first contact.

Spock made brief comment on the human arrogance of assuming the signals must be meant for them.
Click to expand...

And along with that and the 'save whales' message (a good one too), keep in mind that Whales have been around on this planet longer than we have, and it 'might' have been them that the aliens first contacted way back in time? The Whales might have been then the most advanced life form on the planet (maybe they still are?).

I miss old Star Trek :(
 

Gortron

Gortron
Yep, I reckon it was more a political message than anything else. Good stories tend to use current issues to engage people.

The reimagined Battlestar Galactica is a great example. It wasn’t long after 911; it was a fight for survival involving religion, the storyline about New Caprica and insurgents pushed it too far and the ratings fell dramatically in the US. I have vague memory it was Sky in the UK that saved it from getting axed.
 

Jenner

I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Jenner
Worth noting that the Voyager spacecraft carried humpback whale song on that laserdisc, too.

I guess the aliens found it? :)
 

Arry

Arry
Gortron said:
Yep, I reckon it was more a political message than anything else. Good stories tend to use current issues to engage people.

The reimagined Battlestar Galactica is a great example. It wasn’t long after 911; it was a fight for survival involving religion, the storyline about New Caprica and insurgents pushed it too far and the ratings fell dramatically in the US. I have vague memory it was Sky in the UK that saved it from getting axed.
Click to expand...
Battle Star Galactica is about 40 years old. Old story re-vamped. There is no original thought any more.
 
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