Stars as Fuel Source (Fuel Scoop)

Baldrick0712 · Oct 31, 2014

Hi,

What is the rationale behind making fuel scooping use stars as a fuel source? This seems pretty ridiculous to me. Gas giants, yes, but stars! That just seems crazy.

Has anyone tried fuel scooping yet? Is it just stars that you can skim over for fuel (uh!) or can you also skim over gas giants (more realistic).

ZenSpider · Oct 31, 2014

Stars for now, gas giants later is the plan I believe. I really enjoy scooping from stars but it's a bit fraught managing heat levels. Repairs probably cost about the same as you're saving on fuel, but for life beyond the frontier it's going to be necessary.

psychotik2k3 · Oct 31, 2014

So you confirm the feeling I had watching the newsletter beta 3 video where you see the fuel scooping but with damages to the ship.

Elessarus · Oct 31, 2014

You could definatly do it without taking damage but it would take about 10 times longer then as you have to cool off all the time.

ZenSpider · Oct 31, 2014

Elessarus said:
You could definatly do it without taking damage but it would take about 10 times longer then as you have to cool off all the time.

Indeed. It's all about risk/reward. Annoying to have to back out of a scooping run just as the fuel is starting to flow nicely, I definitely hang in there longer than I probably should.

Aewarin Jameson · Oct 31, 2014

I currently fly with no shield generator ... don't try an scoop as you frazzle really quickly !

Mephane · Oct 31, 2014

Elessarus said:
You could definatly do it without taking damage but it would take about 10 times longer then as you have to cool off all the time.

I have found a sweet spot where ship heat remains constant at ~100% and the scoop rate is always above 20. At that point I can simply throttle down to the minimum 30km/s, lean back and enjoy the view.

BBRodriquez · Oct 31, 2014

Imo you refill pretty fast no need for taking damage.
Stars as a fuel source is strange for me, I would like some scientific explanation how it should work.

But I still love to fly close to a star.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jOWuKfC9Do

This Forum Sucks · Oct 31, 2014

Baldrick0712 said:
What is the rationale behind making fuel scooping use stars as a fuel source? This seems pretty ridiculous to me. Gas giants, yes, but stars! That just seems crazy.

We use hydrogen as fuel and stars are made of hydrogen. At least that's my understanding.

SelectThis · Oct 31, 2014

Every system has a star but may not have a gas giant to scoop from.

Defacto · Oct 31, 2014

I find it kind of strange that we can scoop from such an altitude. How far does these scoops reach, really? I thought we would be going down into the photosphere, so I must say I'm a bit disappointed.
Also, not every star is made out of hydrogen either, but I don't think that is in the game (I think Yellow stars would be most efficent for scooping, followed by orange, red and yellow-whites.)

Hermit · Oct 31, 2014

Baldrick0712 said:
What is the rationale behind making fuel scooping use stars as a fuel source? This seems pretty ridiculous to me. Gas giants, yes, but stars! That just seems crazy.

It's a feature from the original game. It would've been mad not to put it in. People liked it because there was that risk there if you got it wrong, or got too close to a sun. There's the gas giant idea, true, but not every system may have one.
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Now all they need to do is put in the rear camera view, with the ability to use rear guns, and I'll be happy

Binky · Oct 31, 2014

When I first heard about fuel scooping, I automatically thought of gas giants. It never occurred to me for a second that they meant from stars, because thats just madness.

The atmosphere of stars extend out quite a long way from their 'surface' and are, at least for Sol, 90% hydrogen. So its an abundant source of fuel.
Unfortunately, and weirdly, the outer layer of a stars atmosphere is the hottest bit. The surface of Sol is a balmy 6000 degrees or so, but its corona (the outer most layer) is 2000000 degrees*...
Hot enough to vapourise ... well, everything.

Everything except hull plating, which is made from an alloy of pixie dust and Handwaveium
Of course, the ships also have shields to protect them. From the light. That I can see. From inside the shield.

But I can't complain too much, as I fly through space at a thousand times the speed of light, about the 'lack of realism'

*If you're wondering whether that is Fahrenheit or Celsius, the answer is 'It doesn't matter'

Skid · Oct 31, 2014

The game uses Hydrogen as a fuel, so it's perfectly acceptable for Stars, which are giant balls of hydrogen, to but scoopable for fuel. As a tip, before entering a star to fuel, go to your ships power management and disabled EVERYTHING (include shields as they don't work in frame shift anyway) bar, Power Plant, Frame Shift Drive, Fuel Scoop, Life Support (I've never tried disabling this, it might be OK if it's not off long) and your Thruster. The reduction in power usage will reduce your ships base running temperature and allow you to stay deeper in the sun for longer.

Defacto, While you are technically right, all stars burn Hydrogen (although they aren't made solely of it), it's only dieing stars (Red Giants for example) that have burnt all their Hydrogen that wouldn't have any.

NoCarrier · Oct 31, 2014

Skid said:
Defacto, While you are technically right, all stars burn Hydrogen (although they aren't made solely of it), it's only dieing stars (Red Giants for example) that have burnt all their Hydrogen that wouldn't have any.

And white dwarfs too, which have in fact shed their gas shells and are now giant balls of degenerate matter (i.e., matter particle soup). I was actually trying to locate a white dwarf right now and try to scoop it. My gut says it'll probably be possible as a game concession, even though technically it probably shouldn't. Who knows, maybe we're scooping up trace amounts of hydrogen?

Skid · Oct 31, 2014

NoCarrier said:
And white dwarfs too, which have in fact shed their gas shells and are now giant balls of degenerate matter (i.e., matter particle soup). I was actually trying to locate a white dwarf right now and try to scoop it. My gut says it'll probably be possible as a game concession, even though technically it probably shouldn't. Who knows, maybe we're scooping up trace amounts of hydrogen?

In theory it wouldn't be to hard for them to prevent scooping from star that wouldn't have any Hydrogen to scoop. Every star has a stellar classification for it, so when they check range for scooping, check to see if the star is Class D, if it is, don't scoop. So if you find one and can scoop it report it as a bug, they may of just overlooked it.

NoCarrier · Oct 31, 2014

Skid said:
In theory it wouldn't be to hard for them to prevent scooping from star that wouldn't have any Hydrogen to scoop. Every star has a stellar classification for it, so when they check range for scooping, check to see if the star is Class D, if it is, don't scoop. So if you find one and can scoop it report it as a bug, they may of just overlooked it.

I don't know about that. People buy fuel scoops so they won't end up stranded in the middle of nowhere, and if you prevent fuel scooping off white dwarfs, people might end up that way if they find themselves in a white dwarf system without any gas giants.

If the devs want to make a point of this, I'd suggest that the fuel scoop would be able to scoop up trace amounts of hydrogen. After doing this at supercruise speeds, the player would be able to gather just enough hydrogen to make another jump to scoop a main-sequence star.

dognosh · Oct 31, 2014

Mephane said:
I have found a sweet spot where ship heat remains constant at ~100% and the scoop rate is always above 20. At that point I can simply throttle down to the minimum 30km/s, lean back and enjoy the view.

Listen to this guy , I have never taken damage, and I have no shields !!! As he said, approach, slow down as your temp goes up, then when your temp is around 99-100 , slow to 30km/s and turn ship parallel to the sun so you don't get any closer.

Harbinger · Oct 31, 2014

You can't scoop dwarf stars.

As for safely scooping just point yourself at the center of the star and when you get to about 95% heat drop to the minimum speed of 30 km/s and hold it there. You should scoop in plenty of fuel and your temperature should stay pretty static.

Borgkube · Oct 31, 2014

Elessarus said:
You could definatly do it without taking damage but it would take about 10 times longer then as you have to cool off all the time.

I wonder if you could eject heat shields to counter act the heat build up? It might be somewhat costly though and you have a limited supply. I think they should scoop from a little further out so you could minimize the heat damage. It might take a little longer to fill your tanks but should be allowed to do so without having to incur damage to your ship. In Elite fiction, they never seem to acquire damage while fuel scooping!

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Harbinger said:
You can't scoop dwarf stars.

As for safely scooping just point yourself at the center of the star and when you get to about 95% heat drop to the minimum speed of 30 km/s and hold it there. You should scoop in plenty of fuel and your temperature should stay pretty static.

Thanks for the advice. I'll have to give it a try.