Stars, CC and progression Systems: An Idear to Improve the progression aspect of the game

KönigDerKaffeebohnen

K
Okay everybody, so we all know the old school zoo tycoon star based progression where each star unlocks new animals and stuff, correct?
I thought a bit about alternative ways to use, abuse and change some ways about the game that i personally dont like with general stuff from the forums to the topic, while not making too outlandish changes.

So to get started, CC. CC in its current form are a second currency to buy the rare animals and are the games way to try to not have you simply start with giant pandas, which is a good thing on paper, but their are multiple reasons CC doesnt work on both a thematic and gameplay level.
1. CC is not challenging or hard to aquire, just tedious. There are countless tutorials about how to quickly farm CC by just breeding tons of nile monitors or whatever. It does not do its intended job of gate keeping the rarer animals away and instead just promotes a boring style of play to get to them.
2. Measuring the conversational impact you make by a currency to buy rarer animal both works and does not work on a thematic level. The idear of only getting endangerd animals after you allready have proven your worth to conversation is a good and fitting idear, but mass breeding and releasing nile monitors to get one elephant does not feel like i did something for conversation, but like i simply bought it, because thats basicly what i did.

My first step to change CC from a currency that you can use to buy things to a literal progression meter.
This bar will fill up when you do overall good things for conversation, like breeding, releasing, having high welfare and educating your guests about the animals and issues in their enviroment.
Overall CC gain will be slowed, slow but steady passive income of high welfare and education will be far more important then just releasing the same animal over and over into the wild. Infact, only healthy animals with good stats will have a bigger impact for being born and released, while inbreed animals will only give minimal gain, making the management of who breeds with who more then just a time waist like it is in the curraint system. Overall, the CC gained from births and releases will be much higher the more endangered the species is. A new born tiger cub is more valueable for conservation then 30 nile monitors, something that would be reflected in the gain.
When it reaches a certain point, it will increase your conservation raiting, which will unlock new things, for one just simply new animals the zoo Association trusts you with, but also events. These events will allow players a shot at taking care of a high profile animal in their zoo, which will reward them with more CC if they do a good job, aswell as give them a direction in how to build their zoos.
These events will work in three waves. First the zoo association will approach you, telling you that they are impressed with your work and want to entrust a breeding pair/little group of an endangerd species to you, asking for what kind of animals you could envision yourself to take into your zoo. You will then be able to choose between 4 categories out of Big Cats, Bears, Apes, Large Herbivores and propaply more that i cant think of right now. You will choose one and in the next two ingame months (i would guess you could also speed up or slow down this part in the settings), they will approach you again, this time with again 4 options to choose from, mixed from the base game and dlc animals you have, but for example you choose the big cats, they might make you choose between a breeding pair of jaguars, a small pride of 3 lions, a lone clouded leopard and the task to buy a second one, with them now enabled in your store for limited purchases (would be extra cool with animal personalitys and actually having to find a suitable mate personality wise) or 2 male tigers as a bachelor group, where they might either offer a female or demand one of the tigers back to be relocated again.
This way the player can have cool, centerpiece animals reasonably early and even request which kind, having them still locked away in general till further back to be excited for, which would hopefully slow down the pace of progression, without overall locking the player out of building for these animals.
Now for the third part of the event is when you actually have the animal. The higher your CR (Conservation Rank) rises, the more important will it be that your animals have high welfare, or else it will drop down again, possibly even having those animals being confiscated by your association. This will be double important for those event animals, where they will be especally picky about it. Low welfare or even an untimly death could harshly lower your Conversation Rank and hamper your ability to get more animals.

Overall this dynamic CR should bring more necessity to actually doing valueable conservational work, instead of just releasing all your inbreed low budget high birthrate animal of choice till you own that lion you allways wanted.

But yes, this was it for now, maybe i will develope the idear further with either your feedbacks and idears or my own in the future, but i hope you liked the idear and chare the ways you think could be used to fix the progression in the game or what you think the problems even are. Cheers
 

KönigDerKaffeebohnen

K
darthquell said:
Yes. Perfect.

And another idea: albinos.

Albinos are very popular for guests, but zoos in general prefer not to have them for conservation reasons. My idea is that they can't be released, but have a higher appeal than standard animals. Maybe you lose CCs if you breed albinos? I dunno
Click to expand...
I wouldnt say you loose it, just you dont gain as much. An albino rhino is still a rhino
 

FoxyDee

FoxyDee
Excellent suggestion. I am an all-time advocate for more challenging gameplay, e.g. having to build your way up. Current system just do not work for me, CCs are way to easy to obtain. I can start with bears, cats and rare animals as the first animals in zoo...ZT star system was not perfect, but it worked for the most parts. It made you start with easy to keep birds, gazelles and such, which was way more fun in my opinion.

Rare animals such as Pandas, Pangolins, Gharials, Platypus etc. should have a "quest" or some kind of challenge to obtain them. How about only being able to obtain pandas only if you succesfully bred other, hardly breeding animals? Which brings me to another point...

I would also love more challenging breeding. I know, it migh ruin the market in the Franchise mode, but at least in Challenge mode, I would love if some animals bred very, very rarely, with some of them not breeding in their lifespan at all, just in like real life zoos. Currently, pandas breed like rabbits, which quite breaks the immersion. Some animals could have a non-compatible mates, with which they would not breed, so you would have to get more compatible animal. Of course, this could be linked to animal traits and such, which is another matter entirely.
 

KönigDerKaffeebohnen

K
darthquell said:
Actually, I'd like this. That way the market will be more balanced. No more will I find 20 pages of lions, 15 of pandas, and 3 of giraffes.

Less popular animals (and maybe even new animals) will have more numbers and rarer, more popular animals will have less. That's key in my opinion
Click to expand...
True, breeding more common animals might actually have a point then, eventhough i think removing cc as a currency allready will screw with the market quite well, hopefully for the better as people will props make more reasonable prices in cash + maybe we could even habe trade offers? Like trading two giraffes for one gorilla?
 

KönigDerKaffeebohnen

K
Hello there people, in my first post on this thread i coverd my gripes with cc as a currency and how changing it into a progression bar with milestones and events can fix some of the games issues (in theory).
Today i want to expand on that idear and focus on how to determine possible starting rosters and a simple, but significant way to differentiaze different continents from each other, so lets begin.

So, to have animals exclusive for later stages of the game and or events, we need to limit the roster.
My suggestion would be to create a stronger immersion into starting an actual small "zoo" that obtains attention from the local association if it does well by only a small roster of animals determind by the continent the player chooses. For example, in an european zoo you would have access to domestic animals and those in the pet trade like lamas, peafowls, green iguanas, etc, aswell as some local wildlife that could be rescues from the wild (in europes example this could be the badger and lynx for example), with lower rated animals or even little events for them, for example a zoo in south africa might be able to adopt a rescued baby zebra, but not a rhino as they havent proven themself for that task, unless it pops up as an event. These events regarding local species would grant you two options, either you can accept them, gain one or more juvenile, old or injured animal of the species and be given a timeframe to build a habitat for them, where they will have a high wellfare rating, aswell as a bit of money to actually being able to do that if you are low on budget, but not to much so that you dont feel like you have to take them.
The other kinds of animals are those, that could realisticly be bought in that area. For example in europe there are farms with deer or ostritches, where you could buy some from. These would obviously change from continent to continent aswell, with an easy example being aligator farms in america.

So now your starting the game with domestic animals, some from the pet trade and farms, aswell as local rescues, giving each continent or if we want to go really crazy each area on the world map their own starting roster of animals. To note, all endangerd local animals would be locked from these events, as well as some more prestigous animals. Just because your zoo starts in china, it doesnt mean that you could start with pandas.
On the other hand, this could bring some more fun, luck based elements into the game, reminding me of rouge likes abd rare drops, so from a game perspective this could also be really fun, so pls let me hear your take on if you should be able to get early local rescues of rare and endangerd animals.

All these rescues related events would also affect your CR, depending on how good you handle the animals, giving out a good bonus for nursing the animal back into a good condition and releasing them back into the wild, letting you have an active choice between keeping the animal or exchanging it for a bunch of CR and getting closer to unlocking more animals in the market/events. Or you could even decline, not risking any bad impact on your CR or simly just so you can ignore the event if you are not interested in them, which is also fair.

Now to the end, a possible general starting roster for europe, because im not that familiar with things outside of europe, so if you have suggestions for your country, pls note them in the comments.
This is more of a fun little example, so pls dont expect it to be perfect :)

Europe:
In the market:
  • Peafowl
  • Lama
  • (if domestic here would be the Water buffalo)
  • bactrian camel
  • Fallow deer
  • Ostritch
  • Reindeer
  • red kangaroo (yes you can buy kangaroos and wallabys here, their are legal and professional farms and breeders for them in europe)

Possible Rescues if inside or close to their range:
  • Moose
  • timberwolf
  • european badger
  • eurasian lynx
  • alpine ibex
  • grey seal


As you can see, this list is a bit barren, but thats something that a domestic/farm animal dlc, some reskins like a european beaver or the wisent, aswell as just some more european animals could easily fix.
Ofcourse this is now where perfect of a System, but a fun one for sure, strenghtening the feeling of starting small and becoming big, synergizing with the before established CR system, bringing in more events and giving the continents some mayor differences, making this quite ideal for some kind of challange mode.
But pls, let me know what you think about this and your own idears, i would love to hear them
 
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KönigDerKaffeebohnen

K
To compliment the local starting rosters, i would like to see two packs if this pipedream should ever come to the game, but hey its just a hypothesy, so i can surly assume what i would release along side that update.
The dlc accompaning the update itself would be a farm/petting zoo pack, featuring domestic animals that could be added to every continent.
My proposal is simple, dwarf donkey, african dwarf goat, watussi cattle and vitnamese pot bellied pig, aswell as some farm/backstage scenery pieces.
These 4 are not only amongst the most common in zoo, but also from all corners of the world, making them good for not just petting zoos but also themed areas.

The other pack that would follow before or after as am extra pack would be our first clone animal pack, featuring common animals for mostly smaller zoos.

For europe, this pack would feature the eurasian brown bear and the wisent, for north america the bobcat and american flamingo, south america the humbold penguin and a second capuchin monkey, like the tufted one, for asia some kind of ungulate like the sika deer or a gazelle would be a nice addition and if we had a wallaby at this point, a second wallaby or just simply the grey kangaroo.

This should help to fluff out the starting roster of esch reason, aswell as just bring some nice thematic picks for both continental themed areas, local zoos and just variety in general.
 

SotF

SotF
KönigDerKaffeebohnen said:
So, to have animals exclusive for later stages of the game and or events, we need to limit the roster.
My suggestion would be to create a stronger immersion into starting an actual small "zoo" that obtains attention from the local association if it does well by only a small roster of animals determind by the continent the player chooses. For example, in an european zoo you would have access to domestic animals and those in the pet trade like lamas, peafowls, green iguanas, etc, aswell as some local wildlife that could be rescues from the wild (in europes example this could be the badger and lynx for example), with lower rated animals or even little events for them, for example a zoo in south africa might be able to adopt a rescued baby zebra, but not a rhino as they havent proven themself for that task, unless it pops up as an event. These events regarding local species would grant you two options, either you can accept them, gain one or more juvenile, old or injured animal of the species and be given a timeframe to build a habitat for them, where they will have a high wellfare rating, aswell as a bit of money to actually being able to do that if you are low on budget, but not to much so that you dont feel like you have to take them.
The other kinds of animals are those, that could realisticly be bought in that area. For example in europe there are farms with deer or ostritches, where you could buy some from. These would obviously change from continent to continent aswell, with an easy example being aligator farms in america.
Click to expand...
Some rhinos might actually be rather easy to get in areas of Africa...there's a few places that they're trying to either change laws or get rid of them where they've been farming some of them. It's a situation that's a lot like the alligator farms, except that they're having issues because there isn't a legal use for them anymore because you can't really tell a farmed rhino horn from a poached rhino horn so they have a bunch of them that are of no real value anymore and a massive stockpile of horns that were paying for the farming that now just sit there because they can't be sold.
 

KönigDerKaffeebohnen

K
After laying down the groundwork, i want to tackle my most disliked part of the game:
The trade center

Think about it, the trade center plays a part in allmost all of the games management problems, if not activly creating them.
Its the equivalent of a god mode in the game. It doesnt cost money to operate, animals inside it dont age and stay forever pregnant, they get free food, dont die of injurie or illness and you are never in need to actually take care of the animals like a real zoo would.
Some examples of things the trade center makes obsolete:
  • Quarantine Areas for sick or new Animals
  • the need for Seperated enclosures for animals, be it because the group got to large, male and female ratio or if we ever get animal personalitys things relating to that
  • the ability for the game to actually have animals that are only suitable alone for periods of time, like for example many male animals in zoos would be
  • a true consequenze for overpopulating your zoo besides having to manually sell them all
  • overall the necessity for any backstage area regarding animals

So what would my alternative be?
First, the trade center will not exist anymore as anything more then a way to buy and sell animals. No storage included.
When you enter the market, you will be able to claim up to 10 animals, which will be in store in what now the storage is, but instead of being a building in your zoo, it would refer to seller as its location.
They will keep taking care of the animals, but only for a steep upkeep cost, much higher then if you would keep them in your zoo.
You can place them in your zoo whenever you want, but you would not be able to store them again.

This Change alone would fix a few things.
First, it takes away the godly power of the trade center and its storage, by making it simply not accessable, but without forcing you to instantly put into a habitat any animal you buy. Having their previous owner take care of them in exchange for money sounds like a fair QoL adjustment.
It also makes a dedicated backstage animal storage far more appealing to build, where new animals can wait for their new habitats, can be moved to if ill, when their habitat is overpopulated or when they are marked to be sold in the market.

An additional change i would make is, that like alluded to above, animals that are sold do not instantly leave the park, and instead are marked until the buyer transfers them into their zoo. In the single player modes this could be a random time interval, while in franchise this would be in real time until the player who bought it wants to put it down in their zoo.
This propaply is actually amongst the most drastic changes, so i really dont know if this suggetion makes any sense in the multiplayer from a professional game design perspective, but i dont see why not in challange mode and you could just disable it like all these other changes in sandbox

Cheers everybody, see you next time when i overhaul the next thing i dont particulary like about the game from a management point of view (i think this is a near flawless builder). If you have any suggestions for me to think about or your own changes you would make, i would love to hear them!
 

The_Riot22

The_Riot22
KönigDerKaffeebohnen said:
Now to the end, a possible general starting roster for europe, because im not that familiar with things outside of europe, so if you have suggestions for your country, pls note them in the comments.
Click to expand...
For North America:

Market:
  • Llama
  • American Bison
  • Bactrian Camel
  • Ostrich
  • American Alligator
  • Grey Wolf

Possible Rescues:
  • California Sea Lion
  • Arctic Wolf
  • Arctic Fox
  • Cougar
  • Pronghorn
  • Dall Sheep
  • Polar Bear
  • Grizzly Bear
  • North American Beaver
  • Prairie Dog
  • Moose
  • Baird's Tapir
  • Jaguar
  • Grey Seal
 
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