State of balancing grandfathered Plasma Accelerators?

[Bigmaec]

Rail guns got their stealth buff by applying -40% heat with certain experimentals.

As I understand it, the meta of Plasma Accelerators is still the grandfathered module with thermal reduction secondaries.

As of now I won't be able to obtain a comparable weapon.

When will the PA get the stealth buff, too?

 

[biohazard15]

Same question about optimal mass secondary for shields.

 

[Muetdhiver]

Put under the carpet hoping nobody sees anything ?

 

[Frenotx]

Rail guns got their stealth buff by applying -40% heat with certain experimentals.

As I understand it, the meta of Plasma Accelerators is still the grandfathered module with thermal reduction secondaries.

As of now I won't be able to obtain a comparable weapon.

When will the PA get the stealth buff, too?

I think a dev said they were looking into it at the end of the beta, but don't quote me on that. I wouldn't be surprised if they did something like they did with rails. It's also possibly they'll do nothing though, and hope everyone just forgets.

 

[Aashenfox]

Sandro said they would look at it.

I don't have any issue with 2 large focused PAs in 3.0 on an FAS/Chieftain/Python, in fact the problem is always distributor draw more than heat, so it really isn't a huge deal for me.

In fact, I think I'd prefer it if extreme heat reduction were removed from legacy modules, making the PA a truly tactical weapon.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Yea, still multiple module types out in the wild with massively complementary sets of secondary's; FD have created a world of have/have not's and appear only to have fixed a couple of cases and seem prepared to let all the rest go.

Grandfathering was and still is a daft idea and a real missed chance to balance the rngineer equipment out there.

 

[Frenotx]

Sandro said they would look at it.

I don't have any issue with 2 large focused PAs in 3.0 on an FAS/Chieftain/Python, in fact the problem is always distributor draw more than heat, so it really isn't a huge deal for me.

In fact, I think I'd prefer it if extreme heat reduction were removed from legacy modules, making the PA a truly tactical weapon.

You should give short range modded a try. The loss in range isn't terribly relevant. You loose the projectile speed buff so you have to lead more, but... 75% increased damage with 0 increase in distributor draw. It's more WEP efficient than efficient modded weapons! The heat on THOSE is quite noticeable, however. Definitely recommend pairing with a thermal vent beam, or using the it as a "tactical weapon", as you said.

 

[Muetdhiver]

You should give short range modded a try. The loss in range isn't terribly relevant. You loose the projectile speed buff so you have to lead more, but... 75% increased damage with 0 increase in distributor draw. It's more WEP efficient than efficient modded weapons! The heat on THOSE is quite noticeable, however. Definitely recommend pairing with a thermal vent beam, or using the it as a "tactical weapon", as you said.

I will certainly give it a try. With the chieftain I realized that I only every fire APAC's a close range given that my rails are the reliable long range option.

Good thinking here. (As usual )

 

[Aashenfox]

Definitely a good tip, I'll look into it, thanks.

 

[Frenotx]

I will certainly give it a try. With the chieftain I realized that I only every fire APAC's a close range given that my rails are the reliable long range option.

Good thinking here. (As usual )

Definitely a good tip, I'll look into it, thanks.

On the chieftain, two small gimballed short range thermal vent beams do wonders with that setup. Since thermal vent's cooling appears to just be the inverse of the heat load of the weapon, the big heat increase from short range modding make the beams super-good at cooling. If your WEP is full, you can actually cool yourself off in stealth running if you're hitting with those beams. :3

 

[Aashenfox]

The the chieftain, two small gimballed short range thermal vent beams do wonders with that setup. Since thermal vent's cooling appears to just be the inverse of the heat load of the weapon, the big heat increase from short range modding make the beams super-good at cooling. If your WEP is full, you can actually cool yourself off in stealth running if you're hitting with those beams. :3

Truth is I've been fighting at much closer range than I ever expected to with the corvette, and I've been tryin to think of a way to get rid of the heatsinks and use PAs instead of gimballed dakka, this may be the answer. Hitting the small ships with it is going to be an issue. I dare say a double hit from the two huge PAs on the vette with 75% dmg increase would be enough to one-shot an Asp.

 

[Frenotx]

Truth is I've been fighting at much closer range than I ever expected to with the corvette, and I've been tryin to think of a way to get rid of the heatsinks and use PAs instead of gimballed dakka, this may be the answer. Hitting the small ships with it is going to be an issue. I dare say a double hit from the two huge PAs on the vette with 75% dmg increase would be enough to one-shot an Asp.

I think most things will feel getting smacked with over 430 damage in one shot.

 

[the100thmonkey]

Stealth heat buff on PAs? Yes, please!

I have dual G5 long range plasmas on my Vulture. It gets a little... toasty in the cockpit.

 

[StiTch]

You should give short range modded a try. The loss in range isn't terribly relevant. You loose the projectile speed buff so you have to lead more, but... 75% increased damage with 0 increase in distributor draw. It's more WEP efficient than efficient modded weapons! The heat on THOSE is quite noticeable, however. Definitely recommend pairing with a thermal vent beam, or using the it as a "tactical weapon", as you said.

This is why I feel a tad sombre when I think about the handling of balance in 3.0. It's easy to rant mindlessly at every aspect of engineering, but forgetting the overall drastic shield inflation etc., mods have actually done a great job of providing a number of options. Yeah there will always be a meta and on the whole defense levels need to be reviewed but we're no longer in the days of "stealth rail-de-lance or go home".

And then instead of using 3.0 to address a number of issues that perhaps couldn't have been addressed with a small update, we've instead taken one step forward and twenty steps back by just inflating everything. It feels like FD spent months and months refining a nice block of clay into a vase that was just about to get intricate, and then smashed a new lump of wet clay on top and called it a masterpiece.

The simple fact is that if we follow the patterns, we will need to apply a thermal load buff to certain effects to keep PAs reasonable compared to rails and grandfathered PAs...and yet the idea makes me feel like using my liver as a stress ball, because we're annihilating the offsets associated with high output/high offset weapons.

 

[Maro-Val]

Aww plasmas.. allmost nobody talks about it anymore, but plenty of those grandfathered weapons are around afaik. I expect it will be forgotten and some people will be again gods among others that cannot obtain those kind of weapons.

 

[Frenotx]

This is why I feel a tad sombre when I think about the handling of balance in 3.0. It's easy to rant mindlessly at every aspect of engineering, but forgetting the overall drastic shield inflation etc., mods have actually done a great job of providing a number of options. Yeah there will always be a meta and on the whole defense levels need to be reviewed but we're no longer in the days of "stealth rail-de-lance or go home".

And then instead of using 3.0 to address a number of issues that perhaps couldn't have been addressed with a small update, we've instead taken one step forward and twenty steps back by just inflating everything. It feels like FD spent months and months refining a nice block of clay into a vase that was just about to get intricate, and then smashed a new lump of wet clay on top and called it a masterpiece.

The simple fact is that if we follow the patterns, we will need to apply a thermal load buff to certain effects to keep PAs reasonable compared to rails and grandfathered PAs...and yet the idea makes me feel like using my liver as a stress ball, because we're annihilating the offsets associated with high output/high offset weapons.

Totally feel your pain. That was a major factor behind why I wrote that, Starting to Loose Faith post the other day. I was really hoping FDev would finally be addressing the horrible balance issues of the engineers (and all the negatives to the overall health of the game they cause). When I found out they were doubling-down on the problem, and also preventing themselves from ever being able to fix them (because of grandfathered weapons), it was a massive let-down.

 

[GG7]

My Advanced Plasma collection are the only daily use weapons I have not converted over to the new system. Those and the Class 5 Shield Generator I use on my Cutter.

I had been hoping to see these get some love ahead of the 3.0 release like the RailGuns did, but as you say... We are still waiting.

Fortunately in my case, I am more than satisfied with the performance of my Legacy G5 Upgraded APAs and would be happy with them as they are if FDEV chooses to continue to ignore this entire weapon class.

I will still be scratching my head as to why they are being ignored, but my current mods more than hold their own against any of the 3.0 buffed alternatives.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

another stealth buff? because PA's aren't the all ends meta already, and because they aren't circumvennting most resistences, and basically having engineerign aroundheat is just another thing.

PA's need to stop applying absolute damage. and they need to stop piercing 100 at just size 2. it's already enough that they get this increased dropoff ranges.

 

[StiTch]

another stealth buff? because PA's aren't the all ends meta already, and because they aren't circumvennting most resistences, and basically having engineerign aroundheat is just another thing.

PA's need to stop applying absolute damage. and they need to stop piercing 100 at just size 2. it's already enough that they get this increased dropoff ranges.

I think you're theorycrafting by concentrating on their particular positives. Load up a PA boat and fight my iCourier, then tell me they're OP.

They are excellent against fat targets that cannot move well to help break through OP shields, but the OP shields need adjusting well before we consider a PA nerf.

EDIT: I do agree they should retain their offsets, though - as above in the thread, I hate the idea that we're progressively encouraged to forget thermal load and distributor draw actually exist. But PAs themselves are not inherently over the top.

 

[Aashenfox]

A firing rate and ammunition buff across the board would go some way toward addressing defensive inflation.

encouraged to forget thermal load and distributor draw actually exist. But PAs themselves are not inherently over the top.

This is why I'd be more in favour of removing heat buffs from grandfathered modules. They're already easy to use if you are actually you know, managing your ship, they don't need to become easier.