Ships Stealth ship - thoughts & recommendations

Mysturji

Mysturji
Not just any stealth ship using silent running and heat sinks. I want a ship that will run (in normal space and in SC) at less than 20% heat, but still has decent shields/defences & speed, and can still boost if necessary (though obviously that would take it over 20% heat without dropping a sink). Running away will most likely be necessary on occasion. Weapons are not.

A loooooong time ago, I did some experiments with a random, friendly Commander, and discovered that while Silent Running makes you untargettable, you still show up as a "dancing blip" on another CMDR's radar, but when your heat goes below 20% (e.g. heat-sink time), you disappear from their scanner completely. (I'm not sure if this is still the case... I assume so. I don't know if this also applies in SC, but I think probably not.)
My Asp Explorer has been outfitted and engineered for jump range and cool running, and runs at ~17% heat, but the shields are tissue, and a T9 could probably catch it.

I'm thinking probably either an Asp Scout or a Diamondback Scout with A-rated (but probably mostly undersized) everything, engineered for low emissions. I'm assuming that an A-rated ANYTHING is cooler than B, C, D or E.

Advice, guidance and suggestions from any Commanders with experience playing around with this would be appreciated.
 

Mystweaver

Mystweaver
You want systems that generate as little heat as possible and you will ideally want to Low Emissions 3 - engineer your powerplant.

A is necessary for powerplant (as they have the best efficiency). I think however, on other systems, having their power output as low as possible will allow you to keep under 20% with minimal thrust.

You may also want to consider clean drives and focus on getting the thermal load down as low as possible (probably to the detriment to speed (though you will still be faster than stock thrusters - especially grade 5).

Low power shields will the be a necessity and if you plan on using shield boosters your likely restricted to E's and specific resistances (as your power output will be low).
 

Lucius-Darcia

Lucius-Darcia
Shields AND lesser than 20% heat won't work. Shields are one of the main heat sources.
If you really wanna stay below 20%, you'll need to build a hull tank. This would be quite expensive, reactive surface composite with a very good roll on thermal resistance is the basis of such a ship. Than clean drives grade 5 and of course low emission powerplant grade 3. Efficient multicannons etc....

Silent running will be expensive and definitly a hull tank. Can't suggest it for PvP ;)
 
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StiTch

StiTch
Lucius-Darcia said:
Shields AND lesser than 20% heat won't work. Shields are one of the main heat sources.
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This is the main crux of your issue. Now you probably could achieve this with ease using a DBS/DBX, but I believe you specified good shields.

If I push for cool standard running I'll typically get a ship to run in the mid to high 20s. Am fairly sure you could try drag this down lower with some well-considered modding, but I believe you're going to be making some sort of a concession.

Perhaps this would be easier if we knew what your ship is intended to be used for? Or is it just a general "enjoy yourself" sort of affair?
 

Mysturji

Mysturji
Mystweaver said:
You want systems that generate as little heat as possible and you will ideally want to Low Emissions 3 - engineer your powerplant.

A is necessary for powerplant (as they have the best efficiency). I think however, on other systems, having their power output as low as possible will allow you to keep under 20% with minimal thrust.

You may also want to consider clean drives and focus on getting the thermal load down as low as possible (probably to the detriment to speed (though you will still be faster than stock thrusters - especially grade 5).

Low power shields will the be a necessity and if you plan on using shield boosters your likely restricted to E's and specific resistances (as your power output will be low).
Click to expand...
Choosing for low power is a good point. Low emissions PP and clean drives are a given, but should the PP be undersized (if possible, while still powering everything I need)?

Lucius-Darcia said:
Shields AND lesser than 20% heat won't work. Shields are one of the main heat sources.
If you really wanna stay below 20%, you'll need to build a hull tank. This would be quite expensive, reactive surface composite with a very good roll on thermal resistance is the basis of such a ship. Than clean drives grade 4 and of course low emission powerplant grade 3. Efficient multicannons etc....

Silent running will be expensive and definitly a hull tank. Can't suggest it for PvP ;)
Click to expand...
My AspX has A-grade Low emissions PP, D-grade Low power enhanced shields and D-grade clean drives (all as small as possible) and runs in normal space at 17% heat. I think it's 18% in SC away from a star. Good point about hull tanking, but that would mean I need bigger engines. Would the shields/thrusters trade off be cooler (assuming undersized clean drives are adequate with shields)?
I don't intend to use silent running, because no shields, the need for heatsinks, and dancing blips.
G4 Clean drives? ... Not G5?

StiTch said:
This is the main crux of your issue. Now you probably could achieve this with ease using a DBS/DBX, but I believe you specified good shields.

If I push for cool standard running I'll typically get a ship to run in the mid to high 20s. Am fairly sure you could try drag this down lower with some well-considered modding, but I believe you're going to be making some sort of a concession.

Perhaps this would be easier if we knew what your ship is intended to be used for? Or is it just a general "enjoy yourself" sort of affair?
Click to expand...

Well, as-good-as-possible shields, while staying under 20% heat, just in case. I could also save power/heat with an undersized FSD, as range isn't a consideration beyond reaching the next system.

Why?
Well, partly for smuggling, but mainly: I want a ship for covert surveillance/intelligence-gathering which won't show up on scanners, but can still run away if eyeballed. Let's just say "Winter is coming". ;)

+rep to all
 

Lucius-Darcia

Lucius-Darcia
The grade 4 was a typo O: of course grade 5 ;)

the low emission powerplant shouldn't be undersized. the closer you get to 100% usage of MW, the hotter you run so better stay below 80%.
A-classed thrusters or D-classed.....hmm depending on powerplant i would say, see above^^
IF (!) you really can run shields, don't use D-class ones but better Bi-weaves. but as soon as you loose integrity and they recharge, you generate heat! no matter which sort of shields you use at the end. but you can reduce the heat-time (reload-time) massively with bi-weaves compared to D-class to get faster back to the cool-mode

well....at the end it really depends which ship it should be. I have in mind the Python or FDL because they can use oversized powerplants to apply grade 3 low emission without heavy trade-off and can still stay at 80% usage for even lesser heat.
 
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Mysturji

Mysturji
I had a play on Coriolis with all the ship candidates, and if power usage is anything to go by, the FdL looks like the best choice.
https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/fer...==.Aw18aQ==..MwelAYUgOECYAsICmBDA5gG2SEBGcQoA

I didn't even have to compromise on anything. No engineering on this loadout, but choosing the right mods can only make it better.
What I need now is another Beta so I can try out various ships & builds & mods without bankrupting myself.
Thanks.
 

Evil_Merlin

Evil_Merlin
Right now with a 6A reactor and 6C Bi-weaves my Python runs at 23% (it may be 25%, not at home cannot confirm).

A very cool runner.

I have updated the hull with Hull Reinforcements so its tough nut to crack.

That being said, I'm having a bear of a time getting my thrusters updated from the C to A's I really want in them, so I'm willing to bet moving to A's may drop my heat even a little more.
 

ChiefRedCloud

ChiefRedCloud
And have it specially engineered from Alien Technology right? The kind hard to find and rare enough for someone to want to take it away from you if they can. Sounds fine to me but Alien tech should have some unknown possible (roll of the die) side effects or errors to go wrong or right (i.e. exceed specs).

Chief
 

Deleted member 110222

D
I run shieldless in a Cobra Mk III.

Not necessarily stealth, but it can do SR for brief stints, and I have an HSL just in case I need more zero-time.

Shields are over-rated. :)
 

Mysturji

Mysturji
I'd like to introduce "Secret Squirrel": https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/fer...w18aQ==..EwOgrA9KkIwQDBAHAiBTAhgcwDZohDPMUA==

I tried different power distributors - 1A, 5A&D and 6A&D and there was no real difference heat-wise, so I went for a MOAR POWAR 6A.
Likewise, the scanner grade made little or no difference, so I went A-rated., I also added a couple of point defence turrets, just in case.
Completely un-engineered, it runs at 24% heat. (19% if I turn off the shields and unnecessary modules.)
May RNGsus look favourably on my rolls.


PS. The coriolis.io power stats are off. It's more like 75% power consumption.
 
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StiTch

StiTch
Mysturji said:
Does anyone know the significance of the 40% power line on coriolis.io? I'm thinking it might be <20% heat?
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40% power is what your PP outputs when malfunctioning. Yes, Mysturji, your PP outputs 10% more power when destroyed than when malfunctioning. No, don't question it. Please.

Note: when your PP starts to throw a wobbly, it briefly dips to 10% output, so if you can fit your shields under 10% power set them as the only thing at priority 1 and your shields should never drop during any malfunction, and if shields are down when you have a malfunction shouldn't lose their recharge towards being full.

EDIT: The power stats on coriolis are never off ;) Are you sure it's not because you have two blank utility slots in that link and your PD/fuel scoop are disabled?
 
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Mysturji

Mysturji
The RNGods hate me. :( She's pretty much fully engineered now - I had some really crappy rolls and ran out of certain mats - and hovering ~20% give or take 1 or 2 depending on her mood.)
I guess I'll have to downsize the thrusters.
Also, for RP reasons I thought she should have every kind of scanner available. (Well, she is a covert surveillance & intelligence gathering spy ship, as well as a part-time smuggler and perhaps occasionally an ambushing assassin/bounty hunter.)
Are A-rated scanners (KWS,FSW, manifest scanner) more heat-efficient that C, D, or E grade?

StiTch said:
40% power is what your PP outputs when malfunctioning. Yes, Mysturji, your PP outputs 10% more power when destroyed than when malfunctioning. No, don't question it. Please.

Note: when your PP starts to throw a wobbly, it briefly dips to 10% output, so if you can fit your shields under 10% power set them as the only thing at priority 1 and your shields should never drop during any malfunction, and if shields are down when you have a malfunction shouldn't lose their recharge towards being full.

EDIT: The power stats on coriolis are never off ;) Are you sure it's not because you have two blank utility slots in that link and your PD/fuel scoop are disabled?
Click to expand...

+virtual rep for the 40% thing and the shield priority thing, as I can't rep you now.
I was sure to set all modules on/off as shown in the previous coriolis build. Of course, engineering has now skewed the stats considerably, but with everything on...
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9pw30OS.png
 

Mysturji

Mysturji
I was going to go for 4A thrusters until I wondered which would be most heat-efficient: 5D or 4A? It looks like 5D is the better choice as far as performance, mass and power consumption go.
 

Mysturji

Mysturji
Well, after engineering, re-engineering, and in some cases re-re-engineering (maybe even re-re-re-engineering) all relevant modules, the best I can get is 17% , even with unnecessary modules turned off (and that includes FSD). But if I also temporarily turn off my thrusters, it goes down to 10%, then goes back up to 15%, which I'm happy with - I suppose stealth shouldn't be too easy.
Time for some testing. :)
 

StiTch

StiTch
Mysturji said:
Well, after engineering, re-engineering, and in some cases re-re-engineering (maybe even re-re-re-engineering) all relevant modules, the best I can get is 17% , even with unnecessary modules turned off (and that includes FSD). But if I also temporarily turn off my thrusters, it goes down to 10%, then goes back up to 15%, which I'm happy with - I suppose stealth shouldn't be too easy.
Time for some testing. :)
Click to expand...

Dude, 17% is seriously cool running. Good effort. I generally consider it difficult to break below the 20% heat benchmark without losing shields and a number of other things.

Make sure you have clean drives, but regarding class of thrusters, I don't think you'd see much difference between the 5D and 4A. I'd personally run 5D if you did want to avoid using 5A though.

Regarding scanners, the only heat difference they will make is if they hog your power. So probably avoid A-rated, which generally have disproportionately high power consumption, and keeping a low power profile is good for your heat.
 

K-Rose

K-Rose
Mysturji said:
Well, after engineering, re-engineering, and in some cases re-re-engineering (maybe even re-re-re-engineering) all relevant modules, the best I can get is 17% , even with unnecessary modules turned off (and that includes FSD). But if I also temporarily turn off my thrusters, it goes down to 10%, then goes back up to 15%, which I'm happy with - I suppose stealth shouldn't be too easy.
Time for some testing. :)
Click to expand...

If you want to be a true god among Elite players you'll test each and every ship, engineering every one of them and detailing the coldest you can get each one of them :)

(don't do this, it'd probably melt your brain...)
 
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