Still the wrong hologram... that can't be intentional.
- Thread starter lemny
- Start date
The arrows appear when the station is targetted instead of just selected as a destination. You can do that in supercruise but you'll need to be close enough to pick it out from what it's orbiting - edit, I'll need to check on that one, whether you can target it in supercruise.
As a guide the entrance is usually pointing approximately towards the planet.
As a guide the entrance is usually pointing approximately towards the planet.
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If you visualize the station's orbital plane (the plane defined by the blue and red lines in the picture below) and extend a line orthogonal to this plane, that passes through the center of the planet (green one), the station's entrance will be facing a point along that line such that the station will be angled 45° away ("up") from its orbital plane inwards (the angle between the blue and cyan lines in 45°):
This means that if you can't see the station entrance on the supercruise hologram, you are approaching from the wrong hemisphere or from behind. Approaching from an angle (to observe how the oval of the orbital plane evolves) will then let you know whether you're in the wrong hemisphere or coming from behind.
This means that if you can't see the station entrance on the supercruise hologram, you are approaching from the wrong hemisphere or from behind. Approaching from an angle (to observe how the oval of the orbital plane evolves) will then let you know whether you're in the wrong hemisphere or coming from behind.
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I raised a bug for this a long time ago (well, shortly after they added the feature, anyway). It was responded to as being by design. I made the point that it was a fairly crap design, but there we are...
EDIT: Sorry, I actually raised a different bug. The hologram is often of the wrong type of station. I didn't realise it was the arrows that you were missing - I don't mind those not appearing, as the mailslot does (which means you can work out where you need to go).
EDIT: Sorry, I actually raised a different bug. The hologram is often of the wrong type of station. I didn't realise it was the arrows that you were missing - I don't mind those not appearing, as the mailslot does (which means you can work out where you need to go).
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I know that, but I don't get why they simply use the same holo in supercruise.
While docking it's ten times easier so see because of the rotation and we get arrows to make it even easier.
And by the way... facing always towards the planet makes no sense at all, because they are all rotating on another axis fast.
An additional rotation while orbiting will result in tumbling or needs a permanent correction with thrusters of some kind.
While docking it's ten times easier so see because of the rotation and we get arrows to make it even easier.
And by the way... facing always towards the planet makes no sense at all, because they are all rotating on another axis fast.
An additional rotation while orbiting will result in tumbling or needs a permanent correction with thrusters of some kind.
The ISS manages to maintain its orientation, so it shouldn't be an issue in 1300 years' time even with something much bigger. Tidal locking would do it too but I doubt the stations are long enough for there to be enough of a force.
Would make more sense to use the same hologram though.
![[VR] Enexemander](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/119/119036.jpg?1621636716){kind=avatar}
TBH I never use the arrows and find them confusing. I either approach the mailslot from supercruise using the method Jukelo was nice enough to illustrate, or I just drop in anywhere and use the knowledge that the back end has red lights and fly to the front.
You don't get it
...the ISS has only one rotation axis and it's synchronized with it's orbit. You don't need any constant force for that.But the stations in Elite are rotating on a an additional perpendicular axis.
ahh... you are be right. But the other generic models have a clear visual language, why not using this as the default holo for SC.
Oh, I agree.
If it's going to display a "coriolis station" with a mailslot, it might as well display the arrows too... in which case it might as well just use the "proper" model.
Given that the models are different, and they aren't accurate depictions of the actual stations, I wonder if the system that displays stations in SC is completely separate from the stuff used in real space?
Also, while I'm being picky, how come the stations in SC aren't rotating?
The ISS still needs to make regular adjustments to maintain that alignment (using momentum stored in gyroscopes, then propellant when that's consumed). It's also in low enough orbit that it's got more other effects (e.g. a little bit of atmospheric drag), so whilst it doesn't need to be constantly adjusting, which is just as well otherwise it would need many more resupply missions, it's still effectively capable of correcting for any rotational forces. With 1300 years of advances the propellant resources required to keep a station roughly the way around you want shouldn't be an issue. Why bother doing it at all is a different question.You don't get it
But the stations in Elite are rotating on a an additional perpendicular axis.
That's the point.
Why would you like permanently correcting already rotating millions of tons of steel?
Is it really that much of a problem to find the slot in SC without arrows? Back in ye olden times we didn't even have the slot show up on the hologram and yet we could still drop in front of the slot if we wanted to. Stations usually point their slot towards the planet or the star that they are orbiting.
Many things in the game are "not that difficult" without these nice convenient functions we got with every patch. But they are there and we are happy about it.
And this one is a simple swap of a heavily used holo model with a nice benefit for the game.
Unless I'm in a particular hurry, I just wiggle the nose around as I'm leaving the insertion point till the entrance shows, then I line it up as I'm cruising in. It makes a minimal difference to cruise time, and gives you something to do on the drag out to more distant stations.
I agree with the OP; simple QoL improvement that would require next to no effort to implement.
...and on a related note, I find the way holos orientate themselves to be highly unintuitive.
I get what they're doing (compositing your own ship's orientation vector along with the ship->target vector + target orientation vector)
and I (sort of) get why they're implemented it this way (so when you're far away in super cruise, you can rotate your ship to examine the faces of a targeted station to find the mail slot),
However when you're performing a maneuver, the holo representation becomes almost completely useless for judging your relative position to the target. (especially when the station is beyond your field of view).
As for why the same matrix composition is used in regular flight; I've no clue, it makes judging the facing of an enemy ship that's beyond your FoV borderline impossible in a dogfight.
In my many years of playing sims (space & flight) I can't think of a single game that's done holo projections/virtual target displays this way.
The holo display should simply be "what you'd see if you turned your head and looked directly at the targeted ship", a.k.a. a 'gun cam'.
It should be completely independent of your ship's own facing.
Has this never been raised as an issue by alpha/beta testers?
It seems such a departure from conventional wisdom, that I'd have expected an outcry.
It certainly hurts my situational awareness in combat, to the point where the actual holo representation is worthless information.
:edit:
Ah, looks like I'm not the 1st to spot this very odd design choice:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-the-target-hologram-POV-completely-messed-up
and this:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...on-HUD-element-Anyone-else-find-it-misleading
...and on a related note, I find the way holos orientate themselves to be highly unintuitive.
I get what they're doing (compositing your own ship's orientation vector along with the ship->target vector + target orientation vector)
and I (sort of) get why they're implemented it this way (so when you're far away in super cruise, you can rotate your ship to examine the faces of a targeted station to find the mail slot),
However when you're performing a maneuver, the holo representation becomes almost completely useless for judging your relative position to the target. (especially when the station is beyond your field of view).
As for why the same matrix composition is used in regular flight; I've no clue, it makes judging the facing of an enemy ship that's beyond your FoV borderline impossible in a dogfight.
In my many years of playing sims (space & flight) I can't think of a single game that's done holo projections/virtual target displays this way.
The holo display should simply be "what you'd see if you turned your head and looked directly at the targeted ship", a.k.a. a 'gun cam'.
It should be completely independent of your ship's own facing.
Has this never been raised as an issue by alpha/beta testers?
It seems such a departure from conventional wisdom, that I'd have expected an outcry.
It certainly hurts my situational awareness in combat, to the point where the actual holo representation is worthless information.
:edit:
Ah, looks like I'm not the 1st to spot this very odd design choice:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-the-target-hologram-POV-completely-messed-up
and this:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...on-HUD-element-Anyone-else-find-it-misleading
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Yeah, this subject comes up every once in a while. This post was the closest I came to explaining it in a "real world" context but it's still confusing until the penny drops. I'm talking mostly about ships in that post, but it applies equally to stations since they implemented the moving station hologram in supercruise.
I agree with the OP that the arrows would be nice. Most times they're not necessary because it doesn't take much movement in supercruise to determine where the slot is on the hologram. But sometimes -- yesterday afternoon in the mining CG was a prime example -- the slot is on one of the station faces that's oriented away from the hyperspace arrival point, and it's necessary to fly a series of lazy S-curves in supercruise to be absolutely certain which face you should be curving towards. (It doesn't help that the station orbits a particularly massive world; getting this wrong can mean a significant delay if you get too close to the gravity well).
Arrows on the hologram would definitely help here.
My first reaction to that was that it would introduce extra movement in the hologram unrelated to the ship's movements, and so add another layer of confusion. But thinking about it a bit more, it would be just as useful as the arrows because all stations rotate counterclockwise. And it would be more analogous to the targeting hologram we get in normal space (albeit a generic representation).
All of this could be avoided if FD just gave us the same local target hologram in supercruise so at a single glance we could see orientation, rotation and configuration (no more surprise noobhammers when we drop out). They must have a solid reason for not doing this. I'm guessing there are two completely different blocks of code handling the supercruise and real space instances and that even the visual assets aren't compatible at the moment.
I agree with the OP that the arrows would be nice. Most times they're not necessary because it doesn't take much movement in supercruise to determine where the slot is on the hologram. But sometimes -- yesterday afternoon in the mining CG was a prime example -- the slot is on one of the station faces that's oriented away from the hyperspace arrival point, and it's necessary to fly a series of lazy S-curves in supercruise to be absolutely certain which face you should be curving towards. (It doesn't help that the station orbits a particularly massive world; getting this wrong can mean a significant delay if you get too close to the gravity well).
Arrows on the hologram would definitely help here.
Also, while I'm being picky, how come the stations in SC aren't rotating?
My first reaction to that was that it would introduce extra movement in the hologram unrelated to the ship's movements, and so add another layer of confusion. But thinking about it a bit more, it would be just as useful as the arrows because all stations rotate counterclockwise. And it would be more analogous to the targeting hologram we get in normal space (albeit a generic representation).
All of this could be avoided if FD just gave us the same local target hologram in supercruise so at a single glance we could see orientation, rotation and configuration (no more surprise noobhammers when we drop out). They must have a solid reason for not doing this. I'm guessing there are two completely different blocks of code handling the supercruise and real space instances and that even the visual assets aren't compatible at the moment.