Stimpacks and Exobiology

[Shurimal]

It's all about presentation. Skyrim is magic, potions are magic. Once you start talking about toxicity and deriving stuff from plants (as opposed to unicorn farts and fairy tears), it's not magic. Remove the mention of toxicity and its plant only derivation and you might get past the censors.

In Skyrim you do make potions from plants and mushrooms (including fly amanita, which IRL is known for hallucinogenic properties—I don't recommend anyone to try, though, the damn thing may kill you, too) and it is very possible to make potions that have negative ("toxic") side effects. Some of these toxic potions grant the most alchemy exp and many are still useful for consumption because the negative effect is manageable.

Not to mention mead, ale, wine, skooma and sleeping tree sap aka proto-hist sap, but now I'm veering awfully close to the Elder Scrolls lore rabbit hole. Let's just say that the rumor Ysolda dismissed as nonsense is actually fact, Clavicus Vile was involved in some grand shenanigans and the hist originate from beyond Mundus. Plus whatever the hell Kesh makes you inhale to communicate with Peryite

So, yeah, brewing frutexa tinctures and osseus elixirs would be perfectly fine and family-friendly even if unrefined versions will cause your character to lose all aiming accuracy while increasing sprinting distance by +100% for 30 seconds

 

[metatheurgist]

Skyrim also has dragons, spells, vampires and werewolves. It's literally fantasy. it's the product of drug taking, not drug taking.

 

[Jmanis]

In Skyrim you do make potions from plants and mushrooms (including fly amanita, which IRL is known for hallucinogenic properties—I don't recommend anyone to try, though, the damn thing may kill you, too) and it is very possible to make potions that have negative ("toxic") side effects. Some of these toxic potions grant the most alchemy exp and many are still useful for consumption because the negative effect is manageable.

Not to mention mead, ale, wine, skooma and sleeping tree sap aka proto-hist sap, but now I'm veering awfully close to the Elder Scrolls lore rabbit hole. Let's just say that the rumor Ysolda dismissed as nonsense is actually fact, Clavicus Vile was involved in some grand shenanigans and the hist originate from beyond Mundus. Plus whatever the hell Kesh makes you inhale to communicate with Peryite

So, yeah, brewing frutexa tinctures and osseus elixirs would be perfectly fine and family-friendly even if unrefined versions will cause your character to lose all aiming accuracy while increasing sprinting distance by +100% for 30 seconds

Good thing Skyrim is ESRB 17 / PEGI 18 then

I'd just flag (not directly to you @Shurimal , that first line is the only thing I quoted your comment for), I'm not here to support the case I presented before, Australia's media classification system... only pointing out that flaws and all, they've got a track record for banning drug use when it's presented in a way that might reflect anything even remotely looking like comparable modern drug use.

If people want to argue the logic, by all means, go tell them your thoughts. No need to convince me that a "potion of great strength" is just drug use by another name... but doesn't change the fact they don't see it the same way. They're really inconsistent to boot.

Take this one for example:

Banned because of drug use related to incentives and rewards.
A censored version that changes the drugs to vitamins was later released with an R18+.

Yup. It really is that dumb. As @metatheurgist said, it's about the presentation.

 

[Frankymole]

Media regulators make a distinction between drug trade and drug use. Not that it makes any sense but they do. There is also slave trade in ED, that seems even more dodgy to me.

Not to mention drug smuggling and gun running.

 

[DemiserofD]

Interesting. Well, probably the simplest work around for any legal shenanigans would be to make them suit enhancers, rather than player enhancers. You inject them into your suit's power supply somehow, and it gives your suit a boost.

With a flick of our linguistic wand, drugs become something different entirely!

 

[Shurimal]

Good thing Skyrim is ESRB 17 / PEGI 18 then

Well, Elder Scrolls series is the only fantasy RPG I have played thousands of hours so that's what I am qualified to talk about. I've no idea what alphabet soup ratings any of the games I have played are, what with being almost 40 and having a strong stomach (something that studying biology in uni inevitably results in) But potions and alchemy is a big part of pretty much all RPG-s.

I'd just flag (not directly to you @Shurimal , that first line is the only thing I quoted your comment for), I'm not here to support the case I presented before, Australia's media classification system... only pointing out that flaws and all, they've got a track record for banning drug use when it's presented in a way that might reflect anything even remotely looking like comparable modern drug use.

That's Australia's problem; the rest of the world can't bend everything to fit into one country's bad legislature Also, when I look at the list, eg Witcher II was not banned because of potions/drug use, but nudity. So I don't think presenting hypothetical Odyssey herbal tinctures and elixirs as potions would pose a problem. Also also, in some other cases (Disco Elysium) explicit drug (not potion!) use having a negative effect on player was enough to overturn a ban. As for Fallout ban it was directly due to use of the term morphine--dumb, since morphine used to be a really common painkiller historically, but renaming the opioid-in-question to some fictional moniker fixed the problem. So again, as long as hypothetical flora-derived caffeine-like stimulants and healing-factor boosting tinctures are given fictional names that are not associated with real-world recreational drugs, it would work. Eg "Speed" would be bad, but "Sprintex" would be fine.

 

[metatheurgist]

Every fantasy RPG I've played that isn't Skyrim doesn't have negative effects for potions.

 

[rootsrat]

Every fantasy RPG I've played that isn't Skyrim doesn't have negative effects for potions.

The Witcher 3, Dark Souls, Dragon Age: Origins, Divinity: Original Sin 2...

 

[Jmanis]

Well, Elder Scrolls series is the only fantasy RPG I have played thousands of hours so that's what I am qualified to talk about. I've no idea what alphabet soup ratings any of the games I have played are, what with being almost 40 and having a strong stomach (something that studying biology in uni inevitably results in) But potions and alchemy is a big part of pretty much all RPG-s.

That's Australia's problem; the rest of the world can't bend everything to fit into one country's bad legislature Also, when I look at the list, eg Witcher II was not banned because of potions/drug use, but nudity. So I don't think presenting hypothetical Odyssey herbal tinctures and elixirs as potions would pose a problem. Also also, in some other cases (Disco Elysium) explicit drug (not potion!) use having a negative effect on player was enough to overturn a ban. As for Fallout ban it was directly due to use of the term morphine--dumb, since morphine used to be a really common painkiller historically, but renaming the opioid-in-question to some fictional moniker fixed the problem. So again, as long as hypothetical flora-derived caffeine-like stimulants and healing-factor boosting tinctures are given fictional names that are not associated with real-world recreational drugs, it would work. Eg "Speed" would be bad, but "Sprintex" would be fine.

Did anyone suggest that though?

Again, I'm not here to back Australia's Classification Standards. The only people who need to follow Australian legislation are businesses who want to serve their products in Australia.. that's decidedly very much the company's problem in that situation. FD serves their product in Australia, so they need to follow it, or risk be refused classification (which means they can't distribute), thus the image I posted.

That said, don't underestimate the power of being denied the opportunity to turn profits for publishers to force dumb decisions onto developers. C&C Generals and Germany was a great example, where the rest of the world[1] sees this:

Spoiler

... while Germany sees this (along with a few unit modifications):

Spoiler

Because of rules around the "glorification of war" there, all characters became cyborgs, blood became "green oil" and units like the suicide bomber were replaced with a "bomb on wheels" (which caused great confusion about a perceived "bug" where you could put that unit onto a motorbike... made sense with the suicide bomber, not the "bomb on wheels" though)

But again, I'm under no illusions of how terrible the Australian legislation is... but when games like Rimworld can be (temporarily) banned for the portrayal of drug use which is about as simple a use case as you can get, in ignorance of some of the broader atrocities I can commit in that game[2]... it's definitely a consideration for businesses who choose to distribute in Australia, and when you're talking about that, the people involved generally don't care two licks about the game experience, rather it's all about profits.

Bottom line for all that: Suggestions for drug use probably won't fly, so like you and DemiserofD are saying:

Interesting. Well, probably the simplest work around for any legal shenanigans would be to make them suit enhancers, rather than player enhancers. You inject them into your suit's power supply somehow, and it gives your suit a boost.

With a flick of our linguistic wand, drugs become something different entirely!

Conversely, the whole "can't stun people" ESRB stuff probably wouldn't be an issue in Australia, so it's horses-for-courses.

The impression I get is that Frontier nowadays are just hoping that this is buried deeply enough into bits of the game which aren't immediately obvious, so that no-one important notices.

100% this. There's no way to say this without sounding disparaging, but FD could probably introduce it and fly completely under the radar.

[1] Except for china
[2] Another one where the saving grace was the negative effects of the drugs. Now, BRB, off to take the legs off a captive vampire and turn them into an unwilling IVF farm...

 

[metatheurgist]

The Witcher 3, Dark Souls, Dragon Age: Origins, Divinity: Original Sin 2...

Does not invalidate my statement. And I don't recall DAO having negative potion effects, but it was a while ago.

 

[Shurimal]

Bottom line for all that: Suggestions for drug use probably won't fly

That's my point, too: depicting drug use won't probably fly, especially if you use real-world substance names (Fallout 3 and morphine). But drugs and (magic) potions are very different things in games. It's one thing if your character snorts white powder that blurs your vision and makes colors on screen more intense; it's completely another thing if your character drinks a liquid you crafted from two flowers that restores and boosts stamina. First is clearly drug use even if the powder is named not "Coke" but something completely fictional, the second is common (fantasy) video game trope. Witcher II was not banned in Australia because of magic potions, but for nudity. And I didn't find Final Fantasy, Elder Scrolls or any other fantasy game that has potion crafting and usage in that list (though Elder Scrolls clearly even has fantasy drugs in it in addition to potions).

Bottom line, the idea of crafting consumables that heal and boost your stats from Odyssey plant life can be done and has most probably no legal problems if presented properly as fantasy alchemy/potion trope adopted to a sci-fi setting. You can even name them "potions" in game and add lore explanation that the scientist who discovered this is a huge fan of ancient and revered D'n'D games, especially the vintage 97th edition

 

[Fizzatron]

PEGI has a very broad exemption for the depiction of horrific acts if the game goes far enough to sanitise them.

So ED Horizons can have slaves at PEGI-7 precisely because "slaves are just the same as any other cargo" is the in-game implementation and (near)universal NPC consensus and you never get to see or question or interact with any of the consequences of that. Conversely PEGI-16 wouldn't be sufficient to actually allow you to meet any in Odyssey, so you can't.

The impression I get is that Frontier nowadays are just hoping that this is buried deeply enough into bits of the game which aren't immediately obvious, so that no-one important notices.

And then there's Rimworld..