Subscriptions?

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
The balance between expansion ownership does raze the question of P2W, if they introduce weapons or modules that can only be accessed through owning the expansions then that will be a bit of a let down, lets hope they don't go down that route.

The first potential example of this doesn't seem to have though - existing (first year) players who buy Horizons will not be required to unlock the Cobra Mk IV. The use of the word "unlock" implies that other players will be able to unlock the ship (in a manner not too dissimilar to the Imperial Clipper possibly). Therefore not P2W, in my opinion.
 
When the second Horizons expansion is released the "looting & crafting" will surely divide the player base even further without the "exclusive content" from planetary/moon landings. And when season three releases after Horizons then the divide is surely go grow even greater. If the crafting is to create better ship modules (weapons, thrusters etc) then it will become pay to win in Open mode. So solo mode then for those who stay with Season one content and Open for the rest...
 
When the second Horizons expansion is released the "looting & crafting" will surely divide the player base even further without the "exclusive content" from planetary/moon landings. And when season three releases after Horizons then the divide is surely go grow even greater. If the crafting is to create better ship modules (weapons, thrusters etc) then it will become pay to win in Open mode. So solo mode then for those who stay with Season one content and Open for the rest...

Or just increased combat logging in disgust... lol
 
When the second Horizons expansion is released the "looting & crafting" will surely divide the player base even further without the "exclusive content" from planetary/moon landings. And when season three releases after Horizons then the divide is surely go grow even greater. If the crafting is to create better ship modules (weapons, thrusters etc) then it will become pay to win in Open mode. So solo mode then for those who stay with Season one content and Open for the rest...

I don't follow the logic here. Not saying you're wrong; I just don't understand. Why would looting and crafting lead to a pay-to-win situation in Open, such that the players who have purchased the expansions to date all go to Open?
 
Not a subscription... because the moment you "stop" paying... nothing different happens. :)

What, a bit like when you stop paying for a magazine subscription, you can re-read your existing old magazines but you don't get any new magazines aka content? ;)

There is more than one flavour of subscription.
 
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Don't see why people are complaining, all games drop in price as they age. Are those that bought the game 2 months ago complining that steam was selling it at a 33% reduction at the w/end?
 
The first potential example of this doesn't seem to have though - existing (first year) players who buy Horizons will not be required to unlock the Cobra Mk IV. The use of the word "unlock" implies that other players will be able to unlock the ship (in a manner not too dissimilar to the Imperial Clipper possibly). Therefore not P2W, in my opinion.

Hmm, maybe if you reach Elite in CQC it unlocks the Cobra IV, that'd be cool and give incentive to those that don't like PVP to get engaged.

Or Alliance ranks confirmed? :D <- I know its getting silly now, I can't help myself...
 
It's not a subscription model. I'd also point out that there's a great many people that don't seem to mind forking out £40 - £60 for Call of Battlefront of Honour 86 every three weeks. Just because it's got a label other than 'expansion' doesn't make it any less so. Same with Football Manager...a full price for what's essentially an update. Hell, would you call the two expansions for Civilisation V 'seasons' or 'expansions' or whatever? Just because FD are going to be releasing more expansions that most games do, doesn't make it a subscription service. They have a 10 year plan and they have every right to charge for it. The pricing model is a little weird, but it's not expensive...it's the price of about 12 coffees for what will be a year of add-ons. That sounds like a belter of a deal to me.
 
Are seasons subscriptions? There are some good semantics going either way in this thread.

I'm now treating seasons as subscriptions and I have the option of not renewing at the end of Horizons if it doesn't provide me with my money's worth. I'm reasonably sure it will but even if it does that doesn't necessarily mean that something else might not be monopolizing my time and interest instead of Elite.

Stumping up for a lifetime pass is putting too much faith in the developers and my on ongoing interest in this project. My advice is steer well clear of the lifetime expansion pass, do not give FD any more money than you have to. Once they have it you are a hostage to what is good for FD rather than what is good for you as their customer.

This isn't meant to cast FD as unethical money grubbers (I really don't think they are, honest) it's more about preserving what power I have as a consumer.
 
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Are seasons subscriptions? There are some good semantics going either way in this thread.

I'm now treating seasons as subscriptions and I have the option of not renewing at the end of Horizons if it doesn't provide me with my money's worth. I'm reasonably sure it will but even if it does that doesn't necessarily mean that something else might not be monopolizing my time and interest instead of Elite.

Stumping up for a lifetime pass is putting too much faith in the developers and my on ongoing interest in this project. My advice is steer well clear of the lifetime expansion pass, do not give FD any more money than you have to. Once they have it you are a hostage to what is good for FD rather than what is good for you as their customer.

This isn't meant to cast FD as unethical money grubbers (I really don't think they are, honest) it's more about preserving what power I have as a consumer.

Hopefully this will make it clear, we are talking video game subscription, not magazine/newsletter/physical media:
Subscription: Paying monthly to be able to play the game. (Eve, WOW etc)
Expansion: Paying a one time fee for an agreed amount of additional content.

Basically you can ignore an expansion and stick to the basic game. Once you pay the £40 for Elite you can always access it, your account is not de-activated if you stop paying each month. So no the seasons are not subscriptions. Re-name them as update pack 1, 2, 3 etc if it helps.

I fully understand your point and its a good cautious way of approaching it. One could argue that a lot of what has been produced is of high quality, has a large scope and generally is delivering on promises within a degree of flexibility. You could also argue that it is not strictly following the DDF, has no roadmap and has buggy releases with rushed beta testing.
If you don't feel confident that's your decision and you have that right as any other not to buy it. I will, however, say that this is a bit unusual in the gaming industry in that the original founder of Elite has re-energised the series and from that respect I doubt it will be unfinished or of poor final quality. I honestly believe the final final game will be excellent and well worth the cash. I'd love it all the more if their last move was to make an offline mode and open up the Source kit for modding as a classy "alright, here's looking at you now". But I can only dream after my Skyrim games ;)
In the end yes it keeps power in your hands, you may even pick it up at discount after its all said and done. But if everyone did that we'd not have even got past kickstarter levels.
 
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Technically not a sub, as payment is not required to continue playing the game as it is right now.
 
I don't follow the logic here. Not saying you're wrong; I just don't understand. Why would looting and crafting lead to a pay-to-win situation in Open, such that the players who have purchased the expansions to date all go to Open?

I guess my wording was a bit hasty. What I mean is that in order to play in Open on a level playing field and assuming "crafting" would produce better modules for your ship then surely those that are still on Season 1 level will not be able to compete against an opponent with superior fittings. If half upgrage and half are new players buying straight into Horizons then you will be in the minority and unable to compete on the same level (skill levels being otherwise the same). So you would probably fair better in Solo mode with a more level playing field. Although I suspect that if you did play Open and you'd feel forced to move into Solo you would rather quit at that point....
 
Expansion: Paying a one time fee for an agreed amount of additional content.

Ok anyone know what's been agreed for this one time (until season 3) fee?

No, and I don't think FD know exactly themselves.

That's why I have a problem calling it an expansion on these terms and even more of a problem with the idea of what they want us to pay for a life time expansion pass.

The charge for Horizons with discount seems like a much more reasonable punt and leaves you with more options next time round.
 
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