Newcomer / Intro Suddenly hostile what did I do, what should I do?

[willowfan]

The Green Machines...

When I tried bounty hunting, I just thought that Wanted meant kill it. Then I found out that I was not liked because I was killing green... friendly to the Fed and me...

Space Time

The rep for killing a Wanted should outweigh the rep loss for killing a friendly.

 

[warlock]

The caught with stolen cargo part. That one KILLS your reputation. If you want to be goody2 with any faction, Do NOT get caught doing anything illegal in their watch. You can pay the fine easily, but the reputation drop is MASSIVE and it is done that way by design. Like how you have been the best doctor in the city for years, but ONE incident with that goat....

Very true that. Get caught with stolen cargo and it takes ages to raise your rep , have gone from friendly to neutral and back loads of times i have stopped dealing with stolen cargo at federation controlled stations now.

 

[the100thmonkey]

To suddenly go hostile with an otherwise neutral faction, you've done something very bad, you naughty boy.

Either suck it up and grind the rep back, or leave for Alliance, Empire or Independent space.

One or two Anaconda kill missions or a few (can't say how many; don't know) donation missions should get you back to neutral.

It's not particularly good design if it isn't transparent to the user how and why they have ended up hostile to a faction. Opaque might be a better word for it.

 

[andyraptor]

That's a better response.

Responses such as your earlier "If you can't work out basic sociAl interaction. ..don't blame the game " are less than helpful. There's a lesson in 'basic social interaction' for you

Having said that such responses were exactly what I was likely to be dishing out not so long ago as I was getting fed up with dumb idiots throwing their toys out the pram for not leaving enough rebuy credits, etc etc etc. And I used to (and still will I hope) defend Elite to the death (as a fan from the age of 10), but I am now beginning to get irked by what *seem* like flaws. It's fine if someone can say "yeah that's a flaw, tell the FD team", and I will gladly do so and be very impressed by the experience if it gets acknowledged and fixed, but the fact that noone can to this point figure out whether it's a flaw or the game mechanics, or bad design, or poor "basic social interaction" skills, is very telling indeed!

UPDATE for me: I had a quick try 30mins ago and was surrounded by Feds (ZERO bounty, ZERO cargo, STILL not wanted in the slightest, all legit) and of course they all come up as red. Then they said "Crime detected". What? What crime??? Other than them deciding they don't like me?? How's that a "crime"?? THEN even more bizarrely they said "You're all clear to go commander".

WHAT???

Either I've committed a crime or I haven't. If I *have* then a) what is that crime??? b) why are they saying I'm all clear to go?
If I haven't then a) why are they saying I have? and b) why are other feds in other areas randomly shooting at me?

My basic social interaction skills suggest to me something somewhere is not right.!

I have absolutely no idea and without having access to something like the upcoming "Wings" feature I can't come in and actually see what is happening to you....... can you hit F10 and post some screenies here ?


( what irks me... is people mis-using this part of the forum.... to vent, whimper, whimple and generally whine )

 

[andyraptor]

The main problem with Reputation is that we have no way to see where we are at and what does the things we do for them give us / remove reputation.

I think we should have a % number next to all minor/major factions telling us where we are with them (i.e 20% unfriendle, 80% neutral,....) not just a blue or red arrow

We when we are doing missions, i would love to see something like Reputation +0.5% or something like that
We we get a fine or a bounty, they should display something like -5% Reputation

I think, right now, the reputation is, like you say, is flawed.

And sorry if i can't articulate enough for you, english is my third language

As I'm no longer paid to use my German language skillz... I will stick to my native English and trying to get Astra to understand my West Country dialect.... and my French is well ..................


try a lexicon and look up the definition of the adjective "Articulate"

in the meantime the Suggestions Forum can be found here

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=76

top language skill but no sense of direction

 

[Quddus]

I have absolutely no idea and without having access to something like the upcoming "Wings" feature I can't come in and actually see what is happening to you....... can you hit F10 and post some screenies here ?


( what irks me... is people mis-using this part of the forum.... to vent, whimper, whimple and generally whine )

Cheers mate I understand it must be hard for people to know what's going on without being there. Are you like on the dev team or something? Sorry I didn't know.

I'll give it another go now as the wifey goes out to town and thinks I'm doing the tax return (hehe), and see if I can do this F10 thing and then post screenshots.

(I agree, I'd never whine at the genuine life work of someone as awesome as Braben and his team, unless I genuinely felt there was something wrong and others should have equal respect. I perhaps have been too harsh sometimes but that's my personal anger problem rather than my true feelings!)

 

[Rardain]

Hi Quddus, I sympathise with you on this issue as I too am hostile to the Federation, but in my case it happened after a week or so of being unfriendly to them. I play as a Mercenary in the game so basically anything for a payday other than piracy. I have been caught with illegal cargo's several times, accidentally shot security ships in the middle of battle and even been fined for idiotic 'clean' npc's flying into me and dying because they had no shields...I guess all this has gone towards making me hostile even though, like yourself, I paid of all my fines asap.


As I am deep in Federation space my immediate 'fix-it' plan was to do as many missions for Federation factions as possible. Whilst doing this for the local factions will at least get you back to an 'unfriendly' status and stop you getting shot at every two minutes, getting your galaxy-wide rep back up seems like it will take a long long time. I have been playing nice for the last 3 week, and am still hostile to the Federation which means every new system I visit will have at least one faction gunning for me.

I have found the best approach for me is to adopt a home system (mine being ROSS 210), get your local rep down from hostile then venture out from there. I do a lot of my bounty hunting in neutral systems with resource extraction sites where there are lots of pirates. I also make a note of who the Federation factions are in those systems and avoid hitting wanted npc's from those factions. The beauty of hunting in neutral systems is that your not normally tied to cashing in bounties at a Federal starport as they are usually issued by the independents in the system so that's one approach.

Also, most importantly, make sure your 'report crimes against me' option is set to on so if a Fed npc does decide to have a go at you it will bring down the local forces on them, leaving you free to scarper...after all, you are trying to avoid killing the npc's from the hostile faction. If you just cant get away from them, at least if the report crimes is on the first time they hit you they will become wanted, allowing you to legally fight back...most important!!!

I have done a few missions for the Fed Navy and am now a Warrant Officer, though still hostile to the Federation, which in itself is a bit of a contradiction. I have gained quite a few system passes by fulfilling these Navy missions but have yet to go to any of the systems listed.

The thing with this game is to view everything as a challenge. Yes, ok, its a pain being hostile but its not the end of the world and there are plenty of independent systems to hide out in if you don't want to stay in Federation space. I am quite toying with the idea of becoming a pirate just for the hell of it whilst making my way to the Imperial border, that way I can keep hopping into Fed space, upsetting the locals then hopping back to Imperial safety .

 

[Quddus]

Cypher that's a very helpful message thank you.

I don't fully understand it all though to be honest, i.e. how it can all work like that with the clear contradictions you mention etc.. It gets me thinking there is a bit of a flaw (or, much as I hate to say it to the developers who I respect, bad and confusing design??).

SO... UPDATE.. the plot thickens....:

I went out into fed space again.

again NOT wanted.
again NO cargo
again NO bounty on me, all screens on left and right are clean, nothing at all outstanding
still mysteriously hostile to Feds

I cruise around and I get to a bunch of ships. Sure enough the Feds show up as red and as above they say "crime detected". Of course as I before I've done NO crime and am NOT showing up as wanted. But anyway same old story with the comms message coming saying "Crime detected" then "Attack run" etc... I just sit there and wait. Then once again the confusing verdict "You're all clean commander, you're free to go"

So I've already described this confusing anomaly above, but this time I decided to wait longer.

I wait and wait and sure enough "Crime detected" again followed by "Die Freebooter!" and they pew pew at me.

I wait and take the hits. STILL no wanted sign, STILL done nothing wrong, STILL no bounties or anythign against me.

I think to myself ok, I these guys seem a bit schizo, one second they reckon I've committed a crime, the next second they say I'm free to go, then next second they decide I'm a freebooter, whilst the whole time I'm not showing up as wanted or carrying anything, with no outstanding fines etc etc. You get the picture. So then I think "ok you know what? I'm a spiritual sort of chappie, turn the other cheek and all of that... I'll help these guys out even though they're total willy heads." There are three Feds and one random "wanted" guy out there so I ignore the Feds who are mysteriously shooting at me and decide instead to help them out with the wanted guy. I blast the wanted guy to smithereens and get some reward and then just sit there. Sure enough they start pew pewing at me. So I think "I like you guys, I've got nothing against you guys, I ain't gonna do nothing." But they continue with their "You will die" malarkey. I don't respond.

Then some other randomer seems to enter the space and he's another actual wanted chappie. So again I think "ok I'll help the Feds out AGAIN and who knows, maybe one of them has a conscience and thinks 'this poor chap isn't even wanted, and he's risking his life to help us.. perhaps we should reevaluate him?'" So yeah, I help the Feds out and finally kill the actual wanted guy *BUT* sods law, just as I kill this guy despite being very careful one of the flakes of paint from one of my bullets chips off and accidentally skims a Fed in what can only ironically be called 'friendly fire'.

So as you can imagine, these idiot Feds who were shooting at me when I did nothing wrong and wasn't even wanted now have a field day and.... continue doing as they were doing before by shooting at me.

But here's the interesting: IT'S ONLY AT THAT POINT THEY SUDDENLY DECIDE I'M "WANTED". !!?

So I think "ok now they *actually* have a reason to shoot at me, fair cop. I'd best get outta here and pay my 400Cr fine off"

So I go off to Boswell Platform (a Fed platform in Fed space).

Bizarrely, despite being allegedly HOSTILE *and* WANTED *and* with a FINE on my head they.... accept !

So ok I think "that's nice" and land, with the intention as ever to pay off the measly fine asap.. and claim my 50,000 reward.

I dock in, go to contacts, and first thing go to pay the fines but... erm... I don't have a fine !!!!????

There's nothing there!!!

I flick through all the screens and yeah I see my reward but i don't see any fines or anything.

I collect my reward and, well I'm still in the station. I look in the system's menu and even more bizarrely I'm still hostile with the Feds but there's a blue arrow pointing upwards next to it, so that suggests that perhaps they're beginning to like me a little?

Even more bizarrely than that however it lists a 400Cr bounty on my head.

BUT IT'S NOWHERE IN THE CONTACTS bit, no fines no criminal records, no bounties... WHAT?

It's there but it's impossible to pay off.

Urrrgh!!!!

At best, the system is horribly confusing to a even to moderately intelligent chap with multiple Oxbridge degrees, an experienced gamer who's read up a lot and been careful.
Or worst it's very badly designed/flawed.
Or (I'M HOPING IT'S THIS) there's simply a bug somewhere. Perhaps the bug is people randomly going hostile, perhaps it's something to do with inability to pay off little fines, i just don't know what's going on.

Utterly, utterly, utterly confused.

I think I'll go off and try to work out easier things like the square root of minus one.

 

[GJ51]

This thread is pretty representative of one of the biggest problems with ED. How can you tell the difference between a game mechanic you don't understand and an actual bug? Last night I did some rank progression missions. I had the assassination mission to kill Gen Kahn for the feds. After toasting him, even though he fired first, I get labeled as wanted with a 6200cr fine. Fine, I'll just go to an outpost and pay it off. So much for that. I went through all the boards - no fine listed. But it shows me as wanted above the fuel gauge and in the right hand screens. OK - so I try the station that issued the mission. Nothing there. So I go to the system where I killed the general. Nothing there. So now what? I log off, then log back on and bingo! No fines listed and no more wanted. I haven't been on yet this morning, but it looks like it's cleared itself up.

Definitely seems that there's something amiss that the devs need to address.

EDIT: I think it's i

 

[Quddus]

I agree GJ

After some searching I think it seems there is currently a well reported bug since 1.07 with unpayable fines which disappear when you log out and in. I think maybe that's what may have happened with me but the game remembers it somehow and renders me hostile? Or maybe the hostility is a separate 1.07 bug. As you say it's so confusing it's hard to split mechanics and various intertwined bugs.

ANOTHER UPDATE: Just went around, yet again no cargo, no scan, not wanted etc etc and being fired at by Feds outside a station (which perfectly happily lets me dock btw!) and teh Feds tell me "you're wanted in this sector!" as they try to kill me. Well.. there's no wanted sign so what are they on about?

It's messed up.

My question is even if they figure out the bug will they reinstate my repuation with Fed, or will I just leave the game and assume a £40 loss (I doubt I'll get a refund although with any other faulty item you normally would get one?).

 

[andyraptor]

I agree GJ

After some searching I think it seems there is currently a well reported bug since 1.07 with unpayable fines which disappear when you log out and in. I think maybe that's what may have happened with me but the game remembers it somehow and renders me hostile? Or maybe the hostility is a separate 1.07 bug. As you say it's so confusing it's hard to split mechanics and various intertwined bugs.

ANOTHER UPDATE: Just went around, yet again no cargo, no scan, not wanted etc etc and being fired at by Feds outside a station (which perfectly happily lets me dock btw!) and teh Feds tell me "you're wanted in this sector!" as they try to kill me. Well.. there's no wanted sign so what are they on about?

It's messed up.

My question is even if they figure out the bug will they reinstate my repuation with Fed, or will I just leave the game and assume a £40 loss (I doubt I'll get a refund although with any other faulty item you normally would get one?).

Once and for all..... it's a bug GJ51 even gave you the fix ... <snip>


here

note the time stamps from the screen shots

Oh dear I shot a good guy (Fed) and I'm wanted .... fly to outpost in nearby system (Fed)



get into the outpost without a single scratch



go to pay fine but ......



Oh No !!!! ....what shall I do ?..... I know... log out and back in again.... that's what the nice guys are doing on the forum





hey presto fixed


OR

<snip>

It's a bug...in 1.07... the fix is here ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Quddus]

Mate that was a bit harsh. I won't rise to it. Stay friendly, it's what I'm like. Easier that way and I've got nothing against fellow Elite fans, we're all in it together, one of my fave games of all time.

Thank you, (appreciate the screenshots really helpful!), yes as I said I did search and eventually figured out that there is a 1.07 bug that means you can't pay fines. But that's an issue I posted late in this thread - do you reckon then that it's what explains the sudden hostility from Fed i.e. get that problem, not realise it, think you're clear but you're not and over time it erodes reputation....? If they are linked, then that doesn't seem to be the fix as the hostility remains sadly. Yes it's a 'fix' (or workaround until there's a fix ) as soon as you realise it's happened to you, but if it then goes on to ruin your reputation can that be fixed so easily? And if it's not the cause of that and that's actually another issue then my original question stands and how can that be fixed? Sadly this is far from resolved.

I'm not whimpling or whining, I love the developers and the game hence putting my time into trying to enjoy it and make it better for everyone even at the expense of looking daft. I reckon this game deserves to be one of the best games around for decades to come.

No hard feelings mate let's keep it friendly eh? And you're right there isn't an Oxbridge degree in "gaming common sense" so I take your point it's irrelevant! I was just trying to say "it ain't cos Ii iz fik, bruv". We're all friends here and if I'm just being thick, bear with me and help me out.

All the best and as ever thanks for trying to help out buddy - I need to learn/read how to do those screenshots then maybe I can be a bit more useful too!

 

[the100thmonkey]

You're still a very naughty boy.

Nevertheless, submit a ticket - your reputation seems to be glitched, and getting your issue fixed will help many others.

As for me, well... I wish I could get the feds to shoot at me. I accidentally ended up friendly with a Fed faction in my home system, and they keep trying to recruit me and give me nice things. I don't want your crappy Dropship, damn it! I want you to die, you corporate snake!

 

[Rardain]

Once and for all..... it's a bug GJ51 even gave you the fix ... <snip>

Totally uncalled for chap, if you can't be civil don't bother posting!!!


Quddus
Ok, as has been established the fine issue is documented and hopefully being worked on.

As to your other problem, being attacked for seemingly no reason, this all tied into your hostile status with the Feds...especially the security forces. They automatically see you as a valid target, regardless of whether you are hauling illegal goods, actually doing a mission for a Fed faction (including their own), or simply flying from A to B with an empty hold. Anytime a security ship that is red to you on your scanner is in your vicinity they will try to engage you. If they are already engaged attacking another wanted ship they will ignore you until they have taken it down (with or without your help) after that you are fair game. If you put up a fight then your in even deeper poo so the best option is to get the hell outta dodge before you get vaporised.

If you approach a Federation controlled station (any of the ones with internal docking) then all patrolling security forces in the vicinity will be alerted to your presence and will attack you as soon as they can. In this instance put full power to your shields and dock as soon as possible. Even though the station sees you as hostile they will still allow you to dock...they still don't like you but are willing to let you in. Just be aware that the patrolling security ships know your in there and will pounce as soon as you leave so it is pedal to the metal time to clear station space quickly on exiting.

One last hint for you...for any station other than ports that have the external docking, you can actually align yourself so the 'letterbox' opening is facing you before you revert to normal space. As you approach the station in FSD orient yourself so that the planet the station is orbiting is in the 6 o'clock position relative to the port. Keeping the port central in your HUD fly towards it till the distance gets to 0.010Ls then pitch down quickly till the station disappears from view. Now keep an eye on the blue dot in your positional radar and once it gets to the top of the radar pull back up so the station is central and revert to normal space when in range. If you do it right the entrance to t he station will be roughly pointing towards you making docking runs under pressure much easier. Check out Youtube for vids on doing this if your not sure...its s good trick and has helped me out no end.

Good luck mate.

Cy

 

[andyraptor]

Totally uncalled for chap, if you can't be civil don't bother posting!!!


Quddus
Ok, as has been established the fine issue is documented and hopefully being worked on.

As to your other problem, being attacked for seemingly no reason, this all tied into your hostile status with the Feds...especially the security forces. They automatically see you as a valid target, regardless of whether you are hauling illegal goods, actually doing a mission for a Fed faction (including their own), or simply flying from A to B with an empty hold. Anytime a security ship that is red to you on your scanner is in your vicinity they will try to engage you. If they are already engaged attacking another wanted ship they will ignore you until they have taken it down (with or without your help) after that you are fair game. If you put up a fight then your in even deeper poo so the best option is to get the hell outta dodge before you get vaporised.

If you approach a Federation controlled station (any of the ones with internal docking) then all patrolling security forces in the vicinity will be alerted to your presence and will attack you as soon as they can. In this instance put full power to your shields and dock as soon as possible. Even though the station sees you as hostile they will still allow you to dock...they still don't like you but are willing to let you in. Just be aware that the patrolling security ships know your in there and will pounce as soon as you leave so it is pedal to the metal time to clear station space quickly on exiting.

One last hint for you...for any station other than ports that have the external docking, you can actually align yourself so the 'letterbox' opening is facing you before you revert to normal space. As you approach the station in FSD orient yourself so that the planet the station is orbiting is in the 6 o'clock position relative to the port. Keeping the port central in your HUD fly towards it till the distance gets to 0.010Ls then pitch down quickly till the station disappears from view. Now keep an eye on the blue dot in your positional radar and once it gets to the top of the radar pull back up so the station is central and revert to normal space when in range. If you do it right the entrance to t he station will be roughly pointing towards you making docking runs under pressure much easier. Check out Youtube for vids on doing this if your not sure...its s good trick and has helped me out no end.

Good luck mate.

Cy

Over to you then Chap !!

You have the helm.... repeating everything that has already been told to this guy since 08:30 am yesterday.... but you know that

Good luck CMDR

 

[Rardain]

Over to you then Chap !!

You have the helm.... repeating everything that has already been told to this guy since 08:30 am yesterday.... but you know that

Good luck CMDR

Aww come on, this is the newcomers section of the forums...play nice Info for the benefit of all

 

[andyraptor]

Aww come on, this is the newcomers section of the forums...play nice Info for the benefit of all

All I can say is read post #350

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=106036&page=24&p=1663375&viewfull=1#post1663375

 

[Rardain]

I'm not sure if this is just coincidence or because of deliberate action, however, I have gone from Hostile to Unfriendly in a single mission. As I was hostile to the Federation I flew to Sol and carried out a mission for a random faction there...instant forgiveness from the capital of the Federation or mere coincidence because of the number of reparation missions I had already flown elsewhere? You DO require a permit to enter the Sol system, however, I had already earned this through missions for the Federal Navy.

Anyone else had a similar experience? What are the capital systems for the Alliance and Empire?

 

[LeetNoob]

It looks like you got really unlucky but I wouldn’t give up. Are you any good at combat? Go to an anarchy system with a Viper and a kill warrant scanner were you won’t be bothered, and just bounty hunt. Once you get a lot of bounty claims in fed space, turn them in. It will take you a while but I believe this is the fastest way to gain rep.

 

[Rardain]

It looks like you got really unlucky but I wouldn’t give up. Are you any good at combat? Go to an anarchy system with a Viper and a kill warrant scanner were you won’t be bothered, and just bounty hunt. Once you get a lot of bounty claims in fed space, turn them in. It will take you a while but I believe this is the fastest way to gain rep.

Noooo, you mis-read I think...going from Hostile to Unfriendly is a step in the right direction , what I am thinking is that if you have the permits to gain access to a factions core system, simply carrying out a mission for them will earn you enough positive rep to instantly get you off the Hostile list (unless of course you like being an outlaw in which case go for it )