[Suggestion] Consequences for Mission Wrinkle refusal

[Marc_Hicks]

At the moment, pretty much every mission wrinkle can currently be ignored/refused, which is fine as it stands-as it usually just means the player is doing themselves out of extra money.

However, for missions with a much higher base pay-out, I feel that there should not only be much more frequent wrinkles, but refusal to accept the wrinkles and/or failure to complete them should trigger some in-game consequence-most likely in another, less avoidable wrinkle.....or in the form of a related follow on.

An example of this might be a high paying courier mission, where you get a request to deliver the data to a new location (or meet with an in-space contact instead). Refusal to do this might trigger a new wrinkle-like "dont get scanned" (where getting scanned equals instant mission failure) or "ships sent against you".

Another example might be a hostage liberation mission or a planetary surface rescue mission. You receive a wrinkle asking you to get the hostage/escape pod occupant back in a shorter time frame-most likely due to life support malfunctions in their pod(s). Failure to meet the new deadline would trigger a guaranteed follow-on mission, asking you to return with Advanced Medicines, Medical Equipment or the like.....to help revive the pod occupant.

By having these kinds of consequences, I feel that it would help to give each mission more of its own individual narrative....even moreso than is already the case.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Good ideas. The way it is now, there isn't much point in reading the updates unless you need a location for assassination, salvage or smuggling missions.

If the timeframe has become shorter, I don't care as there usually isn't much I can do to be faster. If there is an NPC coming after me, they need to take a number to get in line with all the others.

Complex chained missions where your choices make a distinct difference to how they play out would be great.

 

[Nero Tacitus]

By "wrinkle" I'm assuming you mean when a mission has its parameters changed by the mission giver. Personally, I utterly loathe this aspect fo the game. I accept missions based on the info given, the fact that clients have the capacity to up and change the particulars of a missions is just ridiculous, and I actively disregard any request by NPCs to change my missions.
"We'd like you to deliver the cargo to a different system" - oh ok, cool. Not like I have 15 other missions going to this one system, I'll totally jump to an entirely different system just because you've changed your mind. It's even worse when you're trying to do assassination missions in the smaller ships. I had a vulture rebuy (and mission failure) because I took a mission that was rated for my combat rank, and as I made my way to the system, I was informed the target "knew I was coming" and had organised some body guards. Yeah, turns out my target was a vulture, that now had a double viper escort....in my unengineered vulture. Thanks FDev.

Sorry to rant, and kudos for an original idea. But I just really couldn't be anymore against a system that randomly screws you. Once a contract has been accepted, that should be it! If you want to accept new parameters for a larger reward, fine; but players should not be penalised for doing the mission they were paid to do.

 

[nanite2000]

I think wrinkles just need to be made more attractive to the player.

For example, a change in destination for a delivery mission is annoying. But what if that change doubled the amount of money you got paid for the mission? Or, what if it increased your reputation gain with the faction beyond the original mission offer?

Now the wrinkle looks like a genuine bonus, and I'd give serious thought before dismissing it. For players who are short on time, the wrinkle can be safely ignored. For players who are looking to make money or gain reputation, the wrinkle becomes an attractive option.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

By "wrinkle" I'm assuming you mean when a mission has its parameters changed by the mission giver. Personally, I utterly loathe this aspect fo the game. I accept missions based on the info given, the fact that clients have the capacity to up and change the particulars of a missions is just ridiculous, and I actively disregard any request by NPCs to change my missions.
"We'd like you to deliver the cargo to a different system" - oh ok, cool. Not like I have 15 other missions going to this one system, I'll totally jump to an entirely different system just because you've changed your mind. It's even worse when you're trying to do assassination missions in the smaller ships. I had a vulture rebuy (and mission failure) because I took a mission that was rated for my combat rank, and as I made my way to the system, I was informed the target "knew I was coming" and had organised some body guards. Yeah, turns out my target was a vulture, that now had a double viper escort....in my unengineered vulture. Thanks FDev.

Sorry to rant, and kudos for an original idea. But I just really couldn't be anymore against a system that randomly screws you. Once a contract has been accepted, that should be it! If you want to accept new parameters for a larger reward, fine; but players should not be penalised for doing the mission they were paid to do.

Well I personally like missions that lack a direct, linear progression. However, I did specify High Paid Missions. Basically there needs to be a fairly close relationship between how large the payout is, & how likely a mission wrinkle (or multiple wrinkles) is to occur. The inbox message is also essential for selling mission wrinkles. A case in point refers back to one of the actual examples I gave about. I'd rescued a hostage from a planetary PoI, then got a "reduced time" wrinkle. When I read the inbox message, it said that the life-support was failing on the pod containing the hostage, hence why I had to get the "cargo" turned in as fast as possible. That little message made the wrinkle seem more like a storytelling element rather than just a random thing (even though, logically, I knew it was just random). Adding in consequences for failing to achieve these wrinkles would just deepen the sense of it being a storytelling element. At least in my opinion.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

I think wrinkles just need to be made more attractive to the player.

For example, a change in destination for a delivery mission is annoying. But what if that change doubled the amount of money you got paid for the mission? Or, what if it increased your reputation gain with the faction beyond the original mission offer?

Now the wrinkle looks like a genuine bonus, and I'd give serious thought before dismissing it. For players who are short on time, the wrinkle can be safely ignored. For players who are looking to make money or gain reputation, the wrinkle becomes an attractive option.

I'm usually sorely tempted by mission wrinkle rewards. However, what tempts me even more is if the inbox message sells the wrinkle as good storytelling rather than just random chance (I accept that Proc. Gen mission systems will always have limitations, but there are ways to create a good Suspension of Disbelief).

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

I seldom do missions for the credits. I'm more interested in the reputation with the factions, the influence thy have on the BGS and the occasional material or data reward. So a wrinkle has to offer me something I want to make it worthwhile.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

This.already.exists....

I get wrinkles at e.v.e.r.y. mission!!! I've refused once a passenger to bring him 2t of some crap. Instead one minute later he has given me a massage that we get haunted by 6 (!!!) Elite Anacondas in a row.
Maybe he was angry that i didn't give him these 2 tons....

Since that, i ignore the wrinkles just. I don't accept but also don't refuse them since it WILL get worse if doing so.

 

[MBaldelli]

Another example might be a hostage liberation mission or a planetary surface rescue mission. You receive a wrinkle asking you to get the hostage/escape pod occupant back in a shorter time frame-most likely due to life support malfunctions in their pod(s). Failure to meet the new deadline would trigger a guaranteed follow-on mission, asking you to return with Advanced Medicines, Medical Equipment or the like.....to help revive the pod occupant.

By having these kinds of consequences, I feel that it would help to give each mission more of its own individual narrative....even moreso than is already the case.

I find the RNG for the wrinkles lack rhyme and reason based on the bonuses. I've seen wrinkles requiring the product to being delivered within 3 minutes of exiting supercruise at the station for a pittance price and reputation increase in the Bubble, and yet rushes between Sothis/Ceos having a better payout for much more time for delivery. I'm talking more than 15 minutes from entering the system in question.

Last night I saw a wrinkle show up about a change of delivery location hitting my Comm Panel seconds before exiting supercruise at the stations I was originally supposed to delivery the product to.

Perhaps instead of penalizing the player for refusing the wrinkle; a more structured payout for those wrinkles might be required before deciding to handslap the pilot/player into taking/refusing the changes.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

I find the RNG for the wrinkles lack rhyme and reason based on the bonuses. I've seen wrinkles requiring the product to being delivered within 3 minutes of exiting supercruise at the station for a pittance price and reputation increase in the Bubble, and yet rushes between Sothis/Ceos having a better payout for much more time for delivery. I'm talking more than 15 minutes from entering the system in question.

Last night I saw a wrinkle show up about a change of delivery location hitting my Comm Panel seconds before exiting supercruise at the stations I was originally supposed to delivery the product to.

Perhaps instead of penalizing the player for refusing the wrinkle; a more structured payout for those wrinkles might be required before deciding to handslap the pilot/player into taking/refusing the changes.

I have said elsewhere though that mission wrinkles currently tend to trigger in all too predictable fashion (usually when you jump into a system, or exit/enter supercruise.) I would much rather see them trigger at pretty much any time, & the accompanying text really needs to sell the *why* of the wrinkle.....to give it that Rhyme and Reason (as I alluded to in the hostage wrinkle). As an example of the changed destination wrinkle, maybe you'll get a text saying "our enemies are aware of your mission, & so it has become too dangerous to bring the data here. Go to <system name> & meet with <contact name>, they will tell you where to go from there".

If you refuse or ignore the wrinkle, then a new wrinkle pops up saying "well, if you still insist on bringing the data here, then be aware that two pilots from <faction name> are on the prowl, looking to stop you."

See how these wrinkles now start to tell a mini story-especially if your actions on this mission sparks a follow-on of some kind. These missions stop feeling like mere random jobs & feel more like a proper narrative.

Just to reiterate, this isn't about PENALIZING players......this is merely creating consequences for pilot actions (or inactions) that could help with roleplaying

One last thing that could be triggered by refusing/failing a mission wrinkle could be an alternate job offer from a rival faction.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

I seldom do missions for the credits. I'm more interested in the reputation with the factions, the influence thy have on the BGS and the occasional material or data reward. So a wrinkle has to offer me something I want to make it worthwhile.

I am, first and foremost, a roleplayer.....so the greatest drawcard a mission could have for me is if its various components created the illusion of telling a story.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Just for the record, this suggestion is just one of many suggestions I have made in regards to making missions-particularly high end ones-give a greater sense of immersion & narrative cohesion, as much as is possible within the confines of a Procedural Generated Mission System.

More in depth mission text via the inbox; more frequent mission wrinkles, with in depth inbox text to make sense of it, consequences for failing wrinkles & missions (again, with good inbox text to help explain it) & more frequent mission follow-ons.

 

[vampireuk]

I disagree with the idea of consequences for not accepting the new destination when hauling cargo. They contracted me to haul the cargo from A to B. If they want the cargo moving to a new destination they can hire another guy to do that. My contract with them was clear.

 

[MBaldelli]

Just to reiterate, this isn't about PENALIZING players......this is merely creating consequences for pilot actions (or inactions) that could help with roleplaying

I've had time to think about this. While it's good to have story-driven missions -- I'm finding logistical problems with this given what I've seen of the stories generated for the Formidine Rift, Generation Ships, and the Galactic Reports/Power Plays/CGs. If anything, I'm struck with the distinct impression that while they are good at coding they lack the expertise for writing. Further, their front/face man is PR through and through and has been sold on the behind-the-scenes going on.

Don't get me wrong; as a hobby writer I'm more than happy creating a backstory for my character and picking up the slack where the ball was clearly dropped from what I've seen of the above... But truth be told, I often find the innate nitpicker that has matured from decades of poor Star Trek stories and inconsistent technology having a field day from what I'm seeing in the game. So much so, I had a good friend of mine tell me to "enjoy the game, don't try to make it so like real life..."

Couple this with the often publicized "glacial updating" that this game goes through, perhaps this might be considered more ambitious than anticipated.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

I've had time to think about this. While it's good to have story-driven missions -- I'm finding logistical problems with this given what I've seen of the stories generated for the Formidine Rift, Generation Ships, and the Galactic Reports/Power Plays/CGs. If anything, I'm struck with the distinct impression that while they are good at coding they lack the expertise for writing. Further, their front/face man is PR through and through and has been sold on the behind-the-scenes going on.

Don't get me wrong; as a hobby writer I'm more than happy creating a backstory for my character and picking up the slack where the ball was clearly dropped from what I've seen of the above... But truth be told, I often find the innate nitpicker that has matured from decades of poor Star Trek stories and inconsistent technology having a field day from what I'm seeing in the game. So much so, I had a good friend of mine tell me to "enjoy the game, don't try to make it so like real life..."

Couple this with the often publicized "glacial updating" that this game goes through, perhaps this might be considered more ambitious than anticipated.

That's funny, I thought the writing for the Formadine Rift & Mega Ships was *brilliant*. I have also seen some very engaging text for follow on missions, wrinkles & alternative contracts. I just want to see them expand on that.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

I disagree with the idea of consequences for not accepting the new destination when hauling cargo. They contracted me to haul the cargo from A to B. If they want the cargo moving to a new destination they can hire another guy to do that. My contract with them was clear.

If you're being paid millions of credits to haul seemingly innocuous cargo, then there is probably a reason why it's so "valuable", hence why the destination might change. What is wrong with having a consequence for ignoring the request to take it elsewhere? Unless you just like to grind missions.

 

[Chrystoph]

What I object to in this scenario is the total lack of consequences for the FACTION. My comments are not a reflection on the proposal.

The utter whooey of a contract that is dishonored EVERY time it is taken would make these people untrusted to the point that they would HAVE to pay extra just to get pilots. Instead, they are "business as usual" and competitive pricing.

"Hey, we're going to offer you a contract for X, but EVERYONE knows the contract isn't worth the storage it is kept on because we'll totally rewrite it as soon as you jump out of the system."

Yet, there is nothing negative that happens to the faction...

 

[MBaldelli]

That's funny, I thought the writing for the Formadine Rift & Mega Ships was *brilliant*. I have also seen some very engaging text for follow on missions, wrinkles & alternative contracts. I just want to see them expand on that.

As the acronym goes: YMMV. I have a Military and Hard Sci-Fi background (heavily in most sciences including physics and relativity) dating back to the 70s.

I've been present during their livestreams over the holidays where they were too engaged talking about their colourful jumpers (sweaters for Americans) instead of answering questions about the game, complete with how the developers' eyes glazed over with high school level physics questions.

I've even witnessed how a livestream was stopped to talk about a cookie recipe instead of the game.

I do understand human nature and cut them slack for the need for human diversions... Even with that slack given, the evidence from my the perspective is extremely telling.

I like the ambition of this suggestion. It would be good not to have it going on all in my head. I just don't think they're ready for it yet.

 

[vampireuk]

If you're being paid millions of credits to haul seemingly innocuous cargo, then there is probably a reason why it's so "valuable", hence why the destination might change. What is wrong with having a consequence for ignoring the request to take it elsewhere? Unless you just like to grind missions.

That is not how contracts work. You hire me to take a cargo from A to B. There is no mention of rerouting the cargo so I will take the cargo from A to B. If you want the cargo taken to C instead of B then by all means offer me the contract but I am free to turn it down and fulfill my original contract. How the cargo then gets to C is not my concern.

 

[DocLooshkin]

Hello, Mr Hicks.

+1. I like the wrinkles, but would definitely prefer to see more in the way of sensible reasons for them to happen, rather than having them just occur at random, as usually seems to be the case. Perhaps tying them to source- or destination-faction states would be helpful. More interesting - or better-expressed - consequences for accepting or ignoring them sounds like a very fine idea.

I'd also like to see more statistical variety in wrinkle generation - at the moment, I'm only seeing either wrinkle-free or 'deliver sooner' messages. I don't think I've seen a redirect in ages and have had only a few hostile interceptions. Perhaps I'm taking the wrong sort of missions...