Suggestion: Improve Mining - Most importantly with stateful resource hot spots

NeilF

NeilF
We know as part of next year's "Beyond," mining is getting some love. Over a year ago I posted some suggestions around two matters, 1) Procedural distribution maps, 2) Stateful resource hot spots.

The second of these I'd see as really offering an important means of moving mining and exploration (even trading?) forwards in a positive direction. As my posts from all that time ago are now locked, I'm now reposting these thoughts, now with "Beyond" (& multi-crew) in mind...


Procedural Distribution Maps
An easy way to add some more immersion and depth to the materials/resources found on planet surfaces and planetary rings, would seem to be to distribute the materials such that different areas have different "strengths" of different materials - ie: The dice throws for finding a material would be nudged up/down accordingly.

As such I'd envisage you could scan a planet or ring, and for the game to then show a distribution map of the materials that fluctuate across the surface or ring. The player could then go to the area that then best skews the dice in favour of what they're after. eg: Want arsenic and iron, then go to the single region richest in both of them, or instead go to the richest arsenic area and then the richest iron area.

Note: This type of approach has been suggested numerous time, by numerous people, in numerous guises...

The distribution would hopefully be procedurally generated, and where possible take "features" into consideration too. eg: Base the distribution of materials on a planet's surface also by height, impact craters, ravines etc etc...

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...And In Asteroids
And why not even follow this process down to individual asteroids? Allow tools to scan individual asteroids and show a distribution map of the resources within it. Thus mining a specific area of an asteroid higher in "palladium" will skew the dice (slightly) in favour in finding palladium.
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** Stateful Resource Hot Spots **
Now onto what I see as the significant feature. This suggestion seems a means of not only offering more meaning, depth and purpose to exploration, but also a means of offering a myriad of other positive aspects to the game. And a feature that in truth shouldn't be hard to implement IMHO?

When scanning planetary surfaces and planetary rings, rare "Hot Spots" can be found. These are small stateful locations (think a stateful perminent POI) of very rich source of a specific material. Any CMDR traveling to that area will see the "Hot Spot". eg: A Hot Spot of arsenic on a planet. Or a Hot Spot of Palladium in a ring. Consider them a big localised spike in the procedural distribution map.

These are very small areas, which when you mine in them, will heavily skew the dice in favour of finding that material. And most importantly as they are mined and the material/resource in question found, the Hot Spot reduces down, from an initial 100%, down finally to 0% at which time it's gone forever.

eg: You could find a Hot Spot of gold in a ring, at 40%. You therefore know other CMDRs have already discovered it, and indeed allready been mining it. They could have mined it months ago. They might even be mining it right now!

What do "Hot Spots" bring to the game?:-
  • You find a Hot Spot of Palladium. Do you mine it immediately yourself? Bookmark it to do in the future and hope no other CMDR find it in the meantime? Or give the location the Mining Rats maybe in return for some commission?
  • Consider if FD periodically spawned some resource Hot Spots in a region, in effect to generate a gold rush?
  • Consider if FD periodically spawned some resource Hot Spots in a region as part of a CG?
  • Consider if FD periodically spawned some resource Hot Spots in a region as part of a CG in OPEN only?

What impoteous is there at the moment to go and explore and find resources? Why go and mine anywhere other than the nearest never ending ring rich in what you're looking for? Stateful Hot Spots would add some more realistic mechanics into the game and rewards exploration and mining (gameplay wise and CR wise)...

Multi-Crew Considerations
Consider if distribution maps were applied to individual asteroids.
  • Now the gunner at least has specific targets (rich areas of elements) to look out for and aim at. At least that's a touch more challenging that hitting an entire rock?
  • Consider an SLF, if it had a mining laser? It is now useful in that it can more easily get to the specific rich patches on asteroids. eg: consider a desirable area on a far side, or on a rotating asteroid, where a SLF could far more easily manoeuvre around an asteroid to specifically target the areas of richer elements.
Beyond - Squadrons
Allow a Fleet Carrier to be called to a resource hot spot in effect to make a "claim" on it, such that no one else can mine there?

Allow the materials being mined to be stored on the Fleet Carrier so mining ships can store the mined resources, and then dedicated transport ships can collect them and take them to a station to sell.

Allow NPCs and even other CMDRs to dock at the Fleet Carrier, purchase the mined resources (eg: gold) and fly to a station to sell (for a profit).


Historical Posts
Here's my original proposal - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=258294&page=8&p=4007154&viewfull=1#post4007154
More thoughts on it - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...and-quantity?p=4149754&viewfull=1#post4149754


Some more technical musings...
When a Stateful Resource Hot Spot is found:-
  • You're told what material it is - Obviously this will vary depending if it's in a ring or on a planet's surface.
    • I'd imagine within rings these would be reserved just for more valuable materials?
    • And on planet surfaces reserved just for rarer materials?
  • An indication of quantity - I'd envisage this would be at its most basic a percentage (left). ie: A 100% area hasn't been mined at all. But one at 5% is nearly exhausted.
  • Actual quantity - The actual quantity (originally) could be a specific measure in tons for rings, or fragments (KG?) for surfaces? I'd imagine this would be a random generation with a logical set of brackets. For example for a ring, 500-10,000 tons? For surfaces 25-200 fragments (KG?)

Question: Is offering these on planetary surfaces even worth while? Maybe not! At least until mining on surface also includes valuable ores?

So, three examples... You're flying around in new systems and scanning, and you find:-

A ring with a hot spot
It's a hot spot of Painite, measuring 100% of 800t.

Being at 100% no one has mined it at all, and there's still all the 800t left!

A surface hot spot
It's a hot spot of Tellurium, measuring 100% of 40KG (40 fragments?).

Being at 100% no one has mined it at all.

A ring with a hot spot
It's a hot spot of Gold, measuring 70% of 5000t.

Being at 70% of 5000t, clearly someone has shifted 1500t already, but there's still 3500t left! It could have been mined months ago, or there could be people there right now...
 
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Limoncello Lizard

Limoncello Lizard
All good ideas, particularly the hotspots. These could also be used for CGs. I'd like there to be some minerals that weren't in every ring in the galaxy. Hotspots could also be mission specific. Plus they could be used for other resources, such as vacuum krill.
 

NeilF

NeilF
Limoncello Lizard said:
All good ideas, particularly the hotspots. These could also be used for CGs. I'd like there to be some minerals that weren't in every ring in the galaxy. Hotspots could also be mission specific. Plus they could be used for other resources, such as vacuum krill.
Click to expand...
Indeed, there's a number of ways these "hot spots" could be used... But the most important thing IMHO is they be stateful. ie: As they are mined, the reduce, until gone... This alone gives them significant importance/depth, instead of just a never ending rich ring resource, or some roll of the dice temporary mini-game rich find.
 

Mengy

Mengy
Surface heatmaps are a feature that Elite really needs. Not just to improve mining, but surface heatmaps can be utilized to greatly enhance exploration in general as well, and even mission play in the bubble. It's an obvious next step with huge positives for the game and I hope we get them in 2018.
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
Well, we have those already in rings. They are called Resource Extraction Zones. I still like the planetary heatmaps, hope something like that eventually arrives. :)
 

Limoncello Lizard

Limoncello Lizard
sleutelbos said:
Well, we have those already in rings. They are called Resource Extraction Zones. I still like the planetary heatmaps, hope something like that eventually arrives. :)
Click to expand...
True. But RES buff fragments, not specific minerals or materials. Nor do they add any skill to the drilling process, which is what I see as the main benefit of droid heatmaps.
 

Schmack

Schmack
Like the rest of the game, if FDev wants to get more players into mining, they need to make it not only worthwhile from a Cr/min standpoint but also make it interesting. When I mine, I don't want to be bothered by pirates, so I will go out away from res sites. It doesn't matter though, that magical pirate drops in out of nowhere and you have to defend yourself more than if you were hauling pure painite.

I'd like to be able, sometimes, to find a motherload of high value material instead of the percentages we see now.
 

Mano d'Oro

Mano d'Oro
Lots of good ideas here across the board. OP you said you posted these suggestions over a year ago? Here's hoping FDEVS took notice and will include some (if not all!) of these in the Beyond updates. Sadly, can only +Rep you once!
 

Toumal

Toumal
Great idea and this could be extended to planet POIs, allowing us to scan for specific types and then visit them without the current blue circle mechanic. Because really, the blue circle makes little sense, both in-universe and as a game mechanic.

P.S: this would make for a great multicrew station.
 
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Mano d'Oro

Mano d'Oro
Toumal said:
Great idea and this could be extended to planet POIs, allowing us to scan for specific types and then visit them without the current blue circle mechanic. Because really, the blue circle makes little sense, both in-universe and as a game mechanic.

P.S: this would make for a great multicrew station.
Click to expand...

Another good idea, give that 2nd Multicrew CMDR currently sitting idle a Science Officer/Scanning role. +Repped also! This thread is full of win lol!
 

Mengy

Mengy
the100thmonkey said:
It's my understanding that your suggestions are already how the distributions work, bar a scanner telling you where they hotspots are.
Click to expand...

I actually don't think the game currently has mat distributions on planet surfaces. I believe the material nodes are simply randomly generated at the surface on a per instance basis as the player travels across the planet, in a set radius around the player. In order for surface heatmaps to have any use in material hunting, the nature by which materials spawn on planets would need to change as well.

Now, with regards to things like geysers/fumeroles, those are not instance generated but procedurally placed fixed locations, so they could be located in surface heatmap search zones. And regarding any new surface mining mechanic for ores and such, if the ore generation was implemented to be procedurally located by the stellar forge seed, in other words not instance specific but galaxy fixed in various distributions across the planet surfaces, then they could be identified by heatmap search zones too.
 

NeilF

NeilF
sleutelbos said:
Well, we have those already in rings. They are called Resource Extraction Zones. I still like the planetary heatmaps, hope something like that eventually arrives. :)
Click to expand...

Yes... we have thousand of rez all the same and with never ending supplies of resources all of which just contribute towards stagnant exploration and mining mechanics.

Allow CMDRs to find truly rich stateful resource hot spots and a myriad of mechanics open which offer to reward exploration, mining and even trading.

The most important aspect is the fact these hot spots can be mined down to nothing...
 

NeilF

NeilF
Mengy said:
I actually don't think the game currently has mat distributions on planet surfaces. I believe the material nodes are simply randomly generated at the surface on a per instance basis as the player travels across the planet, in a set radius around the player. In order for surface heatmaps to have any use in material hunting, the nature by which materials spawn on planets would need to change as well.

Now, with regards to things like geysers/fumeroles, those are not instance generated but procedurally placed fixed locations, so they could be located in surface heatmap search zones. And regarding any new surface mining mechanic for ores and such, if the ore generation was implemented to be procedurally located by the stellar forge seed, in other words not instance specific but galaxy fixed in various distributions across the planet surfaces, then they could be identified by heatmap search zones too.
Click to expand...

Indeed, if these "heat maps" are generated in a procedural way, and with nods to surface features where it makes sense, we'd end up with a mechanic that, 1) appears to be a step towards realism, and 2) gives some variety/depth in gameplay.

Finally - appologies for going over this again - but if these heat maps can also offer the (rare) chance of finding a true rich small hot spot, which is stateful (such that as it's there forever, until it's mined and depleted until nothing/gone) we suddenly get some depth and worth in exploration and mining.
 

NeilF

NeilF
Limoncello Lizard said:
So, given the size of rings, is it tiny amounts like a few billion tons?
Click to expand...

I think we'd need to be realistic about this... (Remember we're talking a small rich seam of something - A single local rich area)

When a Stateful Resource Hot Spot is found:-
  • You're told what material it is - Obviously this will vary depending if it's in a ring or on a planet's surface.
    • I'd imagine within rings these would be reserved just for more valuable materials?
    • And on planet surfaces reserved just for rarer materials?
  • An indication of quantity - I'd envisage this would be at its most basic a percentage (left). ie: A 100% area hasn't been mined at all. But one at 5% is nearly exhausted.
  • Actual quantity - The actual quantity (originally) could be a specific measure in tons for rings, or fragments (KG?) for surfaces? I'd imagine this would be a random generation with a logical set of brackets. For example for a ring, 500-10,000 tons? For surfaces 25-200 fragments (KG?)

Question: Is offering these on planetary surfaces even worth while? Maybe not! At least until mining on surface also includes valuable ores?


So, three examples... You're flying around in new systems and scanning, and you find:-

A ring with a hot spot
It's a hot spot of Painite, measuring 100% of 800t.

Being at 100% no one has mined it at all, and there's still all the 800t left!

A surface hot spot
It's a hot spot of Tellurium, measuring 100% of 40KG (40 fragments?).

Being at 100% no one has mined it at all.

A ring with a hot spot
It's a hot spot of Gold, measuring 70% of 5000t.

Being at 70% of 5000t, clearly someone has shifted 1500t already, but there's still 3500t left! It could have been mined months ago, or there could be people there right now...


I'd bring up some of the other suggestions here (from the OP) as a what could be? eg: With that final hot spot the CMDR who's found it is part of a squadron and they call in their Fleet Carrier which not only offers defense, but also makes a claim preventing any other CMDRs from mining there. They also decide to mine it themselves, store the Gold on the Fleet Carrier and instead of flying it back to stations themselves, instead allow it to be sold from there. Other CMDRs are made aware of the Gold for sale, it's location and price (within a UI menu) and can turn up, dock with the fleet carrier, buy the gold (*Note1) and fly back to a station to sell it. I'd suggest NPCs would also turn up to buy the Gold periodically too.

As such the Squadron could all be logged off, and CMDRs (in OPEN) could still be docking with their Fleet Carrier to buy/transport the Gold.

Obviously the Squadron could choose simply to store the Gold at the Fleet Carrier and handle all the transport themselves (*Note2).


*Note1 - Obviously the price to sell it locally at the Fleet Carrier needs some consideration. ie: How automated/easy it should be to set the price. I'd envisage a single slider automatically adjusting the price from low to high, based with automatic lower/upper ranges based on standard galactic price and distance to the nearest station(s). So as a rule you could always just leave it in the middle setting knowing it would give you a reasonable/fair profit for the miners and the traders...

*Note2 - Can the fleet carrier be moved with any Gold still onboard? I'd suggest not as it risks breaking too many existing game mechanics. eg: Just being used as the mother of all trading ships... Alternatively, have limited cargo space on board and a limit to how often it can be jumped?
 
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zaikoji

zaikoji
Great ideas for increasing interest in this neglected area. And there would almost certainly be a cascade effect with implications going well beyond mining alone. The hotspot system could spawn all kinds of immersive, emergent gameplay, create a host of interesting scenarios and more meaningful player on player interactions.
Good stuff.
 

DukeIronHand

D
I have no real issues with asteroid mining in its current form - not to say there is nothing to be improved on - but it's pretty workable and even enjoyable.

I would much rather see the, apparently precious, Dev time be spent in a total rework of surface mining. If anything in this game screams "valid and logical gameplay tweaks needed" it is here.
 

Deleted member 38366

D
I wouldn't mind the following :

So far, we only have small/medium Asteroids in the Resource Belts (which noone uses due to having way too few Asteroids) and Rings, which we have to manually fire Lasers onto from <500m Range.

- add Planetary Prospecting and Mining, small-scale upto Large-scale operations
-> reason to go down there for commercial purposes

- add a few large and huge Asteroids (more fragments) into Asteroid Rings

- add Deep-Space "gold mines" containing Alpha Rare Elements or high quantity of Painite/Low Temp Diamonds etc.
-> gives a reason for Deep Space Prospecting

- drastically increase amount of Asteroids in Resource Belt Clusters (there used to be 80+ km large Clusters)
-> gives them a purpose, as noone enters these to mine those all the same ~5-7 Asteroids

- add various different means of and approaches to Mining (appears they already have such an idea), as manually firing Mining lasers from <500m onto an Asteroid doesn't need to be the only way to do it (IMHO equals small-scale Mining)
-> includes small changes such as Engineering Mining Lasers (Efficient, LongRange, Overcharged)
-> but also add more Mining tools, i.e. Utility "Prospecting Scanner" for Minerals ("honk" or auto-scan, Class 0E-0A w/ 2-4km Range, i.e. to scan for Player-Set ores "Scan Target has Platinum YES/NO?")
-> how about Mining Burst Lasers?
-> how about planting Explosives onto Asteroids to mine?

- add Laser Range Finder to Prospector Controller (is distant Asteroid visually on my nose still within Prospector Range?)

- add rare Gemstones (remember those could be purchases/sold in amounts of Grams in the original ELITE)

- permit construction of basic space-borne or Planet-side Forward Operating Bases to support large-scale Mining Operations (i.e. after you discovered a sweet spot after a long search and want to exploit it, making it a longer-term operation)
(NPCs/Factions already have that, although those are fully developed and full-scale Asteroid Bases/Stations or Planetary Mining Installations upto huge constructions as seen at some Engineer locations; Players likely wouldn't need that huge size)

- Smart Refinery/Collectors
-> no more Collectors suiciding
-> no more unwanted ores or Elements being Scooped up
 
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