Suggestion: Let's Keep Supercruise the Way it is.

I haven't been playing to long- just since the game was released in December. Since joining the forums, one thing is clear.

There are too many whiny, impatient players that just don't understand why supercruise is implemented the way it is. Namely, decision making and feel.

- Trading would be way to easy and short. No one would do anything else to make $$. Also, you wouldn't feel like a space-trucker, which in my opinion is a bad thing. Supercruise is relaxing. Maybe in the future we can will be able to enjoy and walk around to other internal parts of our ship while in supercruise. It's down time. Enjoy it. I am able to sorta watch TV with my wife, which is great.

- Exploring wouldn't feel like you are exploring at all. Curious what is out there 500k+ LS away? well you're just going to have to wait it out. You have a decision you have to make if you want to go there.

- Interdiction would probably be broken if supercruise got sped up.


So, in support of supercruise, my suggestion is: keep it the way it is. Cheers FD. :)

Reply if you agree. Or if you don't.
 
There are also too many whiny people who don't accept arguments that don't support their opinion or don't differentiate the varying degrees 'what people mean by supercruise is too slow'. This is not specifically about the OP, the post is quite tame and I will try to bring some perspective into this discussion.

There are some people who just want to fly faster in supercruise because they want to get to their destination faster.

There are some people that are ok with the supercruise speed as it is, but can't follow the logic of seemingly arbitrary different acceleration/deceleration speeds in supercruise (this is what bugs me the most in supercruise - why can I stop instantly out in space but have to make a convoluted approach as soon as I target a USS - there's no mass out there that might affect my FSD).

There are some people who really only have a problem with acceleration/deceleration rates, having to find a magical sweet-spot

There are some who question the decision that you really can't control the actual speed in supercruise but only the 'throttle', so the timed countdown to the target is absolutely useless as there is no point during your flight that the time to destination is your actual time to destination (depending on your speed the final approach will have you seconds or minutes staying at 0:06 seconds to target).

The issue of multiple stars per system is also often mashed into this discussion, so some people think 'all is good with SC, except maybe let me jump from star to star inside a system'.

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The problem as I see it is that as soon as this discussion about SC starts, many people tend to mix all the different issues other people have with SC and turn it into a black/white discussion (as seen a little in the OP).

There is always a reflex reaction to just say "everything is ok, don't change anything" instead of a discussion of the merits of the individual arguments.

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As for SC and exploration; when you find a system with many objects and begin exploring, what takes the most amount of time:

1) flying from body to body
2) staying within scanner range and wait for the scanner to finish
3) accelerating away from a body / decelerating when approaching a body
4) staring at the wonders of space

From my personal experience, in the beginning it is 4), when everything is new and exciting and every discovery is an accomplishment. But later in the game, you really just select your target and wait for your ship to slow down again when reaching the target, only to slowly speed up again when flying to the next unknown object. (It doesn't help with exploring either that you can't plot an optimal route within a system as you don't know the position of the objects in relation to each other - an orrery view would make this a lot more efficient, but that is another topic altogether)

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On the topic of interdictions, speeding up SC would not really make that much of a difference, as with the current SC mechanics you can never 'catch up' to another player in SC while he is in open space (he accelerates faster than you when flying away from a mass), so the only 2 stages during cruise that make for a good time for interdiction is when approaching a target or when leaving the star. These situations IMHO don't really depend on SC speed that much so it could make a big difference.

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The one statement I rally cant understand is this:

"There are too many whiny, impatient players that just don't understand why supercruise is implemented the way it is. Namely, decision making and feel. "

Do you presume to know why supercruise is the way it is, as "feel" is something very subjective and I really don't know what you mean by "decision making".
 
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I haven't been playing to long- just since the game was released in December. Since joining the forums, one thing is clear.

There are too many whiny, impatient players that just don't understand why supercruise is implemented the way it is. Namely, decision making and feel.

- Trading would be way to easy and short. No one would do anything else to make $$. Also, you wouldn't feel like a space-trucker, which in my opinion is a bad thing. Supercruise is relaxing. Maybe in the future we can will be able to enjoy and walk around to other internal parts of our ship while in supercruise. It's down time. Enjoy it. I am able to sorta watch TV with my wife, which is great.

- Exploring wouldn't feel like you are exploring at all. Curious what is out there 500k+ LS away? well you're just going to have to wait it out. You have a decision you have to make if you want to go there.

- Interdiction would probably be broken if supercruise got sped up.


So, in support of supercruise, my suggestion is: keep it the way it is. Cheers FD. :)

Reply if you agree. Or if you don't.

"You cannot give Reputation to the same post twice."

I completely agree and am in total support.
 
There are some people who just want to fly faster in supercruise because they want to get to their destination faster.

I think this kind of goes without saying. Though this game takes place in the future, isn't it possible there are, and should still be, physical limits to the things you can do?

There are some people that are ok with the supercruise speed as it is, but can't follow the logic of seemingly arbitrary different acceleration/deceleration speeds in supercruise (this is what bugs me the most in supercruise - why can I stop instantly out in space but have to make a convoluted approach as soon as I target a USS - there's no mass out there that might affect my FSD).

I can get behind the instant slow-down to a USS due to the lack of mass.

There are some people who really only have a problem with acceleration/deceleration rates, having to find a magical sweet-spot

It's rough, but I think having it this way still makes sense. Somehow the mass of the astronomical body must be accounted for on approach and departure.

There are some who question the decision that you really can't control the actual speed in supercruise but only the 'throttle', so the timed countdown to the target is absolutely useless as there is no point during your flight that the time to destination is your actual time to destination (depending on your speed the final approach will have you seconds or minutes staying at 0:06 seconds to target).

Time is relative to your speed, because it is affected when traveling near the speed of light.. but you're right, I never pay attention to the time display, just distance. Not sure why this matters to you or others.

The issue of multiple stars per system is also often mashed into this discussion, so some people think 'all is good with SC, except maybe let me jump from star to star inside a system'.

Though far in supercruise, the stars are probably still too close to use hyperspace.

The problem as I see it is that as soon as this discussion about SC starts, many people tend to mix all the different issues other people have with SC and turn it into a black/white discussion (as seen a little in the OP).

...but it is a black and white discussion. either you are okay with the limits of supercruise or you aren't.

There is always a reflex reaction to just say "everything is ok, don't change anything" instead of a discussion of the merits of the individual arguments.

I certainly haven't seen much "everything is ok, don't change anything" about supercruise on these forums. I invited discussion at the end of my OP..

As for SC and exploration; when you find a system with many objects and begin exploring, what takes the most amount of time:

1) flying from body to body
2) staying within scanner range and wait for the scanner to finish
3) accelerating away from a body / decelerating when approaching a body
4) staring at the wonders of space

From my personal experience, in the beginning it is 4), when everything is new and exciting and every discovery is an accomplishment. But later in the game, you really just select your target and wait for your ship to slow down again when reaching the target, only to slowly speed up again when flying to the next unknown object. (It doesn't help with exploring either that you can't plot an optimal route within a system as you don't know the position of the objects in relation to each other - an orrery view would make this a lot more efficient, but that is another topic altogether)

I would like to be able to plot the most economical route as well.. locking on to the nearest body usually doesn't end with "quickest way to visit all bodies"

On the topic of interdictions, speeding up SC would not really make that much of a difference, as with the current SC mechanics you can never 'catch up' to another player in SC while he is in open space (he accelerates faster than you when flying away from a mass), so the only 2 stages during cruise that make for a good time for interdiction is when approaching a target or when leaving the star. These situations IMHO don't really depend on SC speed that much so it could make a big difference.

I'm actually interdicting more when the target is facing me, passes, then I swing in behind. Regardless, there are all angles and I do think it would have an affect on the ability to interdict when they are travelling so fast that you have no time to make it work.

Do you presume to know why supercruise is the way it is, as "feel" is something very subjective and I really don't know what you mean by "decision making".

Yes. I am the all-knowing LORD OF SUPERCRUISE. ..No, I just realize that this is a SIM, and that the developers are looking for a certain style and "feel" of a sim, which usually includes tedious things that you just have to deal with because it is LIFE. Life in 3301. As for decision making, what I mean is this: If I could instantly travel 500k+ LS away, that removes the decision of "man.. I'd like to go out there, but it's so freakin far. Ah the hell with it. Maybe this (explorer/trader/supercruiser) life isn't for me. TO THE NAV BEACON!" There are other exmples, all you have to do is think of a situation where you want to do something but that may mean dealing with the wait. I think FD did a good job of designing aspects of the game so that supercruise doesn't have to always be something to deal with, like in Piracy and Bounty hunting. Supercruise is still there, but not as much as "something in the way" for traders and explorers.

Bottom line is, supercruise itself is a style and feel of playing this game. There are many who actually enjoy it, many who don't, and I just don't hear enough from people who realize why it was designed the way it was. Sure there is always room for improvement and I still want to hear from both sides. Some good points, and thanks for the discussion.
 
I'm inclined to agre with Mitah above - i like the general principle of SC - as an alternative to a binary choice between 500 m/s top speed vs hyperspace, with no middle ground. Being able to swoop around systems was one of the greatest play elements in previous games.

But the solution implemented in ED is slower to travel - especially for longer distances. It's also a seperate game, a netherworld, badly integrated with 'normal' space (ie. ships and stations disappear but planets and stars don't). It's inconsistent with itself - self consistency is vital for suspension of disbelief. This also assists pilots get the knack with it, ie. building skill. At the moment it's a bit of a dice roll, as Mitah explained. And that's before we even get to the random USS spawning - but let's keep that as a separate issue.

Final gripe with it is the lack of autopilot - which would make the increased journey times more tolerable. What many players resent is being deprived of anything to play with - staring at a mostly static screen with unintelligible numbers displaying misleading information.

I don't think there's many, if any people who want to see it removed entirely. But it clearly needs refining.. there's plenty of room for improvement.
 
SC is fine as it is. The fact that it is manual makes it better. No changes to SC are needed.

I agree with the OP.
 
So, in support of supercruise, my suggestion is: keep it the way it is. Cheers FD. :)

I agree with this for the same reasons you stated. Keep the basic functionality of SC as it is, please!

People just seem to either be unaware of or simply want to ignore the fact that we are still not looking at the full implementation of what DB and the team intend to do with the whole game. This of course is also FD's fault as they haven't been exactly pushing information to the public about what their plans are regarding the various gameplay elements in the universe, and the universe itself. Anyway, the ED community is no different from others in that it has a small, loud minority of individuals who somehow perceive the game project as their own and keep complaining about everything on a daily basis...I just hope FD will not start listening to them too hard.
 
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But we've paid for it!

We're the customer, so who's right?

You don't annoy the customer. Right now all i want to do is unistall this thing, or smash something.

Just wasted another two hours of life in stupid SC, unable to understand how fast or slow it wanted me to go, the "slow down" message ALWAYS pops up too late, so always overshoot at least twice, you have to sit there nursing the controls while dinner burns on the stove because the ETA's dysfunctional, there's no pause and no autopilot. IT'S PAINFUL. "Fun" for masochists maybe but THIS IS NOT ELITE!

Elite was fun and engaging. It never made me resent every playing second. It never wasted my time. It was always rewarding. I kept playing because i was progressing and enjoying myself, not because i was locked in by the atrocious game design.

As it is, SC is utterly ruining Elite - along with missing pause, autopilot, external views and side / rear windows. It's a dull, boring and agonising grind with no fun whatsoever.

FD really need to pull their fingers out and sort this mess pronto... i can't be the only one almost out of patience.
 
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Agreed OP. Im supporting the devs possible add of being able to inter system jump IF there are more stars in it. But to ZAP instantly to any place... Cmon, thats just ...boring.
 
SC is fine for 5 minute travel times.
Any longer than 10 min is waste of game. I will Never go there.
Not ever.

Nothing wrong with SC but if I can jump to a star then why cant I jump to any star within jump range?
 
I agree, SC is fine.

If people feel that there is no point to go to explore some distant place, or to trade to some distant station. I think the idea that profits/prices are increased is not a bad "fix" to this.

I am trading in a system where multiple stations are actually having the same price of product A. I always go to the closest one of course. So in one way this kind of fix could make the game more interesting for me as well, not because of the same reasons, but still.
 
Let's not forget - once you can walk around in your ship there may be more to do during supercruise.


I *would* say that I'd like an auto slowdown system IF I've targeted something and am heading towards it.

The number of times I start checking something on the forums and forget to hit "engines to 75%" when the timer hits 7 seconds!


OR an audible alert BEFORE I need to slowdown. Not 5 seconds too late :)
 
I personally like Supercruise the way it is too. This is a pretty polarizing topic. There are many people who enjoy a faster instant gratification to getting into action situations typical of videogames today. There are people who are more about the simulation and immersion.

Look at WWII flight sims. You have to take off, fly to target, shoot target, fly back, land to rearm..and some games it's like hours of real time just flying for 1min of shooting. But there are people who love it, it's their fun.

At the end of the day it's just about respecting the developers vision and creation, and voting with your wallet. Sure, there are opportunities for improvement, but I really appreciate what I have now, because it's better than the nothing that we had for a long time.
 
Supercruise is (mostly) ok.
Flying to Hutton Orbital in supercruise is NOT ok.

Let's not forget - once you can walk around in your ship there may be more to do during supercruise.

Let's not forget - when they release walking around your ship, there will be more other space games to play instead of the game-of-waiting-in-supercruise.

OR an audible alert BEFORE I need to slowdown. Not 5 seconds too late :)

+1
 
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