SUGGESTION - Squads with AI

[=71st=RuSh]

AFAIK, in the new version will be released a new grouping mode to form squadrons, if it is possible, not only of humans, but AI.

For example, I have several ships: Corvette, ASP X, Python etc, and want to hire an AI for each of this ships and form a squad with them, they will be my wingman, so I can play in OPEN or SOLO with all the flotilla at my side!

Regards!.

 

[bicarbon8]

AFAIK, in the new version will be released a new grouping mode to form squadrons, if it is possible, not only of humans, but AI.

For example, I have several ships: Corvette, ASP X, Python etc, and want to hire an AI for each of this ships and form a squad with them, they will be my wingman, so I can play in OPEN or SOLO with all the flotilla at my side!

Regards!.

seen this kind of thing requested many times (i.e. using NPC pilots in your other ships to form a wing). I still think it would be a really good addition to the game and agree that, with the addition of squadrons, it would be something useful so that you can actively defend your squadron ship as a solo pilot by using the same mechanism used for ship launched fighter crew.

I only wish there were a voting system on posts like this so that FDev could more easily see (and so we consumers could also see) how truly popular an idea is and if popular enough it would be added to FDev's backlog for implementation in the game.

 

[StiTch]

This would be absolutely ridiculous.

I know peeps want an easy game and all, but surely one reaches a point where ya just think that hiring an entire wing of engineered ships under your control is both ridiculous and boring.

Five seconds of pouring lead into an NPC from all angles and repeat? Nah. Let's leave wings for what they were intended to do, aye?

 

[JosiahD]

This would be absolutely ridiculous.

I know peeps want an easy game and all, but surely one reaches a point where ya just think that hiring an entire wing of engineered ships under your control is both ridiculous and boring.

Five seconds of pouring lead into an NPC from all angles and repeat? Nah. Let's leave wings for what they were intended to do, aye?

Boring to you maybe. Many of us want the ability to hire NPC wingmates simply because it MAKES SENSE. Just like putting NPC crew into those empty chairs MAKES SENSE. Sure, NPC wingmates will make some content easier but will at the same time make more challenging content more accessible - especially for those who prefer solo mode. How about those situations where a trader wants some NPC escorts? That miner who wants a couple of NPCs flying CAP for him/her? Both just like NPCs themselves can have already. All that is desired is for players to have the same NPC wingmates that NPCs themselves already have, and the AI is already capable of handling it.

I don't like the idea of NPCs flying my ships, or being used to populate the coming Squadrons with NPCs instead of players, but the ability to hire NPC wingmates is sorely needed and long overdue. Wings should never have been released without an NPC option, just as multicrew shouldn't have.

 

[StiTch]

Boring to you maybe. Many of us want the ability to hire NPC wingmates simply because it MAKES SENSE. Just like putting NPC crew into those empty chairs MAKES SENSE.

Not that sense and boredom are directly related, but you know what'd MAKE SENSE? Removing the canopy entirely. Canopies are a terrible fabrication for space combat; you would be hidden in the middle of a ship in a bridge that uses displays.

Luckily, decisions should be made for gameplay reasons and not to satisfy "sense". Of course, we both know this is simply about players wanting to sit alone in an asteroid field raking in money for holding their trigger button at the enemy for a few seconds. Hell, with a wing of engineered NPCs, you wouldn't even need to do that; just equip turrets that fire at will, hold down the trigger, and go have a tea party while they do all the work for you.

Wings are literally a multiplayer feature. If you want a solo play experience, then you've deliberately opted out of multiplayer content.

 

[bicarbon8]

Not that sense and boredom are directly related, but you know what'd MAKE SENSE? Removing the canopy entirely. Canopies are a terrible fabrication for space combat; you would be hidden in the middle of a ship in a bridge that uses displays.

Luckily, decisions should be made for gameplay reasons and not to satisfy "sense". Of course, we both know this is simply about players wanting to sit alone in an asteroid field raking in money for holding their trigger button at the enemy for a few seconds. Hell, with a wing of engineered NPCs, you wouldn't even need to do that; just equip turrets that fire at will, hold down the trigger, and go have a tea party while they do all the work for you.

Wings are literally a multiplayer feature. If you want a solo play experience, then you've deliberately opted out of multiplayer content.

you'd still need to scan all targets before you engage or you'd end up with quite the bounty on your head. Also, NPC's often times have wings and I've been killed quite a few times by them when using my ship with an SLF controlled by a hired NPC so I don't think it would be quite as easy as you make it out to be.

 

[StiTch]

you'd still need to scan all targets before you engage or you'd end up with quite the bounty on your head.

Are we literally at the point players consider this relevant? "I don't farm NPCs that quickly; I mean, I still have to scan them".

Of course it would make this ridiculously easy. A ship and SLF does not equate to a wing of 4 engineered ships. Good thing is I cannot see even FD thinking this is a good idea.

 

[bicarbon8]

Are we literally at the point players consider this relevant? "I don't farm NPCs that quickly; I mean, I still have to scan them".

Of course it would make this ridiculously easy. A ship and SLF does not equate to a wing of 4 engineered ships. Good thing is I cannot see even FD thinking this is a good idea.

why couldn't the enemy NPC wings be engineered as well?

How about if you're playing in Solo, you can have NPC wings and the difficulty of enemy NPC's will be adjusted to match (already happens based on your own combat ratings and the mission ratings) and if you're playing in Open you can't have NPC wings (not sure why real players should fear this, but I think if it makes you uncomfortable as a possibility then there are probably others who agree with you).

I don't see this as changing the balance in farming NPC's in a High Res with High Security as you only need fire a mining laser at a wanted NPC and then let the Police response do the rest currently if you wanted to farm... no additional wings needed for that.

 

[StiTch]

why couldn't the enemy NPC wings be engineered as well?

*chuckles* convince FD to give us tough engineered NPCs and you have my blessing.

How about if you're playing in Solo, you can have NPC wings and the difficulty of enemy NPC's will be adjusted to match (already happens based on your own combat ratings and the mission ratings) and if you're playing in Open you can't have NPC wings (not sure why real players should fear this, but I think if it makes you uncomfortable as a possibility then there are probably others who agree with you).

I don't see this as changing the balance in farming NPC's in a High Res with High Security as you only need fire a mining laser at a wanted NPC and then let the Police response do the rest currently if you wanted to farm... no additional wings needed for that.

I always wanted to say this...why should solo players have content others don't!!!1!

Srs bsns, let's get real. FD had enough balancing concerns about a single fighter; you'll notice you cannot deploy both fighters with NPCs, and need a CMDR in multicrew to do so. They aren't about to let players waltz out of station with three anacondas trailing behind them that they bought. There's just no justification for it other than "I want to blow things up with minimal effort".

If it ever made it in-game, I'd just hire a wing of fed gunships with long range rails and single-handedly destroy every CMDR at an engineer's base in moments. That'd prove how balanced it would be.

 

[Iskariot]

I only wish there were a voting system on posts like this so that FDev could more easily see (and so we consumers could also see) how truly popular an idea is and if popular enough it would be added to FDev's backlog for implementation in the game.

I have no doubt they know it is popular.
I assume there are reasons we don't have it yet.
I bet if this were an offline solo game we would already have this (and npc crew).
Perhaps they are thinking about how to combine a mechanic like this with multiplayer wings and multiplayer multicrew.

I still hope in the future we will eventually get an offline solo version of ED so we can have cool things.

 

[JosiahD]

Not that sense and boredom are directly related, but you know what'd MAKE SENSE? Removing the canopy entirely. Canopies are a terrible fabrication for space combat; you would be hidden in the middle of a ship in a bridge that uses displays.

Luckily, decisions should be made for gameplay reasons and not to satisfy "sense". Of course, we both know this is simply about players wanting to sit alone in an asteroid field raking in money for holding their trigger button at the enemy for a few seconds. Hell, with a wing of engineered NPCs, you wouldn't even need to do that; just equip turrets that fire at will, hold down the trigger, and go have a tea party while they do all the work for you.

Wings are literally a multiplayer feature. If you want a solo play experience, then you've deliberately opted out of multiplayer content.

Wings is only a multiplayer feature right now as that's all Frontier has done with it thus far. Absolutely no reason it couldn't include NPC options, even if it were limited to one ship in much the same way as we're limited to one SLF. Multicrew is also thus far only multiplayer.....except that's right, we can already recruit NPC crew that can function much like multicrew already in piloting SLFs - we just can't put em in those empty chairs for some reason or get the extra power pips. Seems to me like you're being obstructionist simply because you don't want others to have access to content that we all have but that you opt to use using other players. Yet we keep hearing on these forums how the AI is so easy, no match for a human player even in numbers, so NPC wingmates wouldn't really be quite the advantage you think against other players right? Except if used as a ganking tool of course, to use your own example, but then people gank others now with Wings of players - what's the difference. So you don't want solo players who choose to play in open to have the option of having NPC wingmates for added protection against wings of players, or engineered gankers, not to mention the benefits to solo players in solo mode against NPC wings? There's no doubt NPC wingmates would make some content much easier, but in turn it would make the more difficult content more accessible, but not necessarily that much easier given NPCs are no match for players apparently (ie a multiplayer wing would always be the preferred option over NPCs in such cases).

 

[StiTch]

Wings is only a multiplayer feature right now as that's all Frontier has done with it thus far. Absolutely no reason it couldn't include NPC options, even if it were limited to one ship in much the same way as we're limited to one SLF. Multicrew is also thus far only multiplayer.....except that's right, we can already recruit NPC crew that can function much like multicrew already in piloting SLFs - we just can't put em in those empty chairs for some reason or get the extra power pips. Seems to me like you're being obstructionist simply because you don't want others to have access to content that we all have but that you opt to use using other players. Yet we keep hearing on these forums how the AI is so easy, no match for a human player even in numbers, so NPC wingmates wouldn't really be quite the advantage you think against other players right? Except if used as a ganking tool of course, to use your own example, but then people gank others now with Wings of players - what's the difference. So you don't want solo players who choose to play in open to have the option of having NPC wingmates for added protection against wings of players, or engineered gankers, not to mention the benefits to solo players in solo mode against NPC wings? There's no doubt NPC wingmates would make some content much easier, but in turn it would make the more difficult content more accessible, but not necessarily that much easier given NPCs are no match for players apparently (ie a multiplayer wing would always be the preferred option over NPCs in such cases).

Look dude, be honest...it's an outright ridiculous idea. There is no justification other than wanting an easy time of the game. Crewmates sat next to you? Nice, but not a priority. Full wing of NPCs in your ships?

Not sure why I am posting here because at the end of the day FD aren't stupid enough to implement something like this. Wings are simply a way to let players communicate and act as a group; the players still need to be there first. What you are asking for is a magical NPC army. Do your own work.

 

[LuxAeterna]

I agree with Stitch on this one. Cool idea but in the long run it doesn't make much sense in solo mode. SOLO, key word there. Hop in open mode and squad up with some players if you want a wing of stone-cold killers or protectors. That would be a MUCH better alternative than flaky AIs!

 

[JosiahD]

Look dude, be honest...it's an outright ridiculous idea. There is no justification other than wanting an easy time of the game. Crewmates sat next to you? Nice, but not a priority. Full wing of NPCs in your ships?

Not sure why I am posting here because at the end of the day FD aren't stupid enough to implement something like this. Wings are simply a way to let players communicate and act as a group; the players still need to be there first. What you are asking for is a magical NPC army. Do your own work.

Look dude, that's your opinion. It is not mine and not that of many others. You're entitled to your opinion as I am mine. I can only speak for myself and I can assure for me it has NOTHING to do with making the game super easy. For mine, it's about whether it simply makes sense in the context of the game. As so many other seem to continually assert on these forums, the game is supposedly already too easy. Yet I can also assure that this is not universally true across the playerbase. It's in no way an outright ridiculous idea, but clearly there would be no convincing you no matter what argument was put forward. I'm not asking for a magical NPC army at all - just a construct that actually makes sense in the context of the game. In fact it makes no sense NOT to be able to recruit NPC wingmates. But again, there's no convincing you because you're blinkered to your own opinion and unable to see how the ability to recruit NPC wingmates actually fits in the context of things - players can have player wingmates, NPCs can have NPC wingmates, yet players can't have NPC wingmates and NPCs can't have player wingmates (as in proper escort missions). Makes no sense in context - forget the multiplayer aspect for a second and think about how nonsensical that actually is. Whether Frontier would ever implement NPC wingmates is another question and there could well be technical reasons that might prevent it, but from a common sense point of view, having NPC wingmates should be a part of that construct, even if with limitations such as only able to hire one at a time, or having such a cost imposed that it would be the exception rather than the rule. And in any event, we're supposed to play our way, so why would you even care whether others want to play it with NPC wingmates and supposedly make the game even easier? What difference would it possibly make to how you play your game your way?

I agree with Stitch on this one. Cool idea but in the long run it doesn't make much sense in solo mode. SOLO, key word there. Hop in open mode and squad up with some players if you want a wing of stone-cold killers or protectors. That would be a MUCH better alternative than flaky AIs!

You don't get that solo only means not playing with other players huh? Doesn't mean NPC wingmates aren't a valid requirement in solo mode given that NPCs themselves regularly fly in wings....

 

[StiTch]

But again, there's no convincing you because you're blinkered to your own opinion

Tu quoque. If you believe only others capable of intransigence, pull yer head out

Again, for all your complaints, we both know this has nothing to do with continuity. Wings link together players that already exist; there's nothing in Elite Dangerous lore that states you have a retinue of non-PF followers to link together in the first place. This is a "blaze your own trail" game, not Fleet Organiser 2017.

Next up: NPCs get capital ships and armies to deploy in CZs. As NPCs get this, so should I. FD, I demand a capital ship and a personal escort of twenty NPC navy ships, because like an NPC I don't want to have to think while playing.

 

[bicarbon8]

I agree with Stitch on this one. Cool idea but in the long run it doesn't make much sense in solo mode. SOLO, key word there. Hop in open mode and squad up with some players if you want a wing of stone-cold killers or protectors. That would be a MUCH better alternative than flaky AIs!

some of us don't have the option of playing in open. I'm on the PS4 and to play in open I'd need a monthly subscription, so no open option for me.

Also, I've no problems with the difficulty of the game (meaning, maybe it IS a bit easy), but would welcome the ability to wing up with NPC's flying my own ships just for the additional fun it could bring when you're out exploring or the additional options it could provide in combat.

If everyone is able to have NPC / Real player wings then I don't think it would cause any kind of imbalance as only the new players who are working to build up their fleet would struggle in solo combat if they were to go up against wings of enemies. But not all combat is dealing with wings and Elite isn't all about combat either.

Miners would be able to have fleets of defenders while they mine, truckers would be able to have wings to defend them while transporting, bounty hunters would be able to have wings while hunting and grievers would be able to have wings while going around causing havok... as it stands now, unless you have some friends who are happy with sitting around doing nothing while you mine an asteroid field, you'd be hard pressed to convince someone to wing up to defend you while mining

 

[=71st=RuSh]

Look dude, be honest...it's an outright ridiculous idea. There is no justification other than wanting an easy time of the game. Crewmates sat next to you? Nice, but not a priority. Full wing of NPCs in your ships?

Not sure why I am posting here because at the end of the day FD aren't stupid enough to implement something like this. Wings are simply a way to let players communicate and act as a group; the players still need to be there first. What you are asking for is a magical NPC army. Do your own work.

Maybe you dont like it, but I have been playing DCS world campaigns in solo for a while, and is amazing to combat against a lot of enemy fighters giving orders to my NPC wingmans! Even in MP most players design COOP missions against the NPC and are really interesting and realistics.

By the way, if I remember in the ED tutorial, you have a couple of NPC wingman with you! it's still there?

As bicarbon8 states, sometimes in HAZ or HIGH RES, you and your NPC fighter are not enough to keep the pirates NPCs scanning and shooting you while mining, will be a different story if you have a complete squad.

 

[LuxAeterna]

Okay! Let's say Fdev makes this dream of yours come true and implements this idea. So now you have to pay for a fleet of ships to command. Considering a NPC crew costs 25% of your earnings for an Expert NPC we'll apply the same to hired wingmen (though it should cost more, IMO). You hire 3 wingmen to your fleet at 25% per ship. That's now 75% of your profits going out the window so that you can have your "fleet of NPC ships." You make 1 million in mining, bounties, trade in which you get 250k credits for the endeavor. How is this method profitable?

And AGAIN I get it! You want a wing of ships plain and simple! There's nothing hard to understand about what your talking about.

I play in closed 90% of the time. So this isn't a snap at trying to get you to play open just stating there are mechanics already in place in open mode like you described but for players. I respect your idea but I'm entitled to an opinion as well. Since you posted your thread here to be criticized in a public setting and I'm... well... critical of this idea.

G'day and fly safe CMDR's! o7

 

[bicarbon8]

Okay! Let's say Fdev makes this dream of yours come true and implements this idea. So now you have to pay for a fleet of ships to command. Considering a NPC crew costs 25% of your earnings for an Expert NPC we'll apply the same to hired wingmen (though it should cost more, IMO). You hire 3 wingmen to your fleet at 25% per ship. That's now 75% of your profits going out the window so that you can have your "fleet of NPC ships." You make 1 million in mining, bounties, trade in which you get 250k credits for the endeavor. How is this method profitable?

And AGAIN I get it! You want a wing of ships plain and simple! There's nothing hard to understand about what your talking about.

I play in closed 90% of the time. So this isn't a snap at trying to get you to play open just stating there are mechanics already in place in open mode like you described but for players. I respect your idea but I'm entitled to an opinion as well. Since you posted your thread here to be criticized in a public setting and I'm... well... critical of this idea.

G'day and fly safe CMDR's! o7

Does the same rule not apply when you play as part of an actual wing (i.e. you split the profits)?

Either way, I'm currently paying a percentage for an NPC to occasionally pilot my SLF (6%) so I would expect a similar charge for NPC pilots for other ships I own. Let's assume I go with 4 pilots all making 6% of my profits (that'd mean all the ships I own could fly along with me in a wing and I'd still have one NPC pilot left over to take control of the SLF if needed). This means I'd only be paying 24% of my profits, but would be able to have any ship in my small fleet with me at any time. Most missions I take pay around 1.5-2 million credits (1-2 stop passenger missions) or 500,000 credits (cargo delivery missions) each so I'd still be making a very good income, especially so if my NPC's could also help with carrying out my accepted missions, but I don't think that would happen, nor would it be a good idea given today's mission mechanics. I'd also expect I would likely need to spend more to repair my other ships more often, but for the convenience of always having my fleet with me I would gladly accept that charge.

I suspect there are some developmental hurdles with respect to an NPC wingmate in a ship with a lower jump range and with no fuel scoop trying to keep up with a real player with a large jump range and that does have a fuel scoop because you can't just magically fill the tank and let the NPC keep jumping out into unpopulated systems indefinitely and I think that the planning, design and development time needed to come up with a good solution / mechanism to deal with these types of scenarios is really why this hasn't already been implemented.