SUGGESTIONS: for the game to continue to grow we are going to need these at some point.

[mcdowect]

So I've been playing Elite:dangerous for a little while now and I love it, the ground level (so to speak) grittiness of it is so addictive. from the twitch style dog fights to actually having to dock my own ship. I love it all.


So here is my problem that I see coming, Where do you go when you reach end-game. After you have bought that anaconda or (insert other big ship), after you have the biggest and greatest trading ship, after you reach "elite" status, after you have accumulated hundreds of millions of credits. Thats it, thats all folks, your done, game over. Your still just one pilot and you dont mean anything. You cant build anything that has any effect on anyone, you cant become a military powerhouse, or a financial tycoon, or a trading mogul.


YOU CANT BECOME ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT. thats a problem.


So I have some ideas to change that. Some ideas that are borrowed from other games and some that are not.




*DISCLAIMER: I know this game is still newly released and I understand that these changes are not going to happen over night or even in the near future, but for the game to keep players and continue to grow in to its full potential I believe they are things that need to be added at some point.






So, here we not in any particular order.


PLAYER RUN ECONOMY


right now the economy of Elite is stagnant, yes prices change a little bit here and there but there is no real impact. nearby events dont impact the economy, hundreds of players buy the same things dont increase the prices. we need a player run economy. one where the players create the items and sell them which will create a sort of capitalist system which will give trading much more depth as well as adding new kinds of emergent gameplay. "oh theres a war about to break out in eravate? go buy a few thousand pulse lasers and sell them off when the price skyrockets from people buying them to fight with", do you think mineral prices are going to skyrocket in a few weeks because a group of pirates are ganking miners? stockup and make loads of cash", got hundreds of millions just sittings around? build a trading empire and hire players to transport goods. This leads me to the next idea.


PLAYER MANUFACTURING


To make the player run economy work, and for it to be more than just an anecdotal thing a "crafting system" needs to be put into place. one where players can buy those minerals and metals that people are mining and turn them into usable products for end users to buy. a crafting system is a integral part of EVERY MMO to date, so why is it left out of Elite? that makes no sense. tying players into the process of supplying other players not only adds depth but encourages a cohesive community, when all players rely (to some extent) on each other then those players interact more, and that is the fundamental core of an MMO, interaction. Player crafting would also create other types of emergent gameplay. "oh your competition is out crafting you? pay a merc group to embargo thier shipping routes"


PLAYER BASES


No not just having a place to store stuff in NPC stations, but actual bases. lets face it, people like to have somewhere to call "home" and in a game universe this large, even more so. So how about players being able to build stations. this would of course be very expensive and probably require multiple players working in tandem to pull it off. which would again encourage cooperation and interaction. players could build manufacturing hubs to run a manufacturing empire from, or build military installations and become military powers in the region. the sky is the limit.


RESOURCE EXTRACTION


No not just mining, you could tie the ability to build stations into "mining" moons and planets. this would also encourage emergent gameplay. can you imagine wars being waged over a particularly mineral rich planet?


SHIP DIVERSITY


As of right now there is only really a very linear ship progression depending on what you want to do, you start in a sidewinder, then if your goal is combat you go viper then cobra then python, after you reach a viper the sidewinder becomes obsolete so on so forth, same with trading vessels just different ships. instead of a linear progression each ship should distinguish its self in a particular role so that no ship is outright superior to another.




WALKING IN STATIONS


There I said it, walking in stations "i know its already planned" lets face it, people like to play a character they can relate to, and you cant really relate to a cockpit the way you can a fully flushed out character. but lets remember form follows function, so if we are going to be able to walk around inside stations then it going to have to give us something to do. perhaps thats how you meet black market contacts, you arrange and meeting and go have a drink at the local watering hole and wait for them to show up, because lets be honest, no legitimate black market dealer is going to sell illegal wares straight from his ship so that every authority in the station can trace that transaction back to you.






Well thats all for now guys, let the discussion begin!!

 

[n1L]

What you are describing is not the game I want to play.

 

[mcdowect]

Do you reasons behind that statement?

 

[Hooplah]

> Where do you go when you reach end-game <

That is the problem with the op. There is no end-game in Elite. It is not about building personal empires. You're asking for a multiplayer version of X Beyond the Frontier and Wing Commander. Perhaps the Germans who developed XBTF would benefit from your inputs.

 

[wbonx]

I totally agree witht he initial post, I only want to add that this changes have to be made fast, or the fype will pass and the game will end up empty in few months.

 

[DaggerSnake]

I'm playing for the joy of loosing myself in a space sim, it's not about personal wealth or grinding for gear. I don't want a space version of typical elfish, wizardry MMO mechanics. I know there is a generation of gamers raised on quests, raids, crafting, loot drops, and accumulation of meaningless in game items. I'm sure there is a middle ground to keep everyone playing, I'm pretty happy just trackimg down criminals in my Viper. Hell I would do that for no credits, it's just fun.

 

[iain666]

YOU CANT BECOME ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT. thats a problem.

Is it? Or is it part of the core game and what a lot of us want? One person alone in a ship is the essence of Elite.

 

[GerminVermin]

I agree with the player bases and ship diversity -the latter being a very significant detractor in its current state.

The other suggestions are bogus.

 

[Skanvak]

Well, plz make more significant title. This one is very self important. Nevertheless I read it.

First of all, the first Elite was like this. At one point you stop and move to something else. May be we can say it is a game and not real life.

Second, I definetly not want to see crafting. In Elite you play pilot in an advanced society with a real economy, that mean that product are made in factories. The population in Elite is very important and the player are only a limited part of it.

Third, the economy is player driven as far as I understand it, it just that you are in zone were there are few players so the demands are not dried up. Though Having a player driven economy is a nice point in a sand box, as I said population is important so production and demand cannot depend on player, the player action can affect them (supplying with transport, drying with buying or pirating). I like the idea of piracy (player and npc) impacting supply and demand in nearby system.

Colonization can be interesting but there are other thead on the subject : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101033

I don't care for walking in station, but I believe they want to do it. This is not the subject though.

For ship diversity. Well I do think that more diversity is needed and there are more ship in the planing. But then Elite is about improving what you have so yes, some ship must be superior to other though more differences would be better. At least today an anaconda feel like a huge ship, because in Elite one they pop like a sidewinder near the sun.

As for the last point : Could we have player becoming someone?... Well I do think that translating this military rank into something and pputing the money to good use would be nice. So having a Space Tycoon module included (but then you are no longer a pilot, I would be a bit disappointing of seeing CEO flying cargo ship), the problem will become the same, what do you do of the huge money built by the empire you control? Though I might actually like to see possibility for player to become Tycoon or political figures, the point is that at some point you don't have a goal (Pirate had a goal because at some point you must retire, do you want mandatory retirement?). Let's be clear, I am ok for a Tycoon like feature where the player play the CEO (making the big decision) but definetly not a crafting system.

One other things that people should not forget is that part of the galaxy is control by existing faction and player cannot compete with them, really.

 

[Grayman]

Like a lot of the others have said, that is Elite. You're asking for Elite to not be Elite, it's simply not going to happen.
What you want is a full-control version of EvE Online or some other similar title. While I agree that it would be cool, it's simply not Elite.
As David Braben has said, "make the game you want to play". Trust me, there's plenty I would have done differently were I behind a game in a similar genre that didn't have a prerequisite style to follow but Frontier really has stuck to the essence of the old on this one and they seem happy with it.

I heard that there is another game, slated to come out sometime next year maybe, that is supposed to be more in line with the sort of thing you're asking for. Heard it did quite well in Kickstarter too, you should check it out.
For now, however, just enjoy what you have and see what the future holds. FDev have a list a mile long of features they can take from and hundreds if not more pages of Design Discussion Forums from people who were on-board with the game a lot longer than you were. They're also not code machines, they're human (as far as we know...). They'll get things out as they do.
Report bugs and otherwise, simply enjoy the game for what it is. If you bought the game on wishful thinking that it would be something that was never promised or that you would have your input made reality you have none to blame but yourself.
Everyone has suggestions, maybe they need to make games (and put their money/time where their mouth is) instead of suggesting to others how they should make their games...

 

[Agony_Aunt]

YOU CANT BECOME ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT.

Yes, its brilliant isn't it? You are not the Dovakhin nor will you ever be! Everyone is the same.... its so deliciously, dare i say it, communist!

Oh, by the way, your caps lock key appears to be broken.

 

[mcdowect]

I'm seeing a lot of "elite is one pilot, one ship" and thats fine thats how you want to play, none of the suggestions I offered would take that away from you, the suggestions I offered would only add depth to the game, a player run economy necessarily means a more dynamic universe. And who wants to play in a universe that feels dead, thats immersion breaking. as far as the population in Elite, what population? you see no NPC faces, you talk to no one directly, the NPC ships you see arent really part of the universe, they are just put there for visuals, they dont have any impact on anything,(other than making you wait to dock lol) the closest you get to interacting with an in-game "population" is a message on a mission screen. and as far as there being no "end-game" thats bull, there is always an end-game, right now its you buy whatever ship you want and start amassing wealth that you cant use for anything. the suggestions I offer would add depth to that end-game and allow you to influence the people and systems around you. And as far as the "thats just not Elite" so what? shouldn't we want the game to be the absolute best it can possibly be? shouldn't we want the depth to continue to grow until we have an ocean to swim in, not just a ocean sized kiddy pool? how does a crafting system detract from the "one pilot, one ship" style of play you want? im not talking about removing the npc economy, just adding a second more dynamic one. if anything it adds to the depth of "one pilot, one ship" because now instead of flying around killing npc's for no reason or for the rep grind, perhaps someone could hire you to go toe to toe with specific npc's or players, or to pirate a system.

 

[Tiamat]

YOU CANT BECOME ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT. thats a problem.

This is supposed to be the case. You are not the all-conquering hero at the centre of the story, you are just one tiny grain of sand in the universe.

PLAYER RUN ECONOMY

The word "crashed" is not spelt like that. If the economy was player run people would be crashing it for their own gains all the time. Also, there would be no trading outside systems with players in so it wouldn't work anyway. Events do impact the economy by the way and so do players to a degree but the economy is not completely dependent on them.

PLAYER MANUFACTURING

Personally I wouldn't object to a bit of crafting (ships, modules and weapons) but you would need to own stations for it to be possible.

PLAYER BASES

Player bases would tie you to one system so unless you have a way of "teleporting" between ships you own (keeping one parked at your base) I think very few players would use bases.

RESOURCE EXTRACTION

Again, without bases and teleporting this wouldn't really work.

SHIP DIVERSITY

This is already the case as ships already have roles. In skilled hands a Viper or Eagle can take down a Python as they are dedicated combat ships. A Cobra is multi-role depending on how you outfit. The ship progression isn't linear at all.

WALKING IN STATIONS

What will be possible here isn't known yet but I am absolutely certain you won't have an avatar with customisable features as it doesn't suit the style of the game. None of the previous games gave you an avatar.

 

[Skanvak]

perhaps someone could hire you to go toe to toe with specific npc's or players, or to pirate a system.

That's already the case and depth will increase.

Concerning the population, I guess your are not confortable with abstration. Elite has an old philosophy (ie it is not a MMORPG) and each planet has a population, those population range in billions more often than not and it is accompted in the economy system. So you cannot say they are not here. This is the economic system. When it take the action of a player it compare it to the action of the billions of NPC.

As for the end-gamùe, it is sad we cannot understand each other. The very concept of end-game is self defeating. It is what you do when you have finish the game. Well as long as you play you have not finish the game, Elite work this way.

I have difficulty with your argument like "allow you to influence system" because the game already allow you to influence system. More depth should come according to what FD say.

I think you should review the way you present your suggestion. Everyone want more depth but which one is the question. When I look at the time I have play Elite and the added element of Elite Dangerous, I think there is much more depth in ED so it should be enough. But of course we won't stop at asking more.

Still having non-pilot opportunity can be interesting having retired pilot running Trading corporation or other and interacting with the player (and npc). Though the proposal must be far more detailled and have a good model.

 

[mcdowect]

player run economies dont work? really? you are aware that almost all MMO's have a player run economy right? as for player stations tying you to one system. how? its not like you would plop down a station and suddenly your unable to travel to any other system, bases would just give you somewhere to store things, somewhere to operate out of, somewhere to call home, and lets face it no one wants to be a full time nomad, after all how many people have you met who actually want to be homeless?

"none of the previous game gave you an avatar"

this is poor reasoning and a dangerous (lol pun) way of thinking just because something wasent done before dosent mean its not a good idea. Something does not have to be broken before you can try to make it better.

 

[Twotricks]

Excellent post

Most of these will have to be implemented sometime in future if Frontier has any forward hope for this game.

ED is very basic at this point - and if this is the point where Frontier is "comfortable" with what the game should be. Than I am honestly surprised and disappointed.

 

[Robert Maynard]

YOU CANT BECOME ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT. thats a problem.

I don't agree - it is a rather refreshing break from the "*YOU* are the special one and can save the universe!!" trope. We are single pilots in single ships - no fleets to control, no drones, no automated processes - we play the game with what we fly.

So I have some ideas to change that. Some ideas that are borrowed from other games and some that are not.

Some of them are indeed borrowed from other successful games - why would Frontier want to be seen to be directly copying another game's content?

*DISCLAIMER: I know this game is still newly released and I understand that these changes are not going to happen over night or even in the near future, but for the game to keep players and continue to grow in to its full potential I believe they are things that need to be added at some point.

We'll be waiting a while for the EVA major expansion but, for most of them, you may well be waiting significantly longer than that.

 

[Mephane]

YOU CANT BECOME ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT. thats a problem.

No, that is the premise at the heart of the game.

 

[bofhenator]

and lets face it no one wants to be a full time nomad

I do...
(8strokes)

 

[Jaeger]

> Where do you go when you reach end-game <

That is the problem with the op. There is no end-game in Elite. It is not about building personal empires. You're asking for a multiplayer version of X Beyond the Frontier and Wing Commander. Perhaps the Germans who developed XBTF would benefit from your inputs.

This is so true, Elite is not the only show in town. Hopefully one of the others will meet the requirements of those who basically want a Dangerous Eve Online.

Personally I can't wait, because that game will be truly awesome.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

No, that is the premise at the heart of the game.

No, not having features is not a game, it's artwork like a painting or sculpture.