SUGGESTIONS: for the game to continue to grow we are going to need these at some point.

[Jaeger]

Some of them are indeed borrowed from other successful games - why would Frontier want to be seen to be directly copying another game's content?

You are mistaking a lack of well known and understood game mechanics for original game content. There is nothing wrong with implementing tried and trusted mechanisms, it's not plagiarism.

The lack of features in Elite Dangerous, for example not implementing a PvP flag is a failed experiment in developing emergent gameplay. What has emerged is a game universe with rules built around victimisation of other players through piracy (or play alone.)

It's a tragic moral failure.

 

[Robert Maynard]

You are mistaking a lack of well known and understood game mechanics for original game content. There is nothing wrong with implementing tried and trusted mechanisms, it's not plagiarism.

The lack of features in Elite Dangerous, for example not implementing a PvP flag is a failed experiment in developing emergent gameplay. What has emerged is a game universe with rules built around victimisation of other players through piracy (or play alone.)

It's a tragic moral failure.

While implementing well worn game mechanics may not be plagiarism, it also seems not to be the intent of the developers - if the features in the OP were desired by the developers, or were deemed mandatory for the success of the Kickstarter pitch, they would have been included in the stated game design (which was "published" over two years ago). The game is not yet feature complete and Frontier are committed to developing the game - we'll see, in time, what additional content we are offered.

The lack of a PvP flag is hardly a "failed experiment", in my opinion, to introduce one would create more problems than it would solve. Sandro posted in the "Interdiction Dodgers" thread last night: here and here (and several other times) - there are quite enlightening with respect to the view of the Lead Designer for the game on player interaction.

 

[Skanvak]

The lack of features in Elite Dangerous, for example not implementing a PvP flag is a failed experiment in developing emergent gameplay. What has emerged is a game universe with rules built around victimisation of other players through piracy (or play alone.)

It's a tragic moral failure.

That is the premis of the game. I am very happy that the pvp is fully open, that force you to have realist interaction with other player (and I remind you that the law prohibit piracy). As for the pvp flag the possibility to play alone is really too gentle but does the trick better than in any other game. I don't want to see a potential target be invicible because it is a player. The fact that player and noc follow the same rules is really a must for a sand box (otherwise you can go play theme park game).

After, if piracy bother you don't do piracy (I don't) and hunt pirate to protect law abiding traders. Having player in the game doing piracy is technically a moral failure, would you say that GTA is a moral failure? I think you are on wrong assumption that doing something to a npc is really different to doing it to another player. It is the same thing as long as it in the game and for inside game reasoning.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

ED is very basic at this point - and if this is the point where Frontier is "comfortable" with what the game should be. Than I am honestly surprised and disappointed.

I guess you have done zero research about this game or FDs long term plans for the game.

I recommend you do so before making a similar post again.

 

[n1L]

No, not having features is not a game, it's artwork like a painting or sculpture.

The heart of the game is: "You are just a grain in the Universe!" It's simply not possible that everyone is the Emperor. Or the big Hero. If everyone is the big guy, it's not big anymore. There are many games where you can be the hero. ED is different. It's not the lack of features! It's that it's showing you that you are just one of many. It's not placing you on the podest so many other games are placing you on. That's the reason it's more of a space sim than a space game. And people like us like this aspect.

As a trader it's more a game like Euro Truck simulator. Would you want to change Euro Truck simulator so someone could build the Roads and so on and expect it to stay the same?

I don't know good equivalents for Bounty hunting and Pirating. But let's check the combat's going on in the Space. Do you think one little ship could change anything? It's not Hollywood! You are not the big guy in this game. And that's great! WE don't want to change that.

What you are asking for is not Elite. It'd be a great game, I'm sure. But why do all of you guys think Frontier has to develop the game YOU want? You are describing the thinks we like in ED as big mistakes from FD! No, they are not! It's simply not the game you want! And it's not up to anyone here (including me of course) to decide what FD has to do. It's their decision! And so far I think they have done a great job!

I also don't want players (alone) to fight over some mining bases. there's the military and the police for that! That's not up to you to do that! If you think it should in a reality based sandbox game then go out of your door and fight over the next power plant or any real world building. Unrealistic? That's the point!

More ships will surely come. And no I can not relate to the game more if i can get out of my ship. It'll be very arkward if I've built my Cockpit and I'l be walking around the station in it.....

You want a different game than me. I want to play a somewhat realistic and relatable future. Like I've travelled to the future. Will i get to be President xy there? As i'm not now why should I be then?

I have no problem's with the fact that such a game'd be fun. But I like to play my 3300 A.D. Simulator.

 

[QziQza]

player run economies dont work? really? you are aware that almost all MMO's have a player run economy right? as for player stations tying you to one system. how? its not like you would plop down a station and suddenly your unable to travel to any other system, bases would just give you somewhere to store things, somewhere to operate out of, somewhere to call home, and lets face it no one wants to be a full time nomad, after all how many people have you met who actually want to be homeless?

"none of the previous game gave you an avatar"

this is poor reasoning and a dangerous (lol pun) way of thinking just because something wasent done before dosent mean its not a good idea. Something does not have to be broken before you can try to make it better.

i can understand your line of thought, but other mmo's have player run economies purely for the players. the economy in Elite is for the game as a whole.. billions of lives in an long long line of inhabitable systems are totally dependant on the game economy, in fact much of the game is driven on it. put the majority of the control of that solely into the hands player base would be a short road to long ruin. as someone else mentioned, we are but grains of sand in this universe, we can still have a marginal effect, tip the scales, encourage change, but only through the fixed channels that are available, thats just how the game works and is structured.. tweak it? sure, change it? no. Im tired of playing games where every player is some shining hero, or dark destroying fiend. in Elite, i am just a trader, doing pretty well for myself, and enjoying space, occasionally i'll jump in my cobra and go do some payback, or add my offensive support to the system i happen to be working.. its great!!

As for being nomads.. being a nomad doesnt mean having no home.. ask the Bedouin, their tents are their homes. In this game we are pirates, bounty hunters, explorers and traders, we move with the work, and we live in our ships or the accomodation in ports as we pass through. Why would we want to put down roots? not too mention the added, and wastefull expense, of owning a base or appartment when we would spent little to no time there. a home base is for retirement or maybe a change in function when you are ready to give up flying, you're not ready to give up flying are you? lol

Regards

 

[QziQza]

I guess you have done zero research about this game or FDs long term plans for the game.

I recommend you do so before making a similar post again.

Indeed,

i love the fact that right from the start they made the decisive choice of providing a non-matured or finished environment. they have given us somethuing that will grow and develope with the player base over time. you cant rush something like this, without taking something away from it.

 

[Odin Wyrmbane]

I'm very excited to see where the devs will take this game in say, 2-3 years time. The features being discussed here would definitely require a lot of man-hours to implement properly, but I'm absolutely SURE that the devs have reviewed ideas much like these and had their own conclusions about them.

As for the suggestions you come up with. I see a lot of skepticism in this debate regarding the "essence" of Elite. You cannot have X because that is not what Elite is about. Personally I feel this is a very limiting argument that would ultimately end up with a game that after a few years would simply die out for 90% of the player base that are now enjoying the game. Sure there would be a few hardcore Elite fans out there that loves it, but to the majority I think the game would become somewhat tiresome if nothing new is implemented that gives players a feeling of importance and belonging. I'll be the first to say that I'm LOVING this game. It's absolutely amazing, and I'm super stoked to log on every day. But will I feel the same when I got more cash than I can spend, I have the best equipment on my ship? I don't know, but I'm honestly afraid to find out.

A lot of the suggestions OP has come with here might need to be refined, but the core of the ideas is to add more player interaction, and a more player-driven world. I got a few friends that play this game, and we play together (as far as the game allows us to). We ALWAYS talk about how amazing it would be if we could spend a lot of time and money to buy our own little "hub", where we could have a few landing pads, a place to stock some resources, have a shop where we can buy the basic stuff like ammunition and repairs. Over time our little gang of mischief could drastically impact the politics in our little part of the solar system. A very local change, but a change that makes us feel like we have achieved something. As time goes on, out little hub has grown to support multiple landing pads. We can hire security to scan people who want to visit, or perhaps we'd like to do that ourselves? What about travelling to distant solar systems to set up trade routes to our little station? Pirates in our part of the system take notice of our ever growing intrusion, and we get attacked! Good think we just spent a lot of money upgrading the station's armament, or hired more expensive security around the station! A few years go by, and now we have a pretty big station that even has a shipyard for people to buy new ships! I mean, these are just some quick ideas on player created bases. It's a way of creating interaction, role-playing, enjoyment and ultimately FUN. Perhaps this is not what YOU want to spend your time doing, but that is what Elite is all about! I don't want to spend my time mining minerals, but I don't want to stop others from enjoying that part of the game. I don't really find much interest in running trade routes either, but I love that others do so. You see what I'm getting at here? As long as people feel like they can spend their time doing what THEY want to do in the game, how can that be a bad thing? My ideas above would not scale up to us creating a faction, just a place we call home. I like to keep it local, I'm not a person who sets out to distant stars in search of new adventures. I like to keep to my little cluster of close stars and spend my time there. Having a base where me and my friends can gather up and enjoy ourselves would be great.

This game has literally endless of design opportunities, and I hope to see a constant progression in the future to create even more immersion in the universe! I am stoked to see what this game holds in store, and I will be very, very patient also ;-)

 

[Odin Wyrmbane]

As for being nomads.. being a nomad doesnt mean having no home.. ask the Bedouin, their tents are their homes. In this game we are pirates, bounty hunters, explorers and traders, we move with the work, and we live in our ships or the accomodation in ports as we pass through. Why would we want to put down roots? not too mention the added, and wastefull expense, of owning a base or appartment when we would spent little to no time there. a home base is for retirement or maybe a change in function when you are ready to give up flying, you're not ready to give up flying are you? lol

Regards

I'd just like to say that I play the game with friends, and we all stay in the same little cluster of stars all the time. We do missions, we try to impact the local politics, etc. We travel, but never "far", always returning to our little place we enjoy. We know the stations, we know where stuff is located, we LOVE it! This is how I enjoy playing the game. Perhaps it's not how YOU enjoy it, but others do! Being able to have a little hub called home for me and my friends would be absolutely huge! I adressed this in my post just above this one if you want to hear some of my ideas about it! Safe to say, none of them include me becoming a "hero" or "major impact" in the galaxy.

 

[Jaeger]

if piracy bother you don't do piracy

The very presumption causes offence.

I think you are on wrong assumption that doing something to a npc is really different to doing it to another player. It is the same thing as long as it in the game and for inside game reasoning.

Ha.. no I'm not referring to npc interaction, i'm explicitly referring to the PvP game mechanics.

It's not the same thing, not at all. Unless you are claiming that elite is a game which passes the Turing test. A claim which would be absurd, but it is interestingly analogous.

I have to go read the links which Robert put up now, to see how Sandro is currently framing his argument. His support for and design decisions re adversarial gameplay I've disagreed with since dot..

Maybe I'll see something new..

 

[LostShepherd]

Power Profiles

I would like the ability to create a number predefined power configurations that could be recorded and set i.e. for Attack mode full weapons \ half thruster for Flee mode full Engine half Sys etc etc. It would be good if I could define about five of these and bind to different keys.

Apologies if this is already an option, there are so many keys and things to do I am finding new one's everyday so this may well be out there already.

I would also like a boost option where you auto boost as soon as you have charge without having to watch and click manually, I would see this being part of the flee mode.

CMDR LostShepherd

 

[Odin Wyrmbane]

I would like the ability to create a number predefined power configurations that could be recorded and set i.e. for Attack mode full weapons \ half thruster for Flee mode full Engine half Sys etc etc. It would be good if I could define about five of these and bind to different keys.

Apologies if this is already an option, there are so many keys and things to do I am finding new one's everyday so this may well be out there already.

I would also like a boost option where you auto boost as soon as you have charge without having to watch and click manually, I would see this being part of the flee mode.

CMDR LostShepherd

This can be done very easily with a voice command, using a program like Voice Attack, if you're into that

 

[Paranoid Android]

I would also like a boost option where you auto boost as soon as you have charge without having to watch and click manually, I would see this being part of the flee mode.

That would take some of the skill out of fleeing - and as such I don't believe it is such a good idea.

 

[Chino]

I agree with the op, this game needs some of his suggested changes down the road. Right now end game for me is getting and fitting a Python to wreck everything at the Nav. Beacon since there is nothing else to do in the game. Once I get there and do it for a few weeks, I will eventually get bored never play the game again. This will hurt you 84'ers who don't want any change at all because I will not be supporting the game with micro transactions, so you will get less content in the future.

 

[Andi]

What you propose is basically "Eve with a cockpit", and no, you've not taken "some ideas from some games and others not", you made a pretty much 1:1 copy of Eve features.
How about you wait for Eve: Walkyrie? They're working on it. Stop jumping around and leave Elite alone.

 

[Skanvak]

Ha.. no I'm not referring to npc interaction, i'm explicitly referring to the PvP game mechanics.
It's not the same thing, not at all. Unless you are claiming that elite is a game which passes the Turing test. A claim which would be absurd, but it is interestingly analogous.

I have to disagree with this line of thinking. Attacking a npc or a pc is essentially the same in a game like Elite. Because Elite is a full pvp setting which is a normal setting in a sand box game. I don't know if I am expressing a taste or an objective reality. Though I understand that attacking a faceless npc is less traumatising than attacking a faceless pc which is less traumatsing than attacking a player who actually know your real face this has nothing to do with the gameplay of Elite. In elite, pilots prey on other pilots or do trading/mining (and are prey by the way). The fact that the pilots are pc or npc is irrelevant to the gameplay and the moral issue because this is an accepted premise when playing the game that other ilots can attack you. It would not be the case if all the players where the good guys and the npc were the bad guys, in this kind of no moral choice setting, preventing unwanted pvp is normal.

The problem I see is that people consider now the Theme park version of MMORPG as the alpha&omega of multi-player rules. That is not the case, in a theme park you come here only for relaxation or fun (a simulation is made to be interesting and immersive, not relaxing after the fun is in the eye of the beholder) like in Diysney land (which is a theme park) so you have activity and of course you do activity only if you want it. Pvp in those game have no consequences like child game.

So no, I won't take you argument. I stand firm that attacking a npc or a pc is the same thing in this game.

 

[starjump]

Is it? Or is it part of the core game and what a lot of us want? One person alone in a ship is the essence of Elite.

Indeed. Just like in the ARMA series you are a soldier in a big war and not the super hero to conquer the world. You do your small/big dents here and there to help the bigger picture advance, juts like with the events in Elite. And i like it that way. Thats not to say tweaks and certain features arent welcomed, but i dont like ED to be a game resembling others where you are the hero. Its much nicer to have these gems of games where you are part of a bigger picture where you do what you can.

 

[Odin Wyrmbane]

Indeed. Just like in the ARMA series you are a soldier in a big war and not the super hero to conquer the world. You do your small/big dents here and there to help the bigger picture advance, juts like with the events in Elite. And i like it that way. Thats not to say tweaks and certain features arent welcomed, but i dont like ED to be a game resembling others where you are the hero. Its much nicer to have these gems of games where you are part of a bigger picture where you do what you can.

I don't really see why adding new and interesting features that has focus on interactivity between players and more stuff to do in general (crafting, owning a "base" for your Wing, etc.) would promote this idea of you being a HERO that saves the galaxy? It's still you, on your journey to do what you enjoy doing. If you enjoy flying trade routes all day, earning a lot of money then fine, but what about the person who wants to spend his time and money creating weapons and ship equipment to sell to space stations that are out of stock? How does that make him a "Hero of the story" ? Or how about a group of friends who want a place they can call home, a little space station with a few landing pads, sort of a "bandit's outpost". It would we great for them, but wouldn't make them any more powerful or influential in the galaxy. Having content that expands beyond flying trade routes and stacking up more money than you could ever need is required and some of these suggestions might help with that.