Astronomy / Space Sun-Jupiter barycenter

Caramel Clown

Caramel Clown
It never occured to me how much Jupiter affects our Sun's motion. After reading some info on it, turned out barycenter of Sun-Jupiter system lies outside the Sun(big revelation to a person who knew bits about astronomy and orbital mechanics, but not in great details).
This pic shows drift of barycenter thanks to Jupiter and other planets in solar system.
Is this reflected in game in any way, or it's something I shouldn't be able to see while being inside the system?
Surely it would make detection of planets within Sol super easy when viewed from neighbor star systems :D
16iio3b.png
 

the100thmonkey

the100thmonkey
I think the devs only bother with barycentres when it's between two stars or two planets - I've never seen a star system with a barycentre outside the main star that wasn't seen to be in orbit with no other star.
 
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Sapyx

Sapyx
Caramel Clown said:
Is this reflected in game in any way, or it's something I shouldn't be able to see while being inside the system?
Click to expand...

The chart shows the overall barycentre of the Sun, with perturbations caused by the combinations of all the planets. Granted, Jupiter is the largest contributor, but the "Sol-Jupiter barycentre" would be a single fixed point, not wandering around like this. As you can see from 1990 and 1952, when Jupiter was on one side of the solar system and all the other planets were on the other side, Jupiter and the other planets combined can just about cancel each other out. I don't think the Jupiter-only barycentre would be outside the surface of the sun.

In the game, two objects orbiting each other can be considered one of two types: "moon-planet" (or "planet-star"), with no barycentre, is modelled whenever the computer calculates the two-body barycentre to be inside the largest object. "Co-orbiting planets" (or co-orbiting moons or stars) happen whenever the objects are close enough in mass to cause the barycentre to be outside of the largest object. Such objects are shown with a conjoining bracket on the system map and co-orbits around the barycentre when orbital lines are switched on during supercruise. I've never seen a main sequence star and a planet being co-orbital in-game; the difference in mass is just too great, even for M-class stars.
 

Ziljan

Ziljan
It is indeed reflected in the game. But not usually for planets, just for binaries/multiple star systems . I don't think they account for more than 2 body motion. Or at least simplified motion around hierarchical barycenters.

Btw, thank you very much for posting this. I was completely unaware that the center of mass of the Jupiter-Sun system could occasionally be outside of the photosphere! And I love learning new things!!! [heart][yesnod][up]
 

Caramel Clown

Caramel Clown
Yeah, I was aware about two big stars orbiting each other is a thing in game, or planets. Where it's so obvious that one would not be able to not be affected by another body.
Was wondering if more subtle changes like Sun-Jupiter or barycenters of whole solar systems are in game.
 

deathmagnet

deathmagnet
Caramel said:
FOLD
Click to expand...

I think this is partially to blame for all the "we are - we aren't responsible for global warming." There are so many factor involved. The distance from the Sun. The wobble of the Sun. The wobble of the Earth. There are so many things at play. Now believe me. I am not in the "we are not responsible" group. IMO we have major influences on our planet. I just believe there are others that are so much more powerful that can either make what we do 100 times worse....in either direction.
 
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[HJ]-RedRaven

[HJ]-RedRaven
Nice find, I didn't know that either.

Jupiter exerts massive forces at great distances, and was probably responsible for 'shepherding' the inner planets and possibly tossing other rocky planets out in the solar system's early history. Its probably responsible for preventing a planet from forming in the asteroid belt.

Its too complex to represent in-game, and players wouldn't notice it anyway. Games need a best bang for buck philosophy on most features like this.
 

DNA-Decay

DNA-Decay
The timescales of these things mean that there would be little point in simulating them in Elite Dangerous.
Its the sort of thing that you can only pick up from sifting through the data.
You can't 'see' the wobble, except in orbital lines.

In Elite, sometimes you see a planet or star orbiting "nothing" - those are orbiting a barycenter.

I can't speak for Sol as I don't have the permit.
 

ilo

ilo
nope nope, open the system map, you will see how planets are perfectly aligned in a straight line keeping their distance, respecting their vital space..

anyway, flying at several times the speed of light it is hard to notice the fluctuation on baricenters, so, don't expect to see them in game.
 

Para Handy

Para Handy
ilo said:
nope nope, open the system map, you will see how planets are perfectly aligned in a straight line keeping their distance, respecting their vital space..
Click to expand...

I presume this is just some dig at the fact that we are sill awaiting the "orrery view" in system maps rather than the linear graphical representation that is current.
 

Surfinjo

Surfinjo
A not dissimilar, proportional effect is experienced by the Earth Moon.

Another similar interaction occurs between our dear Milky Way and that big bully, muscling in on us as we speak, Andromeda.

One day Andromeda is going to swallow us all and what do the government do about it?
 
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