Supercruise Assist, Netflix & Chill

[Madrax573]

If they created a variety of meaningful on board activities to occupy players on longer trips, then there wouldn’t be so many complaints about the lack of interactivity during supercruise, so the time spent travelling would no longer be an issue. Moreover, it would also reduce uneasiness about this type of automation, because it would be needed in order to free you up for other important activities on your ship.

Many of us are hoping that 2020 brings EVA (aka Space Legs), because then on board activities other than piloting could make a lot more sense. But in any case, the game should provide the activities, rather than the game designers expecting or leaving players to find a third party diversion to occupy themselves during the longer runs.

The other alternative, as mentioned, would be to make travel more involved and more engaging. I personally wouldn’t mind if both on board activities with EVA and alternate engaging travel modes were developed.

But for all that, I still don’t understand what it is specifically about this type of optional automation that some players find to be detrimental to the game. You’ve cited the decline of other games due to automation, but it’s still unclear as to why automation would cause players to leave and create this decline. I accept what you say about the dangers of botting, though in the case of ED we already have bots that do supercruise and docking, so the new modules won’t be introducing that problem, and arguably wouldn’t even really exacerbate it.

But consider if I asked you the question “What do people hate about being in prison?”, you might answer “The loss of freedom, and the potential harm and danger posed by other inmates”. So what then do players dislike about the optional automation coming in the next update, to the degree that continued development in this vain on an optional basis would cause them to stop playing? What are players losing from this, and how does it harm their gameplay?

Just trying to see things from your perspective.

I +1 for meaning full activities. EVA I'm not fussed about at all to be perfectly honest as unless you are forced to do something by physically walking up to it and pressing a button after the first 10 mins it'll get ignored if it can be done from the pilots chair. But if you force players to have to do something by walking there they'll get accused of introducing time sinks and you'll get all the 'I want it now' crowd crying.

Like I said before I don't believe this little automation tweak was needed in ED and all it does is encourage AFK play. The reason given around long SC times etc to me is a false argument as you can line up now set speed and come back later when you are nearby. There is no need in my opinion for it to slow down for you and drop you in the vicinity.
My questions back to you would be rather than why is this automation bothering you would be why do we 'need' this automation? Especially when as you have already pointed out it automates the least active part of the game....

As for the automation bothering me and other like me. It's not just this little thing, it's the potential for it to escalate to include much more of the game, so it's a first step that will 'test the waters' and when it becomes generally accepted there will be another 'little' step (aligning to your target for example) and then when that is accepted why not just put in an autopilot.... do you see what I'm getting at?

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

I +1 for meaning full activities. EVA I'm not fussed about at all to be perfectly honest as unless you are forced to do something by physically walking up to it and pressing a button after the first 10 mins it'll get ignored if it can be done from the pilots chair. But if you force players to have to do something by walking there they'll get accused of introducing time sinks and you'll get all the 'I want it now' crowd crying.

Like I said before I don't believe this little automation tweak was needed in ED and all it does is encourage AFK play. The reason given around long SC times etc to me is a false argument as you can line up now set speed and come back later when you are nearby. There is no need in my opinion for it to slow down for you and drop you in the vicinity.
My questions back to you would be rather than why is this automation bothering you would be why do we 'need' this automation? Especially when as you have already pointed out it automates the least active part of the game....

As for the automation bothering me and other like me. It's not just this little thing, it's the potential for it to escalate to include much more of the game, so it's a first step that will 'test the waters' and when it becomes generally accepted there will be another 'little' step (aligning to your target for example) and then when that is accepted why not just put in an autopilot.... do you see what I'm getting at?

As you say, for long trips at the moment you can just point your ship at the destination and go AFK, so it’s not a big addition to have it drop you out of supercruise automatically at the right time. This is useful for if you don’t get back in time, and it can prevent collisions. From the development side it’s also fairly trivial. There’s clearly a significant portion of the player base that’s receptive to this automation, but whether that translates to a need for this feature is hard to say. More relevant to me is if players appreciate this feature and find it useful.

As it’s optional, I don’t personally see a problem with it. I can use it if I wish, or ignore it, so it doesn’t detrimentally affect my gameplay, and other player’s use of it doesn’t really change anything for me. People go AFK on long runs anyway, but in any case, there’s little to no traffic at far distant bodies, so they’re not going to encounter much human presence when the use of supercruise assist is really relevant.

All of that still leaves me in the dark about what specific problems people have with optional automation, and why they’re opposed to it to the point of eventually considering leaving the game.

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

Fair enough if you aren't using the time...

As for automation damaging games.....well I've been around for too many decades playing online games. And not one of them has gotten better or grown past a certain point of automation. All lose players and often the game ends up closing or just becoming an alt bot fest.

Heck even WoW and EQ (The grandfathers of mmo's) are releasing 'classic' and 'hardcore' servers as the players are often fed up with all the 'bells and whistles' that were added over the years.

All I'm cautioning against is that is the first step in the automation process and the slippery slope is starting to grease itself up ready for the fall.... This implementation in my mind not needed. You have a long SC, set yourself up and go afk. Work out how long you need to be away and come back simple. To have the system automatically slow you down and drop out is in my mind a total waste of dev time and panders to the automation crowd that wants to play a game by leaving it running while they do something else.

Once this comes in the next thing will be 'just make it point at my destination' 'why not it's no big deal' then it changes to 'well these are already here, why not just have autopilot?'
This is how it happens and the seeds are being sown already yet to do a big change and add such a thing would disrupt a lot of people so FDev add a 'little' thing first.... I hope I'm wrong but if it goes down that route of more and more automation.....

You haven’t factored in that the type of player who finds this sort of thing distasteful will utilise the new slots for other purposes. Much like the autopilot for landing that’s been in the game from the start,most forum members don’t seem to use it.

 

[Madrax573]

As you say, for long trips at the moment you can just point your ship at the destination and go AFK, so it’s not a big addition to have it drop you out of supercruise automatically at the right time. This is useful for if you don’t get back in time, and it can prevent collisions. From the development side it’s also fairly trivial. There’s clearly a significant portion of the player base that’s receptive to this automation, but whether that translates to a need for this feature is hard to say. More relevant to me is if players appreciate this feature and find it useful.

As it’s optional, I don’t personally see a problem with it. I can use it if I wish, or ignore it, so it doesn’t detrimentally affect my gameplay, and other player’s use of it doesn’t really change anything for me. People go AFK on long runs anyway, but in any case, there’s little to no traffic at far distant bodies, so they’re not going to encounter much human presence when the use of supercruise assist is really relevant.

All of that still leaves me in the dark about what specific problems people have with optional automation, and why they’re opposed to it to the point of eventually considering leaving the game.

For me personally I won't use it so like Cheesnbiscuits below I'm using it as a straight buff to my ships and 1-2 free class 1 internals which on the kind of ships I like to fly is a huge boost.

You haven’t factored in that the type of player who finds this sort of thing distasteful will utilise the new slots for other purposes. Much like the autopilot for landing that’s been in the game from the start,most forum members don’t seem to use it.

I'm adverse to using any automated features in ED. I fly my ships with everything turned off!
I'd love to have the flight assist computer as a class 1 internal slot that I could remove permanently for example

 

[Nadreck]

Almost all of my ships currently have a DC, and I use that time to take a break from the controls and either get up (to fetch a drink or whatever), or to play around with the camera views: to admire my ship, or get a good look at the station I'm heading into. Those who choose not to use a DC are missing out on that IMO.

The ADC will now presumably let me do the same on my way out. As for SA: not sure yet how many ships I will fit that to. I already play around with the cameras on a long supercruise, panning around the sky and so forth, but it's not worth it when I need to be alert for the 7-second throttle-down and final approach. This would give me more time while that is happening, but I won't be leaving my chair due to the interdiction risk. Might be worth it for a freighter or pasenger ship that is doing a lot of short journeys and station approaches. For small runabouts that are going to get two new size 1 slots, I might as well fit both.

 

[Cmdr Beteran]

Almost all of my ships currently have a DC, and I use that time to take a break from the controls and either get up (to fetch a drink or whatever), or to play around with the camera views: to admire my ship, or get a good look at the station I'm heading into. Those who choose not to use a DC are missing out on that IMO.

The ADC will now presumably let me do the same on my way out. As for SA: not sure yet how many ships I will fit that to. I already play around with the cameras on a long supercruise, panning around the sky and so forth, but it's not worth it when I need to be alert for the 7-second throttle-down and final approach. This would give me more time while that is happening, but I won't be leaving my chair due to the interdiction risk. Might be worth it for a freighter or pasenger ship that is doing a lot of short journeys and station approaches. For small runabouts that are going to get two new size 1 slots, I might as well fit both.

Second every word of it.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

I'm all for the new modules, but it just made me wonder whether the motivation of the developers in the case of the Supercruise Assist function was to make it more convenient for those players who like to have Netflix or some other diversion running while they wait out their travel times.

That's not a bad thing, as the need for a diversion is a function of the supercruise mechanic itself, and not the new automation module. So as long as supercruise continues to function as it does, the module is at least a mitigating factor that eases multitasking.

I do hope that it's an interim plan though, as going forward I'd much rather some meaningful in-ship activities that can be accomplished en route, or an alternate supercruise travel mode that balances increased risk, difficulty, and costs, for a reasonable reduction in travel time, which I've talked about more on the Suggestions forum.

the thing i find bizarre, is the route cause of all this SC malarkey is that its a snooze fest which requires Netflix in the first place, so rather than fixing it they have created a module to do 99% of the very little there is to do in SC for you?



carry on.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

Almost all of my ships currently have a DC, and I use that time to take a break from the controls and either get up (to fetch a drink or whatever), or to play around with the camera views: to admire my ship, or get a good look at the station I'm heading into. Those who choose not to use a DC are missing out on that IMO.

The ADC will now presumably let me do the same on my way out. As for SA: not sure yet how many ships I will fit that to. I already play around with the cameras on a long supercruise, panning around the sky and so forth, but it's not worth it when I need to be alert for the 7-second throttle-down and final approach. This would give me more time while that is happening, but I won't be leaving my chair due to the interdiction risk. Might be worth it for a freighter or pasenger ship that is doing a lot of short journeys and station approaches. For small runabouts that are going to get two new size 1 slots, I might as well fit both.

I just land my ship in the external cam

 

[Wrecked]

This is nothing about blazing your own trail. That is not a logical argument about reducing the active activity in the game. It's got nothing to do with what people actually do with the new tools. It is about dumbing down the game so you spend more time watching it than actually playing... SC itself is park of the activity in game, you have to take into account gravity wells, interdictions and yes sometimes you have long distances to travel, space is big I guess...



Those kind of things have been asked for ages. This is the first 'baby step' so once everyone is comfortable with that the next 'logical' step is the inclusion of auto-alignment. Then heck we may as well just have auto pilot.....

Very worrying IMO.

First of all, no one in this game whines more than those who resist any changes to the game that make it more accessible to new players. Time and time again, the biggest babies are the ones who start threads complaining about a feature that makes the game more accessible, but isn't a required feature in order to play the game. This behavior is simple nonsense. None of these 'care bear' features are forced upon players, so when you complain about them, it just shows everyone else how selfish you are.

Secondly, you don't know FDevs future plans. You don't know if there will be a very good reason to have an auto pilot SC in the future. For all we know, this is a feature that will be needed because the 2020 update contains space legs. There my be game play centered around getting out of your seat while in SC. I know, I know, it sounds horrible to think of, but there might actually be real game play planned around time spent in SC (other than watching Netflix of course)!

And third, FDev already have you hooked, which is great! BUT, in business, you always want more. So, it makes sense for them to look for ways to make this game appeal to more people. They know how much time people spend in the game. They know who bought it, played for 10 minutes, and then said "This is way to complicated" and put it down for good. They need to capture that audience and beyond and they obviously feel now is the time to do it and this is the plan by which they will do it. I hope it works, more revenue is good for the game and it's good for us!

 

[MickyG1982]

I have a feeling the Supercruise Assist is just the first step in a long journey towards space legs. That way you can leave the pilot chair and go about other tasks on your ship and know that your ship isn't going impact a moon at the speed of light.


Or at least that's what I am hoping.

You never came up against the autopilot system in the older elites... I actually hope this one is going to be similar...

 

[Madrax573]

You never came up against the autopilot system in the older elites... I actually hope this one is going to be similar...

Previous autopilot systems in the frontier games was a simple necessity though. You landed at the system edge, full Newtonian flight mechanisms and long distance meant that the in game time to fly to some of these stations/planets could stretch to into months. The ability to set an autopilot and speed up time was required to actually make the game playable in a comfortable time frame. ED already has that.

 

[Madrax573]

First of all, no one in this game whines more than those who resist any changes to the game that make it more accessible to new players. Time and time again, the biggest babies are the ones who start threads complaining about a feature that makes the game more accessible, but isn't a required feature in order to play the game. This behavior is simple nonsense. None of these 'care bear' features are forced upon players, so when you complain about them, it just shows everyone else how selfish you are.

I like how to take one of my early post and don't bother to read up on the rest as I clearly explain that it's not about how you play the game or how you have fun in the game but a cautionary post about how I've seen many games start of with supposedly making the game more accessible but continue past the point where to play the game you are actively encouraged not to be active in the game. At no point was there crying or acting like a baby. I leave that to people who jump to conclusions and make wild assumptions

Secondly, you don't know FDevs future plans. You don't know if there will be a very good reason to have an auto pilot SC in the future. For all we know, this is a feature that will be needed because the 2020 update contains space legs. There my be game play centered around getting out of your seat while in SC. I know, I know, it sounds horrible to think of, but there might actually be real game play planned around time spent in SC (other than watching Netflix of course)!

LOL if you can set your ship pointing to your destination already and go leave it why would that make any difference if they implemented 'space legs'. Again picking the first comment you don't like and having tanti over it as if you bothered to read my other posts I have already explained why I'm not bothered about space legs and if they implement it it needs meaningful gameplay as simply forcing people to do stuff on their legs will alienate a lot of player who would rather just press a button from the pilots chair. And if that's completely optional (like most of the arguments for such 'features' as these are) then it will a total waste of dev time as it will get used for the first ten minutes for novelty then ignored as people can do everything from the pilots seat. It's a very fine balance and not one I believe FDev shout take the risk on.
And old game Earth and Beyond had space legs as part of it's core game, space flight and everything, it was a great game. But it got caught up in the automation process and eventually people just stopped playing it as it got to bad where you weren't actually playing anymore.
More recently the X series, X-Rebirth has space legs yet it wasn't meaningful and people slammed it for being a waste of time, too samey etc. X4 foundations has it yet there isn't huge raving reviews about how it makes a spaceship flying game so much better then all the others who don't have it.
Yeah not worried about space legs.... It may actualy kill ED if it's not implemented correctly.

And third, FDev already have you hooked, which is great! BUT, in business, you always want more. So, it makes sense for them to look for ways to make this game appeal to more people. They know how much time people spend in the game. They know who bought it, played for 10 minutes, and then said "This is way to complicated" and put it down for good. They need to capture that audience and beyond and they obviously feel now is the time to do it and this is the plan by which they will do it. I hope it works, more revenue is good for the game and it's good for us!

Another LOL moment. ED is a niche game, if they start changing it for the masses then they are in for a very short ride. EvE is very niche game yet has been the most successful space MMO ever and still going strong.
Getting new customers is fine and all businesses aim to do that but doing so for the 'new age' gamers that on average only spend a few months v the more persistent gamers who stick around for years is a bad strategy for long term company health. Unless FDev have already decided that ED is on its way out then they will and should grab whatever they can regardless of how it affects their long term players.

So please if you want to have a go read all the posts and reply with well reasoned arguments rather than jumping the gun and sprouting off drivel, thank you.

 

[PaxtonNewt]

Those who first ranked up to Elite, are truly Elite.

They did it before most of the updates made things much easier for today's players. Those who did, had to put up with ganking, no C&P, no engineering, many, many bugs, exploits in the game, disconnects from servers and many other problems with game play which have now been fixed.

After the update to come, being Elite will have lost much of it's meaning.

I disagree. I'm 120 hours into the game and even with these mods it's still going to take a long time to gain elite. You sit and stare at your screen the majority of the time in this game having a few automatic options just frees up your mouse and your keyboard so you can read up about hints and tips on your phone without having to worry about docking or undocking. Time spent arriving and leaving can now be used to read up check markets etc. I welcome everything and hope elite will be my rank one day