System Security ratings do they really mean anything?

[Muzz UK]

Ok so been getting ganked... no issue with this had a couple of loses and a couple of victories... I move on. I want fellow CMDR opinions.

Does anyone feel there is any difference between system security ratings? Are we really protected and safe as players against crimes and PvP in a high or medium security star system? Sure we've got ATR and wanted players do have a hard time occasionally BUT this still doesn't protect against a player who wants to instantly cause trouble in a clean ship.

I'd like to see HIGH and MEDIUM security systems be just that.

Idea is... if you're interdicted there and you hold off the interdiction or you've recently been PvP'd then police response should be almost instant. I would also say players holding high value cargo should trigger better NPC protection. I mean common sense dictates in a system with a lot of trade routes a Type 9 for example loaded with cargo would instantly catch the eye of the police as a pirate target.

Same thing if you're flying around a rich system in a loaded battle ship aren't local forces going to want to keep an eye on you rather than some little Sidewinder or Type 6?

At the moment I feel NPC security is very meh.

Obviously low secuity, lawless or anarchy etc are what they are!

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

In my observations, low, medium and high security, offer useless, sometimes dangerously incompetent security response.
Anarchy offers none, and is therefore, safer. Lol

 

[HAMM3R]

In my experience, no. It's a wild, wild west everywhere regardless of security rating.

I think hi-sec systems should have zero NPC pirates and if a player starts shooting/pirating in them, they should be shot down within seconds by the system security forces and the rebuy cost should be the full price of the ship among other punishments. And as the security rating goes down, the risk of getting into trouble should gradually increase and it would take longer for the system security to reach you. Maybe in low-sec there'd be a chance of them not showing up at all and in anarchy you'd be totally on your own.

 

[WinterKing2112]

In my experience, no. It's a wild, wild west everywhere regardless of security rating.

I think hi-sec systems should have zero NPC pirates and if a player starts shooting/pirating in them, they should be shot down within seconds by the system security forces and the rebuy cost should be the full price of the ship among other punishments. And as the security rating goes down, the risk of getting into trouble should gradually increase and it would take longer for the system security to reach you. Maybe in low-sec there'd be a chance of them not showing up at all and in anarchy you'd be totally on your own.

Mostly agree with you, tho there should occasionally be some foolhardy pirates who try it on in high security systems, I mean there's plenty of idiots IRL who get up to similar shenanigans despite being on camera, with a cop shop just round the corner! Or try robbing a donut shop......

 

[Vardaugas]

From my experience with hacking installations, security response in high security systems is near instantaneous. Medium takes a while longer and I've never seen them in low security, they usually take far too long there to matter when it comes to hacking.

 

[HAMM3R]

Mostly agree with you, tho there should occasionally be some foolhardy pirates who try it on in high security systems, I mean there's plenty of idiots IRL who get up to similar shenanigans despite being on camera, with a cop shop just round the corner! Or try robbing a donut shop......

I suppose those roles could be left for the players. I'm sure there'd still be plenty trying their luck in high security

But in general I think venturing into higher security systems should be equally dangerous for the criminally inclinded as it is for law abiding traders and what not to venture into the low security/anarchy systems. Obviously there should also be some kind of "high risk=high reward" mechanic for both sides.

 

[Muzz UK]

Here's my ideas - They allow protection for players from player ganking and pirates in HIGH and MEDIUM security.

HIGH SECURITY - Ships with passengers or cargo should have more protection. NPC and local forces spawn and respond straight away to any crime involving ship to shop fire, killing or ship to ship ramming damage. When player to player interdiction occurs if the player does not submit and can hold of interdiction for a certain amount of time then security ships including one Conda and wing of 2/3 Vipers or Cobras spawn as the interdiction drops into normal space. Players who are WANTED are more likely to be scanned or interdicted by security forces. If you do not hold off the interdiction or you are in a combat ship then there is a slight cool down before spawning.

MEDIUM SECURITY - Same as the above but weaker NPC ships no Conda or large ship just wing of smaller.

LOW SECURITY/LAWLESS/ANARCHY - How it currently stands


This way haulers, explorers, miners and traders are afforded more protection from other players but the risks of flying in lower or no security systems make more sense.

As a closing one here engineers seem a hot zone for gankers surely someone who is an engineer working on high tech projects would have better protection?

 

[Vasious]

From my experience with hacking installations, security response in high security systems is near instantaneous. Medium takes a while longer and I've never seen them in low security, they usually take far too long there to matter when it comes to hacking.

This matches my experiences too.

There is definely a difference in response times, but cannot comment on ability and numbers of secuirty

 

[dxm55]

ATR is pretty weakass at the moment.

FD needs to up it to SWAT team levels, where the higher the notoriety rating or the bounty on the Wanted CMDR's head, the more extreme the ATR response should be.

Where are the 3 wings of 3 x Anaconda/Cutter/Corvettes, all Elite level, fully engineered, and guardian tech armed, dropping in on the Wanted ganker? And all of them armed with Reverb Cascade torps and missiles engineered with both FSD reset and Drag munitions.

Sure to give gankers a good time!

 

[Muzz UK]

I think a lot of this could easily be fixed with spawn time mechanics.

I'm grade 5 engineered across the board but I imagine a non boosted commander would melt in seconds and by the time police spawn the pirate/murderer is gone.

High security - Instant spawn of NPC ships... give the human commander a fighting chance!

 

[babelfisch]

First, I think the differences in security ratings need to be more drastically.
However, there certainly is a difference. I do believe response time and force doesn't just rely on system rating but also on your position. If you are getting attacked a few ls from a station it will be almost instantly. If you are in the middle of your trip to Hutton Orbital it will take some time.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Ok so been getting ganked... no issue with this had a couple of loses and a couple of victories... I move on. I want fellow CMDR opinions.

Does anyone feel there is any difference between system security ratings? Are we really protected and safe as players against crimes and PvP in a high or medium security star system? Sure we've got ATR and wanted players do have a hard time occasionally BUT this still doesn't protect against a player who wants to instantly cause trouble in a clean ship.

I'd like to see HIGH and MEDIUM security systems be just that.

Idea is... if you're interdicted there and you hold off the interdiction or you've recently been PvP'd then police response should be almost instant. I would also say players holding high value cargo should trigger better NPC protection. I mean common sense dictates in a system with a lot of trade routes a Type 9 for example loaded with cargo would instantly catch the eye of the police as a pirate target.

Same thing if you're flying around a rich system in a loaded battle ship aren't local forces going to want to keep an eye on you rather than some little Sidewinder or Type 6?

At the moment I feel NPC security is very meh.

Obviously low secuity, lawless or anarchy etc are what they are!

ED security is reactive not proactive in the main. If you try to rely on it you will die. ATR is not an anti gank device at all- its a BGS cap.

The differences between them are in response times and ATR thresholds. General response to killing a civ is 3:00 low, 1:30 medium and 30s high. Killing security: Low response 1:30, med 0:40 and high 0:10.

Sec ships are generally better equipped the higher the sec level. So low has panda car Eagles while above that you get Vultures and Mk 4 Vipers.

Generally ATR will arrive after 20 ish kills in low, 8 in med and hardly any in high sec. Once they drop in, you can reset them by leaving the system- also note if you kill again once the ATR have notified you of their arrival, the next ATR spawn will be instant.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

PvE, the Security ratings mean something. It's mildly degraded, because System Authority still follows the heavily obsolete V1.0 Meta... But it still works, within some limitations.
Plus, local Reputation acts as a Factor when it comes to arrival times, occasionally non-Authority Bounty Hunter NPCs can also drop in to assist.

Against Players though? There are no Security ratings. Against heavily Engineered Ships or even Wings, every System is "Lawless Anarchy". regardless of what the System Map states.
By the time something like ATR shows up, everything will be way too late in most cases.
ATR should be patrolling such Systems and pull out Wanted SC traffic all the time. Deny, Disrupt, Destroy. Alas, that was never the intention.

Overrun "High Security" Systems like the failed-state Anarchy of the Founders World are excellent showcasing places for the total failure of C&P and i.e. System Security ratings.
Deciat, indicated as a "Medium Security" System, has a true Security rating of "non-existent".

The near-total SC inactivity vs. Notorious/Wanted Players is one of the key design failures. You can hug SuperCruise or re-enter it with Millions in local Bounties on your head without having multiple Wings of System Authority or ATR chasing you there. "Deny/Disrupt" is missing entirely from the required mix - alas again, intentionally so.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

For PvE, I wouldn't know. Report crimes is always off and the only difference I ever see is when I complete a political assassination in an anarchy system and the system authorities just watch while eating their popcorn. For smuggling or completing missions, all high/med/low systems seem the same. Anarchy is the only one that feels different since I never need to pop a heat sink to deal with a scan when docking. Yes, I would like high security systems to be more difficult to operate in.

In open against any players trying to blow my ship up- even if there was a response my ship would either be destroyed or I'd have escaped long before any security arrived to help. If they did arrive in time, would security ships (non ATR) even cause a dedicated PvP player to pause? Personally I doubt it.

I say just give Shinrarta Dezhra to an anarchy faction (new home for Archon Delaine?) so we all know where we are with things.

 

[Muzz UK]

PvE, the Security ratings mean something. It's mildly degraded, because System Authority still follows the heavily obsolete V1.0 Meta... But it still works, within some limitations.
Plus, local Reputation acts as a Factor when it comes to arrival times, occasionally non-Authority Bounty Hunter NPCs can also drop in to assist.

Against Players though? There are no Security ratings. Against heavily Engineered Ships or even Wings, every System is "Lawless Anarchy". regardless of what the System Map states.
By the time something like ATR shows up, everything will be way too late in most cases.
ATR should be patrolling such Systems and pull out Wanted SC traffic all the time. Deny, Disrupt, Destroy. Alas, that was never the intention.

Overrun "High Security" Systems like the failed-state Anarchy of the Founders World are excellent showcasing places for the total failure of C&P and i.e. System Security ratings.
Deciat, indicated as a "Medium Security" System, has a true Security rating of "non-existent".

The near-total SC inactivity vs. Notorious/Wanted Players is one of the key design failures. You can hug SuperCruise or re-enter it with Millions in local Bounties on your head without having multiple Wings of System Authority or ATR chasing you there. "Deny/Disrupt" is missing entirely from the required mix - alas again, intentionally so.

Interesting point yeah the whole crime and security system is very setup for PvE style of player but not PvP.

Completely agreed there's a punishment of sorts but nothing to prevent you being blown up. Surely being blown up as quickly in a lawless system makes no sense if its the same as high or medium security.

 

[dm06]

I think that no C&P is able to protect ship against destruction. Shields and boost and hrp/mrp do it better.

 

[Arkadi]

once Rubbernuke posted in the powerplay forums this:

Anarchy = no response (in most cases)
Low sec = sec response 5 minutes (approx)
Medium sec = sec response 2 minutes (approx)
High sec = sec response 30 seconds (approx)
High sec + lockdown = sec response < 10 seconds (approx)

Lockdowns tend to make security spawn more fun things like Corvettes too.
More often than not you will have to sit and wait to get a security response.

This assumes you smack a civilian ship. If you target security directly response is faster once the interdicted party has been nullified.

I found this to be pretty accurate. I am not sure if this is still true since the last Beyond update end of year. Didn't really do much that made me worry about security since.

 

[Rubbernuke]

once Rubbernuke posted in the powerplay forums this:



I found this to be pretty accurate. I am not sure if this is still true since the last Beyond update end of year. Didn't really do much that made me worry about security since.

Its not accurate any more- I posted my own experiences of the the system a few above. Generally the response times are faster in 3.3, and that each kill gains you (at notoriety 10) 2,9 million per NPC and much, much higher for players.

For example Lockdown (from my tests in 3.3) does very little. In the old days it sent the sec level through the roof- now its quite the opposite. Bug? I don't know but its not much of an obstacle to a lawbreaker.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

No, not at all.

It has some bearing on BGS stuff, but for any interactions it makes no difference. I think it may have some bearing on how quickly NPC’s respond, but since I make a habit of not bothering other players and will not submit to interdictions, I can’t verify this.

It would be nice if system states and power control actually meant something, but they don’t.

 

[Muzz UK]

once Rubbernuke posted in the powerplay forums this:



I found this to be pretty accurate. I am not sure if this is still true since the last Beyond update end of year. Didn't really do much that made me worry about security since.

Reinforces that the crime system is more PvE focused