Hardware & Technical T.flight Hotas X vs. T.16000m joystick (Review'ish kinda post)

[CMDR M Kozak]

Hello every one!

I have been trying out both of the budget sticks from Thrustmaster, and just wanted to share my findings. First there will be a short talk about both sticks and then a verdict.

T.Flight hotas X
This is a good looking setup at a very nice price. The immersion of using a hotas setup cant compare to using anything else, and the hotas X is no different. Flying around using the throttle feels very natural and you get the hang of it quite fast. Landings and takeoffs are easy, and if you just need to fly around and avoiding combat - this stick is wonderful. Combat with your sidewider equipped with fixed pulselasers are very hard with this setup. There is a huge deadzone in the center, and this means you have to move it alot to make it react around the center. This also means that small course adjustments around the center of the stick is impossible.

Flying the "Sidewinder faceoff" combat scenario was excruciating hard. After some practise I would still loose the fight 60+% of the time. The stick isnt precise enough to hit with fixed pulselasers. Gimbaled weapons and missiles are a great help to this setup.

Pros:
Throttle
Fingertip buttons

Cons:
Huge center deadzone
Not precise enough


T.16000m
This stick is "just" a stick with no separate throttle, however its precision is by far exceeding anything I have ever tried. As it states in the small manual there is NO center deadzone on this stick. This is also felt the moment you try using it. It reacts promptly and precisely to every move you make. This is super important in combat, and especially with fixed weapons.

The "Sidewinder faceoff" scenario turns into a cakewalk with this stick, and I beat the scenario each and every time - usually within 2-3 minutes. With this stick tracking and hitting at great distances become trivial.

Pros.
NO deadzone
Super precise

Cons
No separate throttle
Lots of buttons but not at your fingertips.

Verdict
Making the choise between the two, should be based on what you expect you will be doing ingame. If you are going to stay as far away from combat as you can, then precision isnt that important. And the hotas X throttle is really nice. But if you expect to be fighting alot, then precision is extremely important. They are evenly priced, but I belive you get a better combat stick in the T.16000. Hotas X is great as well for its extra level of immersion, but you will get killed alot using it. At least untill you can get gimbaled weapons installed. Then your precision starts to mean less and less.

I have returned the hotas X and are just using the T.16000 now.

I hope this can be a help for anyone trying to decide on the either of the two budget sticks from Thrustmaster.

-Morten

 

[Ozric]

Nice review, have some rep

I have not tried the HOTAS but I do use the T16000M. At the moment I have not really done that much combat as I have been testing out other areas of the game, but as you say the precision in control using the stick is very good indeed. Especially if when you exit a station your hyperspace target is behind you, swooping out and then hugging the station as you fly around it is very easy. It's also very good for avoiding the suicidal NPC pilots in the entrance to the docking port, even in a Lakon Type-6.

I have the stick to the right hand side of my keyboard, I use the POV hat on the stick as a free look and I use the keyboard for everything else, thrusters, throttle control, targetting etc. The only other thing I use on the stick is I have a button next to the POV hat set up to be able to scroll through your target's sub systems. That combined with Voice Attack is good enough for me

For 30 squids, I'd say it's a bargain. Although they wouldn't take cuttlefish

 

[CatInSpace]

Another happy T16000M user here as well. I started out with just this stick, but later added a separate CH Pro Throttle. Though expensive, it will give you a full and great HOTAS setup, including a handy full-axis mini 'thumb joystick' on the throttle that will let you handle vertical and sideways thrust.

Set the T16000M's twist axis to control yaw, and you can pretty much do everything you'd like without having to use the keyboard.

 

[Ekar]

I've had the T16000 for awhile now but I never realised how good it was until I started playing Elite. I agree that half of the buttons are inaccessible (to do with catering to both right and left handed users) but most of my commands have been offloaded to a Roccat grid so it's not really a problem anymore.

I also recommend people to check out GlovePie (or something like it), as you can get extra functionality out of the joystick- for eg, I went looking for a solution to be able to use one of the joystick buttons as a modifier key, so when I hold down that button I could use the hat switch to divert power to the ships different systems (the hat switch controls the ships various thrusters otherwise). That is all working great with GlovePie and the T16000.

 

[ssora83]

I use the hotas x and have no problems during combat (unless majorly outnumbered. I use fixed weapons only, never the gimballed versions. I don't notice this huge deadzone you're talking about either, in fact, I increased my roll dead zone in game. I guess this is down to personal preference. Personally I prefer the hotas x.

 

[Kernel Kwatz!]

Great review and worthy of some rep.

you have made me begin to reconsider my forthcoming Hotas X purchase. However, I've spent a butt load money on this game already and if I want a hotas experience there is only one option. Whatever about deadzones and precision it surely has to be better than my mouse and keyboard.

 

[Herik]

I agree with you ssora83; I have not had much problem with the Hotas x. The 'deadzone' we speak of can be closed to the degree you want on the bottom of the controller handle; I tighten mine up all the way, and make some slight adjustments on the options screen.

Your suggestion in game of increasing the 'roll zone' (specifically) may be a good one; and I'll try that and see what its like.

In all pre game scenarios my Hotas x as its configured now; is fairly accurate (but not perfect).

Ive' had my Hotas for a few months; and remember how it behaved with the earlier 'premium beta' release of the game and 'tweaked' scenarios. At that time with the adjustment on the controller tightened completely, and all deadzone adjustments in the scenarios options set to the extreme left; my Hotas x was dead on in any conflict.

I think some further 'tweaking' of the scenarios since PB has readjusted the default dead zone curve the stick has to work with. I don't think I should of had to readjust my and settings...

 

[Kozmyk]

Eh! Hombre!! HOTAS X Deadzone? I ain't go no steenking deadzone ...

My old HOTAS X is years old and works just fine.
In flight sims like War Thunder I prefer a bit of nonlinearity but in Elite Dangerous the sensitivities suit me straight out of the box, so to speak.

I have toyed with the idea of getting a Hall Sensor equipped stick for the right hand and maybe keeping the HOTAS X quadrant in play.
But that's just an idea for an experiment.

I've long thought that I might get another HOTAS X just in case this one breaks and they stop making them.

 

[hydraSlav]

NO center deadzone on this stick.

So does it "react" just to you holding it?

To me "no dead zone" sounds like a bad thing, as simply moving the thumb around to reach for the buttons will introduce some "jitter" into the flight.

 

[Ozric]

So does it "react" just to you holding it?

To me "no dead zone" sounds like a bad thing, as simply moving the thumb around to reach for the buttons will introduce some "jitter" into the flight.

It's very sensitive but you can increase the deadzone in the options. Better to be able to increase it to how you like, than not be able to reduce it.

I also recommend people to check out GlovePie (or something like it), as you can get extra functionality out of the joystick- for eg, I went looking for a solution to be able to use one of the joystick buttons as a modifier key, so when I hold down that button I could use the hat switch to divert power to the ships different systems (the hat switch controls the ships various thrusters otherwise). That is all working great with GlovePie and the T16000.

You should be able to do it using the in game control system. When you choose a keypress for a command it remembers combinations. For example I have W set to upwards thruster, for Forwards Thruster when selecting the key I held down Alt and pressed W, so Alt becomes my modifier key. Can't remember the post but a dev said this would work with joysticks aswell

 

[Sanpaku]

Another happy T16000 user here.

In practice, there's no real need for analog throttle for sub-luminal travel. 0% and 50% buttons, with overrides for forward and reverse thrust are all that's required. 6 degree-of-freedom flight controls can be easily accommodated by 10 buttons (6 directional thrusts, 0%, 50%; with throttle + & - for supercruise). I use the keyboard numpad, though a left-handed keyboard or detachable numpad would be nice for responding to text comms.

 

[xDreadnoughtx]

Using the T Flight Hotas X. No problems with accuracy or dead zones.

As a previous poster said - tighten it up.

 

[Philip Coutts]

Joysticks are a very personnel thing. I use the T-Flight but have it quite loose, it's just how I prefer to fly. I suspect if you buy either of these sticks and put in a bit of practice you will be perfectly happy with them.

 

[Jigsaw]

Just a little info regarding the Thrustmaster Hotas X.

I have one for about 4 years now. While it's good value for the money, considering how expensive other Hotas products are, the longevity isn't very good. It didn't take long (maybe 2 years of heavy use) before the coolie hat startet acting up. By now the coolie hat is basically unusable and doesn't respond to any inputs.

Shortly after the coolie hat started showing problems the twist grip started to develop involuntary inputs, causing rudder movement when I didn't twist the grip at all. In the end it became so bad that I had to fix the twist grip in place and had to use the rocker on the throttle for rudder inputs instead.

That's why I currently play ED with the mouse and keyboard, because there aren't enough working controls left on the Hotas X to play it properly. It's still good enough for flight simming, but ED has more freedom of movement. 40 bucks for two years of proper use aren't that bad, but if you want something more solid you gotta look somewhere else.

 

[Raz0rking]

I got a logitech X3D before i got a Flightmaster X. I was disapointed of the flightmaster...dont know, but i prefer the logitech.

 

[SzaryWilk]

I use the T.flight Hotas X and it meet my expectations.
Frontier gave us a very good maping for this joystic.

 

[DeepFried]

I don't have the deadzone problem you mention with the hotas x, in fact I have no problems with it. However I have read someone else having a calibration problem on the throttle, so perhaps this is a manufacturing quality issue, or perhaps its just about software calibration, couldn't say, haven't touched the software myself.

 

[CMDR M Kozak]

I don't have the deadzone problem you mention with the hotas x, in fact I have no problems with it. However I have read someone else having a calibration problem on the throttle, so perhaps this is a manufacturing quality issue, or perhaps its just about software calibration, couldn't say, haven't touched the software myself.

On my Stick I ended up turning the bottom "screw" to maximum tight setting, and still the precision around the center was very bad. I tried all sorts of settings, but could not feel significant difference in sensitivity. But sensitivity only played a role udring combat.

All reviews are subjective in nature, but my combat effectiveness increased significantly with the t.16000m.

 

[Gingerwig]

I've just ordered myself a pair of T16000ms for a duel stick setup. Heard great things about it from people using it in SC and flight sims and it's seems the natural progression from the xbox controller I use now which also uses two sticks.