T Tauri stars with accretion discs - Game bug?

Radius of that disk (in real photo, star is HL Tauri) is ~90 AUs or, in more familiar units 45000 LSs; that's three times the distance from Sun to Neptune, so... nope. I believe that -if we could remove the disk- star should appear as tiny bright dot, as you've already suspected :)

I'd guess that protoplanetary disks in ED are either non-existent or perhaps miniaturized. Probably due to some engine limitation.

So, showing a ring less that half the stars width away is quite correctly firing off my space bullpoo detector quite correctly :)
 
So, showing a ring less that half the stars width away is quite correctly firing off my space bullpoo detector quite correctly :)


T Tauri stars are powered by gravitational collapse. In other words, they are still growing. So the winds they generate are actually generated by infalling material. Hence, there would definitely be matter very close to the star, some of it getting blown away, some it flowing up any existing polar jets, and some of it falling into the star to increase its mass.

Stable orbits that close to the T Tauri though? Honestly, Idk. I kind of doubt it given the erratic nature of younger stars, but then again as xondk pointed out above, these don't have to be stable structures. They could be extremely temporary, and about to be absorbed or ejected into a higher orbit.

This would be example of the dynamic flow of material close to the proto star:

yso_st.jpg



- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Does it show up that way in game? has anyone been in one?

Have never personally visited a proto star with a disk. But after this thread, I plan on checking in on HL Tauri asap. ;) According to radio astronomy there should be planets or planetesimals in the gaps in the disk there.
 
Last edited:
Just for reference, this is a picture of what I would expect a young proto star to look like up close (eg not an asteroid field, but a bunch of swirling gas and dust... maybe when we get atmospheres the Cobra engine will be able to handle this?):

lightechoesg.jpg
 
Last edited:
T Tauri stars are powered by gravitational collapse. In other words, they are still growing. So the winds they generate are actually generated by infalling material. Hence, there would definitely be matter very close to the star, some of it getting blown away, some it flowing up any existing polar jets, and some of it falling into the star to increase its mass.

Stable orbits that close to the T Tauri though? Honestly, Idk. I kind of doubt it given the erratic nature of younger stars, but then again as xondk pointed out above, these don't have to be stable structures. They could be extremely temporary, and about to be absorbed or ejected into a higher orbit.

This would be example of the dynamic flow of material close to the proto star:

http://www.eso.org/~mvandena/yso_st.jpg
Yup, we just have to remember that astronomy has an entirely different time scale simply from sizes of the whole thing, takes years upon years, but could be cool if Frontier did some work to make that animation happen, even if very slowly.
 
Ziljan:
Very nice image. But a ring cannot be that thick. Because the particles on the upper left side have to orbit to the lower right side. Then they would collide with particles orbiting in the center of the ring. Gravitation between particles of the cloud would also add to the flattening of the ring.

I guess FD has modeled the rings quite accurately.

o7
 
The rings around T Tauri stars are not "protoplanetary discs", though I guess it's OK to think of them as such for head-canon purposes. But they're ordinary, run-of-the-mill planetary rings, that happen to be orbiting a star rather than a planet.

You only ever find ringed stars (any star type can have a ring, not just T Tauris) in planetary-type orbits - you never find rings around the primary star in a system, or a binary star orbiting a barycentre. The "shadow" is wrong only if you consider the primary lightsource to be the ringed star, rather than the much larger primary star the ringed star is orbiting. In other words, the ring shadows for ringed stars are calculated identically to those around non-light-emitting planets.
 
The rings around T Tauri stars are not "protoplanetary discs", though I guess it's OK to think of them as such for head-canon purposes. But they're ordinary, run-of-the-mill planetary rings, that happen to be orbiting a star rather than a planet.

You only ever find ringed stars (any star type can have a ring, not just T Tauris) in planetary-type orbits - you never find rings around the primary star in a system, or a binary star orbiting a barycentre. The "shadow" is wrong only if you consider the primary lightsource to be the ringed star, rather than the much larger primary star the ringed star is orbiting. In other words, the ring shadows for ringed stars are calculated identically to those around non-light-emitting planets.

I did once find an astroid ring with no astroids in it. It might have been one around a brown dwarf
 
Ziljan:
Very nice image. But a ring cannot be that thick. Because the particles on the upper left side have to orbit to the lower right side. Then they would collide with particles orbiting in the center of the ring. Gravitation between particles of the cloud would also add to the flattening of the ring.

I guess FD has modeled the rings quite accurately.

o7

Details are important. The pic above is from an early stage in the collapse before any real structures have formed in the disk, which is demonstrated by the inner disk which is still dark and cold. Let's remember, the proto star begins its life as a roughly spherical blob of cold gas and dust. These particles are quite small! They do collide as the cloud collapses and flattens, but not very often because dust is very small and the "disk" is still mostly empty space. The collisions that do occur during the collapse are what generate the heat, slow the collapse, and increase the randomness of orbital motion of gas and dust in the disk. Eg, they do not lead immediately to nice flat ring structures ;)

Also, the individual particles don't orbit is neat circles or ellipses at geometric angles to the plane. They interact gravitationally with dense pockets within the cloud and their vertical components are (initially) wild and unpredictable. Going in and out and up down.

If ring structures did evolve (as in the case of HL Tauri) they would not be quite so clean and orderly as ones that form tidal forces and are held in place by moons, nor quite so 2 dimensional. The disk itself would likely be a fuzzy cloud, would likely be warped or even have spiral structure from collisions with material falling perpendicular to the plane and density waves from protoplanets coalescing within the disk. Depending on the mass and materials available, there could also be a cloud of dust and icy debris that would form around the central disk obscuring it and reddening it.

In short, no two"disks" would look exactly the same. They would vary in size, shape, color, and distribution depending on the mass, history, and current evolutionary stage of the collapse.

The disk structure represents the final and unstable stage that will eventually form planets moons and asteroid belts. But to be clear, even at its most organized stage of evolution, the protoplanetary disk would be a diffuse 3-dimensional object without any sharp boundaries.

The general structure of "midlife" of a "disk" of a sun-like star would look something like this:

fig2.png


Not a two dimensional object, but a flaring mostly gaseous debris field surrounded by thick layers of ice and dust.

A more artistic in game rendering of the above stage of evolution might look like this:

ppdisk_caption.jpg


For scale:

disk.png
 
Last edited:
Is the density going to enough that if you'd just dropped into the system would see anything other than a hint of haziness or would you end up needing to supercruise 100+kls out of the plane to really see it properly?
 
Is the density going to enough that if you'd just dropped into the system would see anything other than a hint of haziness or would you end up needing to supercruise 100+kls out of the plane to really see it properly?

If you're above the plane then the disk itself would be visible, though most of the distant stars might be dimmed significantly. However if you are flying around in the disk then it would be like being inside a nebula. The type of nebula that the disk would resemble would depend on where you are inside/outside the disk of cloud and dust.

The cold outer edges that don't get direct illumination will be darker, like the coal sack, blocking light from the inside star. If you flew inside the deepest parts of this region, then it would blot out the light from most of the stars and perhaps even the main star itself.

The thinner middle sections would be like a reflection nebula (eg Pleiades), these would be illuminated from within from light bouncing around within the gas and dust. The star would look quite hazy and spectacular from this range, somewhat dimmed by the gas and dust directly between you and the star (kind of like a ring system but minus the bigger rocks).

The hot inner sections closer to the sun might be radiating like an emission nebula (eg Orion). If there was a strong magnetic field, then the view would be astounding. Similar to what you might expect at a black hole with an accretion disk, if the black hole wasn't black! :)
 
Back
Top Bottom