Ships T9 vs Cutter: trading ship suggestions?

Charonys

Charonys
Hi, I want to build a dedicated trading ship I can swap to after mining because I don't want to use my mining ship to jump around.

I think, either the T9 or the Cutter would be a great choice because they can easily provide 512 cargo (that's all I need).

However, I'm still relatively new to the game and I'm not sure what the best build would be. I've been playing around a bit, but I wasn't happy with the result, thus I'm looking for advice. My main issue is figuring out how much shields/hull/resistances I will need in case I get interdicted in open. I'm also not sure how I should engineer each module.

What I have so far:
  • 2x 8E cargo
  • 5H Guardian FSD
  • FSD (increased range, mass manager)
  • D-rated Life/Sensors (lightweight)
I decided to go for Bi-Weave because it feels like the faster recharge might be beneficial when trying to jump away from an attacker, but I'm actually not sure if that would even make a difference - maybe the extra tank from regular shields is more efficient? I also think I don't need any weapons and I could get away with shield boosters only instead of trying to set up defensive capabilities?

As for general tank, not sure what to do. Are shield cell banks worth their money? Also, is there a particular "ratio" or something regarding hull vs module reinforcement?

I'm also trying to aim for a jump range ~30 ly or higher, but as more modules are added, this becomes difficult to achieve, though engineering might help with that. The question is, should I try to get D-rated (core) modules for the most part and squeeze lightweighted mods in wherever I can or would it make more sense to reinforce/shield (core) modules in order to increase their overall durability?

I'd be happy to get some example builds and also don't mind in-depth explanations or links to resources that might help improve my overall understanding.
 

GroG79

G
in favour of cutter in this case because you prefer:
  • higher jump range
  • want to escape interdiction (cutter can only be masslocked by cutter and is faster)
  • In case of T9 get a SCB
Other considerations: Do you have the money to outfit a cutter? Traders don't fight back.. Just escape. Get a-rated over biweave. Cause it gives you some extra shield time; you are not waiting with high waking. And point defence for experienced gankers vs from bombs...
 

Fish172

Fish172
Mining uses a few hard points so I would pick the Cutter. It also makes a superb armed trading ship when not mining. I agree however the Cutter is far far more expensive to kit out than a T9. (Also from personal experience I may add) if you fit good shields the Cutter can be just used as a battering ram. It is a survival ship.
As for lightweight modules, it makes very little difference ten or twenty tons either way with a Cutter. It already weighs about the same as a small moon. I would make modules either extremely efficient or powerful. Bare in mind also the Cutter is a power hungry monster so do not compromise on the reactor.
 

Charonys

Charonys
Rick6549 said:
Id say pick the beluga
Click to expand...

I have considered other ships, but I'm mining in a Cutter right now and I'm filling up the entire 512 tons of cargo - I don't think I want to cut down on the mining because it allows me to reduce trips to a minimum.

As for other suggestions so far: thank you very much! I will probably return with more question during the next few days.

Since the question came up: money is not an issue, I've been doing map runs this weekend and I can easily afford another fully fitted Cutter just for hauling.
 

TiberiusDuval

T
Cutter, though it is expensive. You can outfit it enough to be a formidably shielded and have defensive weaponry, and still have space for cargo.
 

Kissamies

Kissamies
Charonys said:
I decided to go for Bi-Weave because it feels like the faster recharge might be beneficial when trying to jump away from an attacker, but I'm actually not sure if that would even make a difference - maybe the extra tank from regular shields is more efficient?
Click to expand...
In this scenario you want your shields to hold until you wake out. Tanky shields are more important than recharge and recharge doesn't even work while you are being shot at. Ideally you want Prismatics, with perhaps even some Guardian boosters on those otherwise worthless smallest optional slots, but if you have no access to those, use regular shields.
 

Charonys

Charonys
Ok, I've been trying to build something, not sure if it makes sense though - could you guys look over it and give me some feedback please?

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badibeat

badibeat
With the Imperial Cutter you can approach and enter stations that much faster, same for exiting and getting out of mass lock range for super cruise. I also have the impression that super cruise handling is better in the Cutter.
I got fewer interdictions from NPC Pirates in a mining Imperial Cutter full of Painite than I got in the Type-9 Heavy, maybe there is some smartness built into them. But that may be my subjective observation or chance (small sample base). I sport an array of weapons in the extra hardpoints of my Cutter which were absent in the T9 and I also gained many Federal and Imperial ranks to get the big ships and one combat rank during the grind.
What is proven is that I can easily zap the NPC pirates I encounter with my Cutter and can also run away without breaking a sweat, both not so easy to do in a Type-9.
But I miss the T9's bridge, and while the T9 feels big the Cutter just feels too wide (especially to park comfortably). But the Cutter is surprisingly nimble to scoop up stuff.
 
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badibeat

badibeat
My comment on your build:
If you want to reduce weight, use 4D instead of 5D Guardian Shield Reinforcement Packages. You don't loose much shield strenght, they have a bit better shield/power ratio and much better shield/weigth ratio.
Use that weight for longer range Sensors (A Rated or long range engineered), to spot pirates from farther away etc. Good sensors are helpful for evasion and also to spot materials after combat. Also upgrade one Module Reinforcement Package to 5D instead.
Since you have such high base shield strength, I'd also recommend to replace a couple of Heavy Duty Shield Boosters with Resistant Augmented ones. This will improve your poor thermal resistance and is only worse against the raw 60% of Plasma damage and all kinds of collisions, but better against almost anything else, lighter and shields regenerate faster (still not that fast if you use Prismatic though). Consider low draw instead of high cap (see below about power).
Make sure to adjust the power priorities, they are currently all at 1. If your power supply just momentarily drops below 98% for some reason you will loose your shields completely.
You will also be dead in the water and blind, but the respective functions recover within a couple of seconds if power is back up.
Also be aware that Guardian Shield Reinforcement Packages currently can't be switched off and have fixed power priority 1 due to a bug. As a result you can not avoid to loose the shield completely if the power drops to 20% for 5s in case the power plant gets reduced to 0% health in your suggested build. Make sure to have the shield generator and the shield reinforcement packages in a power priority that uses less than 40% of available power in total (the temporary limit in case of a power plant malfunction).
Without a heat sink I'd maybe recommend carrying an AFMU to repair module damage after overheating.
For overall defence I'd go for higher power output and use all those hardpoints for some nice defensive weaponry. Turrets and gimbals both benefit from longer range sensors too, and you can keep your shield generator plus Guardian Shield Reinforcement Packages powered at 20%. Maybe replace a shield booster with chaff or a heat sink.
 
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badibeat

badibeat
Charonys said:
I'd be happy to get some example builds and also don't mind in-depth explanations or links to resources that might help improve my overall understanding.
Click to expand...
This is a variant of my mining Cutter fitted for trading, based on bi-weave and resists, more like your original suggestion:

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It jumps 32ly fully laden and shields recover in 2:27 (including the 16s timeout) and recharge in 2:44, but base shield strength is not that high such as in your proposed build with prismatic.
With four pips to SYS I can ignore quite a lot of damage for some time apart from plasma, just have to be wary if several opponents gang up against me with that lower base shield. And since shields recharge twice as fast in super cruise and the Cutter can't be mass locked - edit: by any ship available to players except another Cutter, learned the hard way on the Golconda Community Goal - low waking can get you out faster and still safely in most situations.
Check my power priorities, the thrusters don't fit in the 40% power budget with all the other essential modules plus shield generator and bugged shield reinforcements (big dirty drag). But fortunately thrusters have zero boot time and I fit them still in the 50% power budget (what a shot-out Power Plant delivers after it has stabilised, until you reboot and repair it to deliver 100%). Hence I have put some other stuff on higher priority. Even sensors, life support, a heat sink and an emissive pulse laser fit in the 20% power budget though.
To compensate for the lower integrity of the overcharged power plant I have two Module Reinforcement Packs. This makes it also much harder for others to damage the Frame Shift Drive once the shields are down.
The class 6 slots with AMFU and Fuel Scoop can also accommodate more reinforcements, a Fighter Hangar or a SRV Bay etc. The Point Defence is mostly intended against Hatch Breaker Limpets, but I don't know which slot is best suited for that purpose.
The two rails go to the bottom with the huge thermal vent gimballed beam for convergence, the medium hardpoints on the nacelles on the top are for wide arc turrets (not sure which are where between outfitting and coriolis.io). Rails are nice to take out the Frame Shift Drive of fleeing NPCs if you can't kill them fast enough.
 
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Master Lucky

Master Lucky
Looks like im the only one flying a T9 as a freighter. I kinda like the big lumpy ship. I can carry 756 tons of cargo and still make a 28ly jump. I only get interdicted when transporting Performance Enhancers and then i submit, let my FSD recharge and jump away. My Engineered 5D shields can take the attack, even from a Anaconda.
 

Kyle Stryker

Kyle Stryker
Depends on if you can afford or are willing to lose a Cutter. Since this is open put on a really strong shield, and supplement it with utility shield boosters and Guardian shield boosters. Balance out the shield resistances, and consider putting on a Armored Hull.
 

Fenwe

F
Charonys said:
Open. It's the main reason why I feel I need to be really tanky.
Click to expand...
Which explains why you went for absolute. There was an open player that posted his Cutter build. Darned if I can find it for you though. My google fu let me down. I was fairly sure he went bi weave thermal/resistance combined with heavy duty, which is the way I went when I saw it, but I don't play open. Good luck out there commander.
 

GroG79

G
Master Lucky said:
Looks like im the only one flying a T9 as a freighter. I kinda like the big lumpy ship. I can carry 756 tons of cargo and still make a 28ly jump. I only get interdicted when transporting Performance Enhancers and then i submit, let my FSD recharge and jump away. My Engineered 5D shields can take the attack, even from a Anaconda.
Click to expand...

I prefer the T9 over the cutter too. If the Cutter had brakes I might consider otherwise. With the T9s huge fuel tank I do not need a scoop on most trips/missions. Optionally I refit the 5c rack to a scoop. I have the collector for picking up the mats from my occasional npc kill and the SRV cause I also run scan missions beside the cargo missions in this ship. And yes this is a build for OPEN.

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My T7 is even better cause faster.. If cargo needs are < 288 ton

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B.Roberts

B.Roberts
If money is not an object get Cutter, definitely much more fun. On the other hand, if money is not an object, why would you need to bother with trading? Cutter is an awesome ship and I fly it more often then anything else in my fleet (really good at painite mining by the way), but for those rare trading runs I'm still using T9. T9 is 172 millions or so cheaper than Cutter (if both outfitted for trading) and it still moves more cargo then the Cutter. You could probably drop your shield and get more cargo but I wouldn't do it. As for the ability of the Cutter to defend itself when loaded, yeah, I guess. On the other hand usually you don't do battle when you flying freighter. I haven't lost a single T9 to pirates yet and my shield is only there for some landing accidents and for those moments when somebody shooting at me while I'm charging FSD, that's it. If you get interdicted on the T9 you submit, recharge and jump. Good luck mass locking T9. Here's Cutter and T9 with similar jump range for comparison. https://s.orbis.zone/52vj and here https://s.orbis.zone/52vm . Surely you could build heavily armed and armored Cutter and still have some cargo space on it but it is not a trader anymore and you not going to make any profit on it big enough to justify the price.
 

Obi Wan Naboo

Obi Wan Naboo
B.Roberts said:
On the other hand, if money is not an object, why would you need to bother with trading?
Click to expand...
CGs, running missions for BGS, for the fun of it. I still do enjoy trading without the need for profit. I prefer an armed trader where I can kill those pesky pirates and bag some bounties on the way.
 
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