Astronomy / Space Telescope from a computer

[Surfinjo]

My knowledge of telescope equipment is rather limited and not improved by the confusing way it is presented by many sites.

So, this is what I'm thinking about.

A good quality telescope which can be mounted in a back garden or perhaps on a properly constructed platform on my roof. I was thinking along the lines of Newtonian but another thread here has left me slightly more confused than I was.

I don't think that could have been taken with a refractor due to the diffraction spikes on the stars. Almost certainly a Newt. Lovely pic though.

(For non-astronomers, the spikes on the stars are caused by the four mounting posts (spider) of the secondary mirror on a Newtonian reflector. Refractors don't exhibit this because they use lenses, nor do Schmidt Cassegrain or Maksutov scopes because the secondary mirror is mounted on a glass plate)

Controlled by my computer. Turning, angle, focus and such.

All images downloaded into my computer so I can see them.

Does such equipment exist?

Can anyone point me in the right directions with some suggestions.

Here for example, is a list of the different telescope types: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_telescope_types

It is quite long. Some help in wading through it if anyone has the knowledge.

 

[metatheurgist]

Always thought it'd be nifty to have my own computerised observatory, so I have looked into it before. There are certainly camera mounts that can be attached to telescopes, with usb or wireless digital camera options you could transfer the data to your computer. There are certainly telescopes with motors that can rotate and focus on specific parts of the sky themselves. I'm not certain how much computer connectivity those have or whether it'd be difficult to hack something yourself. You could certainly build something from scratch if you had the electronics skills.

I'm not sure what your area of confusion is with the quoted post? Those are just different constructions of telescopes, with different operating advantages.

 

[CMDR Heisenberg B. Damned]

You can but most astronomers advise against computerised ones, they increase costs massively and you end up with a much worse scope for your money and no real knowledge of the stars. I follow this guy on twitter and he knows his stuff.

http://www.meteorwatch.org/

Got a guide on starter scopes. Of course if you REALLY want a computerised one then that site probably isn't for you.

 

[HailVectron]

I've got a bit of experience with this, but all of your requirements are most definitely possible off the shelf. But what you're after will be very, VERY expensive.

You'll need a computer controller mount of course, a big one for photography, and for imaging, a guide scope, and guide camera to keep the mount pointed perfectly at what you're aiming at (all scopes have miniscule tracking errors, and when your shutter is open for 5-10 minutes at a time, you'll have funny shaped stars if you don't guide the scope with a computer), a main scope and main camera. You may also need a filter wheel if your cam is not one of the RGB types (so as to be more sensitive, the chips on dedicated astrocams often just respond to photons, whatever the wavelength, so you'd have to put red, green and blue filters in a wheel if you wanted to catch colour images). The filters can also be hundreds of pound/dollars if you want to do narrowband imaging (a lot of nebulae emit most of their radiation in the Hydrogen Alpha wavelength). Obviously you need a computer to run all the software needed to control everything. Since you'll want to do everything with the computer, you will also need motorised, computer controlled, temperature sensing, focussers on both scopes. That'll be a big expense too.

It's a big undertaking to get a fully automated setup, but you can do it in bits and pieces. If you're willing to do some manual jobs, like the focusing, rotating the filter wheel, opening the observatory, etc, you can get away with just the mount, 2 scopes, 2 cameras, and the laptop - and get some pretty nice images.

If you google "Astroimaging", you'll find a lot of dedicated sites run by amateurs who will happily give you advice. It is a huge black art though, takes years to learn, and a lot of money to get started I've been doing it for a long time, and I probably know 10% of everything there is to know !!

 

[Surfinjo]

I'm not sure what your area of confusion is with the quoted post? Those are just different constructions of telescopes, with different operating advantages.

Thanks loads for both responses.

The confusion I have is when terms are used that I don't understand. A few and it's a matter of checking, too many and it becomes confusion.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. What I'm hoping for is to be able to see what I'm looking at from my computer screen.

I realise the big advantages of using the optics myself, but a life of excess has put a few limitations on my mobility, if you see what I mean?

I don't know how good the resolution would be with a PC. The image would need to be collected with some sort of CCD built into the 'scope, perhaps as an attachment to the eye-piece.

I can imagine a number of problems. The scope would need to be mounted each night and taken down afterward for example.

But do you see where I'm going with this. Being able to sit at my PC and look at the stars, perhaps record images or even moving images.

 

[CMDR Heisenberg B. Damned]

Well if mobility is an issue then you can get ready made computerised scopes, link them to your laptop/PC and use a HD webcam attached to the eyepiece to feed back into the computer. It'd take some setting up and the scope will like be in the multi 100's of pounds/dollars.

Try something like this maybe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF3BfYW4vwM

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iarXeMkIJ2E

You'd be better starting smaller to make sure it's for you though as prices can start climbing up real fast but again your choice.

 

[HailVectron]

You would need a very sensitive specialist camera to see anything but the planets, the moon, and a few bright stars, which is about all you'd see with a standard webcam. There are a few 'live' astrocameras out there, but to see galaxies and nebulae, you're going to need a long exposure setup. Baby steps though! You cojld do worse initially than finding a really dark sky site, and taking along a deck chair and a pair of decent binos!

 

[Surfinjo]

Thanks loads to all who have responded.

I think I now know where to begin. It may sound lame but I honestly didn't know what to even start with, now I have a term, astrophotography.

I can see what you all mean by what can be reasonably expected to see. As HailVectron says, though, baby steps.

A look at what is available on Amazon indicates that it is pricey, though that is more a goal. And I might be able to start with looking at Planets and such.

I had a look at the video of the chap taking an HD camera apart. A few years ago and that would have been me, (and I suspect, most of us), but now, being that near to a Stanley knife......

The motorised mounting I did find. Numerous ones available.

But at least I have a lot to think about now.

My house has a pitched roof so the apex runs N/S. One thought was to have a good friend who is a roofer, build a small platform next to the skylight.

I should be able to reach out to mount/ unmount the telescope/camera. Though that would of course, leave it exposed all day and perhaps under bright sunlight. (One of the hazards of living on the English Riviera). The alternative of taking it down each night is a possibility but one I shall have to think about.

Mounting it in my back garden is more of a problem simply because of the numerous obstructions. Besides, my back garden is really small and part of the battle field for the local cats. I think they might find the arrival of a moving telescope an amusing diversion.

But at least I have some ideas of where to begin.

Has anyone gone down this route, even partially, say motorised telescope mountings?

 

[HailVectron]

I have, and the best resource I found during the steep learning curve was ukastroimaging.co.uk. I used to be on there constantly, but having a young family I lost all the free time I had previously dedicated to the pursuit of elusive photons! I still go there periodically though, some of the images those guys produce are astounding.

 

[Surfinjo]

I have, and the best resource I found during the steep learning curve was ukastroimaging.co.uk. I used to be on there constantly, but having a young family I lost all the free time I had previously dedicated to the pursuit of elusive photons! I still go there periodically though, some of the images those guys produce are astounding.

Thanks. That will be especially useful to know.

The mounting issue as you will, I'm sure, confirm, is about ensuring the movement is as smooth as possible, to ensure that the desired positions are achieved and maintained. I last worked with stepper motors about 35 years ago, while helping to design and build a large table plotter. The best steppers at that time were not particularly good but we managed to improve the resolution using gearing to achieve step down ratios.

The technology is fairly well established now so I will imagine the resolution of the steppers is considerably better. Though good sourcing is always the issue.

Where I do intend to concentrate most of my research at the beginning is on the cctv pickup technology. I've started looking at a few of the available products on the market. It seems that, for less than about £1000, the best that can be expected is to see the solar system. That isn't as bad as it might seem, though of course, it would be wonderful to start with something much better, I will just have to live with what I can reach.

The units plug straight into the sides of Newtonian style, reflective telescopes. I did look at the diy approach, especially from the videos supplied by Heisenberg above as I said. Really interesting, but no.

So, I'm looking to accept severe limits with the prospects of later improvement.

As I said, the early thinking stage at this time. If I get any drawings or ideas down I'll post them here.

I think this might be fun.

 

[Surfinjo]

Been looking at the verious types of telescopes available.

One that has caught my eye is the Dobsonian which is reported to be simple and without fuss. It has a wide aperture. Seems idea for astrophotography, (depending upon the model) and can incorporate motorised mounts.

Anyone have any experience with Dobsonian or have any comments?

 

[HailVectron]

P

Been looking at the verious types of telescopes available.

One that has caught my eye is the Dobsonian which is reported to be simple and without fuss. It has a wide aperture. Seems idea for astrophotography, (depending upon the model) and can incorporate motorised mounts.

Anyone have any experience with Dobsonian or have any comments?

Dobsonians arent ideal for photography as they are not Equatorially mounted, so cannot easily track the movement of the sky as the earth turns. Motorised ones are also rare, more common are 'push-to' models with sensors which beep when you get near to your tartget object.

You do get the most apeture for your money though. (Bigger apeture, brighter image) They are also the easiest to set up, and understand, and use, but primarily, its a manual, observation instrument. Great fun though, I have a 12" open strut dob.

 

[Surfinjo]

P

Dobsonians arent ideal for photography as they are not Equatorially mounted, so cannot easily track the movement of the sky as the earth turns. Motorised ones are also rare, more common are 'push-to' models with sensors which beep when you get near to your tartget object.

You do get the most apeture for your money though. (Bigger apeture, brighter image) They are also the easiest to set up, and understand, and use, but primarily, its a manual, observation instrument. Great fun though, I have a 12" open strut dob.

The advantages you listed are what seems most attractive.

The motors do seem to be available, though. This one, which sadly isn't available right now for example. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Orion-SkyQuest-Computerized-Dobsonian-Telescope/dp/B003E8Q18U

If it isn't too much trouble, can you explain the different types of mountings and their relative advantages.

I understand the need for tracking an object across the sky. Just the explaination for the different mounting terms hasn't quite clicked yet. :~

 

[HailVectron]

There are lots of guides on the differences between equatorial and altazimuth mounts. Try this one http://www.lcas-astronomy.org/artic...l_vs_altazimuth_mountings&category=telescopes

The short version is that an eq mount only needs to rotate on one axis and at one speed, to track the sky but an altaz needs to move both axes, and at different rates depending on the objects altitude in the sky

 

[Surfinjo]

There are lots of guides on the differences between equatorial and altazimuth mounts. Try this one http://www.lcas-astronomy.org/artic...l_vs_altazimuth_mountings&category=telescopes

The short version is that an eq mount only needs to rotate on one axis and at one speed, to track the sky but an altaz needs to move both axes, and at different rates depending on the objects altitude in the sky

Now that's the sort of sensible, straight to the point explanation I prefer.

With an equatorial, you can follow a celestial object as it moves through the sky

Is this guy watching angels and fairys or just the bright colours?

Sorry, I don't mean to be cynical. Thanks loads for the link., A recommended link saves a load of time, wading though what generally turns out to be advertising.

Some new generation amateur and observatory telescopes are mounted on altazimuths (glorified Dobsonians), with digitally-controlled drives on both axes. They can follow objects with precision, while taking advantage of the stability of the altaz design. I have yet to see a reasonably portable GEM that allows the image to settle down as quickly as it does in a Dob.

That sounds hopeful.

I like the idea of a Dobsonian because of its reported simplicity. I'll need to do a load more research though to see where I'm going with this.

 

[titan_uk]

How is your general star knowledge, do you know how to and be able to find a star on demand? If you are just starting out I recommend (as everyone else does) a really good pair of binoculars. Learn your systems and how to find them, then if you feel you want to take it farther go from there.

It's amazing how many in our astro club pack in after a month or two of binos, they find they can't really be bothered and in all honesty I think that if you can't be bothered learning a little then you will be wasting your money on a telescope that will hardly be used once you have taken a few pictures of the fancy systems.

Alternatively if you have a bit of experience and want to get a telescope find out where your local(ish) astro club is and pop along on a star night. They will be a friendly bunch and no doubt you can have a gander through a member's scope or two.

 

[Gut Rumble]

I would suggest visiting here:
http://stargazerslounge.com/#
.
Have a good look around all the threads that interest you , this place is a wealth of knowledge . about scopes ,building observatories from sheds and other things. cameras ,computer guided scopes and much MUCH more.
I often go here if only to view the pictures these "Amateurs " take (bottom of forum)...well hope you find what your looking for

 

[Surfinjo]

How is your general star knowledge, do you know how to and be able to find a star on demand? If you are just starting out I recommend (as everyone else does) a really good pair of binoculars. Learn your systems and how to find them, then if you feel you want to take it farther go from there.

It's amazing how many in our astro club pack in after a month or two of binos, they find they can't really be bothered and in all honesty I think that if you can't be bothered learning a little then you will be wasting your money on a telescope that will hardly be used once you have taken a few pictures of the fancy systems.

Alternatively if you have a bit of experience and want to get a telescope find out where your local(ish) astro club is and pop along on a star night. They will be a friendly bunch and no doubt you can have a gander through a member's scope or two.

Limited to be honest. I have owned and used binoculars for a number of years. Interesting but really more a jumble of stars rather than an enhanced experience. Personally, I have found a lot more interest out of observing the stars in the Northern Hemisphere by eye than anything else.

I don't know if you've ever been in the Southern Hemisphere, but when you see the southern night sky pokadotted with stars everywhere, you begin to appreciate our local pollution.

The tip of joining a local club is well taken, but sadly I can't.

I would suggest visiting here:
http://stargazerslounge.com/#

I will definitely take a look at this site. Thank you.

The more information that I can get, especially on the different types of equipment and what they do, relative advantages, maintenance and costs, the better. That is where I'm really looking at this time.

It's unfortunate that stargazing is still quite exclusive. Information is there and generally straightforward enough. But wading through the prose to get to the substance can be a chore.

I have the time now so hoping to do that.

 

[Porina]

Missed this thread before now. Seems to be a lot of topics. Is the original desire still valid? Like many things, it is hard to know what you really want until you try it.

The needs are different between visual observation, and imaging. Observation is much less demanding in that sense. And what you can observe depends on your location. Light pollution will quickly limit you, and filters can only get you so far. I've had fun observing the planets, although for any sane amount of money only Mars, Jupiter and Saturn are of much interest, plus the moon and even the ISS is not impossible if you can track its high speed (prefocus and point by hand). Further afield there are some interesting contrasting binary star colours, or star clusters, but as far as I'm concerned that's about the visual limit in a light polluted area. Unless you have very dark skies, nebulae are practically out.

Going into imaging, there are various options. A cheap DSLR with a fast lens is a strong low budget imaging system for widefield, such as galaxies, nebulae. They key to getting results where you can't really cut corners is to put it on a decent mount, which you will have to align.

This is an old photo from when I first set up a mount. This isn't a cheap one, but there are lower cost options as well as far more expensive ones too. I decided to fix it in place in the garden, so that once set up, I don't need to align it every time it is used. This is a massive time saver. There is a weather resistant cover for it. To use it, I just take the cover off, and bring a power cable out and fit whatever optics I want to use. I use this semi-manually, and point manually then leave it to track. I have actually bought the bits to computer control it also, but setting it up took so long I never got around to finishing it! Some people even use free software which can take an image, look up what is in the image and can do fine corrections to the alignment also. But that involves getting the 1st part set up...

 

[EponymousCowherd]

I started with a fairly basic 'scope. A Celestron Astromaster 130EQ, which is a 130mm Newtonian on a cheap-as-chips manual equatorial mount. The OTA (Optical Tube Assembly, the actual telescope bit) is pretty good, but the mount leaves a lot to be desired, and don't get me started on that hideous red-dot finder (quickly swapped that out for a Telrad)

Its a great way to learn, however, as you need to align and point it yourself. Want to see Bode's Nebula? You need to know how to locate it. Books like the superb Turn Left at Orion can help here.

Its also worth getting yourself some planetarium software. The superb "Stellarium" is well worth its price (free). There is also a mobile (Android) version. Also give Celestron's "SkyPortal" (Android and, I think, IOS) a try. It has a trick up its sleeve if you want to move on to something more sophisticated.

Also worth looking up you local Astronomical Society/Club. Ours has regular talks and observing sessions and members are always willing to offer help and advice.

My current 'scope is a Celestron Evolution 9.25 . This combines the rather good 9.25 inch Schmidt Cassegrain OTA with a "goto" Alt-Az mount which has a built in battery and Wireless hotspot. You connect to it from a tablet and use the SkyPortal app to align it (pick any three bright stars) and guide it. Tap on the object in the planetarium and the scope slews to it. Very portable for its size and very quick to align and get observing. Not very useful for deep sky objects due to its long focal length (and narrow field of view), though, but is pretty versatile otherwise.