Thank you FEDV - one of the most successful Maelstrom defenses is (completely demotivated) ceasing its work!

[Shayan al Nasarwa]

We don't know if you (FDEV) even noticed, but Maelstrom Oya had one of the strongest (perhaps the strongest) defenses against Thargoid expansion since the beginning of the Thargoid War. At the time of the strongest Thargoid expansion with almost 1,200 control systems, the first systems around Oya had already been recaptured and only 75 systems were still under Thargoid control.

At the beginning of July 2023, the Thargoids around Oya were pushed back to 30 systems. Since then, we have only recaptured individual systems and now have 24 control systems.

The success on Oya is due to the very well-coordinated work of many commanders from different squadrons. Our “Stellanebula Project" squadron played a big part in these successes. We were probably the first squadron to focus on a single maelstrom. This gave us a sense of identification and every success achieved here was celebrated in our small community. A special success for us to this day is the recapture of Cephei Sector ZZ-Y b3 in the cycle from April 20-26, 2024, which gave us an excellent opportunity to advance to Titan Oya, having probably the first bridgehead at that time.

Our group consists of a solid core of no more than a dozen commanders who have taken on the new tasks in the alert and invasion systems week after week. This group has come together again and again until the very end and has managed to fend off the alerts made increasingly difficult by you (FDEV) by collecting boring tissue samples.

After the complete recapture of the control systems around Taranis and Leigong, you significantly increased the level of difficulty before Christmas; a much larger number of tissue samples were required, especially in uninhabited alert systems. The galactic community has clearly understood this message from you, dear FEDV team, that further reconquests are not yet wanted. Presumably the rest of the story to be told is not yet fully programmed and in any case still requires Thargoid-controlled areas.

What was remarkable and frustrating even then was that you did not communicate the increase in difficulty in any way.

In the current cycle from January 25.-31.01.2024, you have once again significantly increased the difficulty level. Uninhabited alerts now require twice as many tissue samples. This increase happened again without communication (you could have at least included it in the Galnet news). And it happened even though there have been no recaptures at all since the last adjustment before Christmas.

For this - please excuse the sarcasm - we thank you very much. You have finally managed to convince one of the last remaining effective defense units that it should cease its work. As a sign of silent protest, last night we repelled the most difficult alert system at Oya this cycle - Gliese 9035. 13 hardworking commanders from Stellanebula Project and friends collected over 4200 tissue samples and sold them to the rescue ships.

These 13 hard-working Commanders, loyal to the game, are now looking forward to other tasks. Whether they seek these tasks in Elite Dangerous, we shall see. There are certainly many other games in which the community is not kicked in the ass, or is kicked in a much nicer way.



So with this last action we also say: "So long and thanks for the fish". Perhaps the most successful local defense units around Oya are hereby ending their service until further notice.


We understand that you at FDEV are also going through difficult times at the moment. It is therefore understandable for us that development plans are delayed or cannot be implemented as planned.

We are very big fans of this game and have really enjoyed the innovations of the last two years, especially the Thargoid War. You have done a great job.

Nevertheless: please take this criticism to heart, because even the greatest game (and I personally as the writer of these lines consider ED to be the greatest game) lives from the fact that people feel comfortable in the game and play it. Yesterday, unfortunately, you showed how not to do it.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Honestly, my sympathy is very limited that the difficulty to sample away the war has been increased. Ask me, it was well due, especially if what you claim is true and a single squad of a dozen players was able to control a Maelstrom. It was very cheesy and OP to begin with, and apparently finally Frontier have decided to reign it in. Good on them.

 

[Darrack]

We don't know if you (FDEV) even noticed, but Maelstrom Oya had one of the strongest (perhaps the strongest) defenses against Thargoid expansion since the beginning of the Thargoid War. At the time of the strongest Thargoid expansion with almost 1,200 control systems, the first systems around Oya had already been recaptured and only 75 systems were still under Thargoid control.

At the beginning of July 2023, the Thargoids around Oya were pushed back to 30 systems. Since then, we have only recaptured individual systems and now have 24 control systems.

The success on Oya is due to the very well-coordinated work of many commanders from different squadrons. Our “Stellanebula Project" squadron played a big part in these successes. We were probably the first squadron to focus on a single maelstrom. This gave us a sense of identification and every success achieved here was celebrated in our small community. A special success for us to this day is the recapture of Cephei Sector ZZ-Y b3 in the cycle from April 20-26, 2024, which gave us an excellent opportunity to advance to Titan Oya, having probably the first bridgehead at that time.

Our group consists of a solid core of no more than a dozen commanders who have taken on the new tasks in the alert and invasion systems week after week. This group has come together again and again until the very end and has managed to fend off the alerts made increasingly difficult by you (FDEV) by collecting boring tissue samples.

After the complete recapture of the control systems around Taranis and Leigong, you significantly increased the level of difficulty before Christmas; a much larger number of tissue samples were required, especially in uninhabited alert systems. The galactic community has clearly understood this message from you, dear FEDV team, that further reconquests are not yet wanted. Presumably the rest of the story to be told is not yet fully programmed and in any case still requires Thargoid-controlled areas.

What was remarkable and frustrating even then was that you did not communicate the increase in difficulty in any way.

In the current cycle from January 25.-31.01.2024, you have once again significantly increased the difficulty level. Uninhabited alerts now require twice as many tissue samples. This increase happened again without communication (you could have at least included it in the Galnet news). And it happened even though there have been no recaptures at all since the last adjustment before Christmas.

For this - please excuse the sarcasm - we thank you very much. You have finally managed to convince one of the last remaining effective defense units that it should cease its work. As a sign of silent protest, last night we repelled the most difficult alert system at Oya this cycle - Gliese 9035. 13 hardworking commanders from Stellanebula Project and friends collected over 4200 tissue samples and sold them to the rescue ships.

These 13 hard-working Commanders, loyal to the game, are now looking forward to other tasks. Whether they seek these tasks in Elite Dangerous, we shall see. There are certainly many other games in which the community is not kicked in the ass, or is kicked in a much nicer way.



So with this last action we also say: "So long and thanks for the fish". Perhaps the most successful local defense units around Oya are hereby ending their service until further notice.


We understand that you at FDEV are also going through difficult times at the moment. It is therefore understandable for us that development plans are delayed or cannot be implemented as planned.

We are very big fans of this game and have really enjoyed the innovations of the last two years, especially the Thargoid War. You have done a great job.

Nevertheless: please take this criticism to heart, because even the greatest game (and I personally as the writer of these lines consider ED to be the greatest game) lives from the fact that people feel comfortable in the game and play it. Yesterday, unfortunately, you showed how not to do it.

So Fdev have effectively simulated an enemy learning from its mistakes and increasing the requirements to defeat it.
Pretty normal in warfare.

O7

 

[Schmack]

Honestly, my sympathy is very limited that the difficulty to sample away the war has been increased. Ask me, it was well due, especially if what you claim is true and a single squad of a dozen players was able to control a Maelstrom. It was very cheesy and OP to begin with, and apparently finally Frontier have decided to reign it in. Good on them.

Perhaps, but a silent goalpost move isn't good for the game and teamwork initiative. Imagine you get all the materials needed to upgrade your suit only to learn once you get to the pioneer store that the requirements have changed. Hindsight can say it was too easy to begin with, but that's not the complaint.

So Fdev have effectively simulated an enemy learning from its mistakes and increasing the requirements to defeat it.
Pretty normal in warfare.

O7

That's a convenient narrative not apparent in the game. 3 shots to kill something suddenly becomes 6 shots. No explanation. Bugs are just as easy/hard to kill as before. So did only this aspect change? Seems like hand of god to me, similar to how mining was nerfed but for gaming reasons each time perhaps.

 

[Danieros]

Sorry to hear about it. Even as someone not constantly engaged in the war it's really frustrating seeing this constant rule-changing of numbers, and even mechanics. A total disregard for the players spending their time with it.

 

[sidereal6]

you significantly increased the level of difficulty

You sound like what (I imagine) every Starfleet cadet sounds like when they face the Kobayashi Maru

Here's the thing: all your life, every single video game you've ever played has been designed for you to win. And you've always known that. You played Halo (just to pick a handy example) and you watched the cutscene where, "OH NO!! THEY'RE GOING TO KILL ALL LIFE IN THE GALAXY!!" but deep down, you knew that wasn't going to happen. This is not even limited to video games. You watched the movie, Avengers, but deep down, you knew there'd be a sequel where they'd "unsnap" Thanos' fingers.

You and your friends worked hard, and you pushed back Oya back. Did that feel good? Do you feel like you accomplished something? Consider this: if ED was like every other game, then your accomplishment would actually mean nothing. Because deep down, you would know that no matter what you did, Oya was going to lose. The humans are always going to win.

It's kind of an empty accomplishment, isn't it?

There's something to be learned from the Kobayashi Maru. It's a fictional thing, I understand that. But there's something to be learned from it. Existing in that space where you say, "I gave my all, and I lost" is valuable.

You think, "boo hoo, my friends and I worked hard" - but if ED was like every other game, the truth would be, "my friends and I worked hard ...but it doesn't matter because the humans were always going to win."

Maybe you should think, "my friends and I fought valiantly, but we couldn't stop it." That's a new experience. You have never gotten that from a game before. Instead of being angry, you should probably be asking FDev for a special decal.

I have to tell you, if I was in charge of the story of ED, the human bubble would absolutely get wiped out. I've posted about this before. It's not that the goids would be "invincible." It's just that I'd turn up the difficulty until the humans were basically broken by it.

I'd have them wipe the bubble clean. There'd be a monumental effort to defend Sol, I'm sure. That'd slow them for a few months, maybe a year. But they'd eventually win. They'd boil the oceans and crater the land of your beloved home planet. Later there'd be a giant effort to evacuate to Colonia ...the 'goids would follow you there too.

And as I said, I've posted about this before, but I'd eventually offer an escape route to the Andromeda galaxy, using some guardian technology.

The point is, that'd be a much, much better story that what you're probably actually going to get from ED. Your expectation is that it's just like every other game. The "bad guys" seem threatening, but actually the humans win in the end. I would love for there to be one game that was different. One game where we humans are well and truly f-ed.

And you (yes you, OP who is reading this and being angry that I'm disagreeing with you) - you would enjoy this story more too. You don't believe me, and you can't imagine it, but you would. You would love to be in a whole new galaxy, and to see the Milky Way in the sky - your ancestral home that you can never return to. And you'd wear your Oya patch with pride, having been one of the brave pilots that worked so hard to slow the goids, allowing countless billions of humans time to escape.

You would enjoy that way, way more than you would enjoy saying "for the past 12 weeks I've played 8 hours a day grinding samples and I've reduced the number of control systems by 4 ...in a story where no matter what I do, the humans will eventually win anyway."

 

[Northpin]

What was remarkable and frustrating even then was that you did not communicate the increase in difficulty in any way.

While i do agree that winning the war by peeling small bits of their skin and selling them for profit is cheesy, lame and silly - it's how it worked
However, maybe it wasnt intended that peeling to have such big impact so FDev adjusted the numbers

If you want to look at it in character - you can rationalize that Thargoids finally did catch up with human tactics and ajusted their own tactics

In the current cycle from January 25.-31.01.2024, you have once again significantly increased the difficulty level. Uninhabited alerts now require twice as many tissue samples

It looks like you missed the first memo

For this - please excuse the sarcasm - we thank you very much. You have finally managed to convince one of the last remaining effective defense units that it should cease its work. As a sign of silent protest, last night we repelled the most difficult alert system at Oya this cycle - Gliese 9035. 13 hardworking commanders from Stellanebula Project and friends collected over 4200 tissue samples and sold them to the rescue ships.

Again, 1 dozen commanders winning the war by doing cosmetics (peeling dark spots from them thargoids) is a bit silly - and FDev decided enough is enough (maybe?)



Not at last, it's an event driven by FDev - you cant really expect to win unless the story allows you to.

 

[Rainbro]

You sound like what (I imagine) every Starfleet cadet sounds like when they face the Kobayashi Maru

Here's the thing: all your life, every single video game you've ever played has been designed for you to win. And you've always known that. You played Halo (just to pick a handy example) and you watched the cutscene where, "OH NO!! THEY'RE GOING TO KILL ALL LIFE IN THE GALAXY!!" but deep down, you knew that wasn't going to happen. This is not even limited to video games. You watched the movie, Avengers, but deep down, you knew there'd be a sequel where they'd "unsnap" Thanos' fingers.

You and your friends worked hard, and you pushed back Oya back. Did that feel good? Do you feel like you accomplished something? Consider this: if ED was like every other game, then your accomplishment would actually mean nothing. Because deep down, you would know that no matter what you did, Oya was going to lose. The humans are always going to win.

It's kind of an empty accomplishment, isn't it?

There's something to be learned from the Kobayashi Maru. It's a fictional thing, I understand that. But there's something to be learned from it. Existing in that space where you say, "I gave my all, and I lost" is valuable.

You think, "boo hoo, my friends and I worked hard" - but if ED was like every other game, the truth would be, "my friends and I worked hard ...but it doesn't matter because the humans were always going to win."

Maybe you should think, "my friends and I fought valiantly, but we couldn't stop it." That's a new experience. You have never gotten that from a game before. Instead of being angry, you should probably be asking FDev for a special decal.

I have to tell you, if I was in charge of the story of ED, the human bubble would absolutely get wiped out. I've posted about this before. It's not that the goids would be "invincible." It's just that I'd turn up the difficulty until the humans were basically broken by it.

I'd have them wipe the bubble clean. There'd be a monumental effort to defend Sol, I'm sure. That'd slow them for a few months, maybe a year. But they'd eventually win. They'd boil the oceans and crater the land of your beloved home planet. Later there'd be a giant effort to evacuate to Colonia ...the 'goids would follow you there too.

And as I said, I've posted about this before, but I'd eventually offer an escape route to the Andromeda galaxy, using some guardian technology.

The point is, that'd be a much, much better story that what you're probably actually going to get from ED. Your expectation is that it's just like every other game. The "bad guys" seem threatening, but actually the humans win in the end. I would love for there to be one game that was different. One game where we humans are well and truly f-ed.

And you (yes you, OP who is reading this and being angry that I'm disagreeing with you) - you would enjoy this story more too. You don't believe me, and you can't imagine it, but you would. You would love to be in a whole new galaxy, and to see the Milky Way in the sky - your ancestral home that you can never return to. And you'd wear your Oya patch with pride, having been one of the brave pilots that worked so hard to slow the goids, allowing countless billions of humans time to escape.

You would enjoy that way, way more than you would enjoy saying "for the past 12 weeks I've played 8 hours a day grinding samples and I've reduced the number of control systems by 4 ...in a story where no matter what I do, the humans will eventually win anyway."

I think you're making the same point as OP, just in the opposite direction. You're saying that other games have this sense of "what you do doesn't matter because humanity is always going to win". OP is suggesting that regardless of what they do, Frontier can shift the goalposts so that they can't win. In both scenarios, there is a sense the player's actions don't matter - here because Frontier can just redefine what is needed for success and place it out of reach every time people get close because they're going faster than the pace of GalNet.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Perhaps, but a silent goalpost move isn't good for the game and teamwork initiative. Imagine you get all the materials needed to upgrade your suit only to learn once you get to the pioneer store that the requirements have changed. Hindsight can say it was too easy to begin with, but that's not the complaint.

But that is not what happened. At Pioneer, it says "this costs X" right on the tin. In the war, it said nowhere "you need x samples to make an alert go away". Players figured out the system hidden behind the mechanics, and decided to exploit that system. Of course they would. So Frontier finally tweaked the system so the progress fits their planned story progress. What else did you think would happen?

 

[Rainbro]

But that is not what happened. At Pioneer, it says "this costs X" right on the tin. In the war, it said nowhere "you need x samples to make an alert go away". Players figured out the system hidden behind the mechanics, and decided to exploit that system. Of course they would. So Frontier finally tweaked the system so the progress fits their planned story progress. What else did you think would happen?

I certainly thought this was fairly likely given how Frontier set things up, but it still kinda sucks. It's easy to see how people get demotivated if their involvement only affects how much or little Frontier shift the bar to counteract them. "If I stop fighting, will it matter or will Frontier just make it easier for those who remain?"

 

[HappyMoonMonkey]

fend off the alerts made increasingly difficult by you (FDEV) by collecting boring tissue samples.

Congratulations, you found a way to cheese the war front by grinding a boring task. No one offered you victory this way.

increased the level of difficulty before Christmas; a much larger number of tissue samples were required,

So do something more interesting that you'll not describe as "boring"?

In the current cycle from January 25.-31.01.2024, you have once again significantly increased the difficulty level. Uninhabited alerts now require twice as many tissue samples.

As per Northpin - Get the memo.

13 hardworking commanders from Stellanebula Project and friends collected over 4200 tissue samples and sold them to the rescue ships.

Congratulations CMDRs. We do thank you for your hard work. What you HAVE achieved is a real push back of the enemy frontline which is fun to see. But like all grinders in this game, please don't grind away the fun. Players make this game grindy, not the game itself. We always worried that sampling was overpowered as a mechanic and finally the Thargoids have taken notice. Now go back to shooting some bugs in the face.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I certainly thought this was fairly likely given how Frontier set things up, but it still kinda sucks. It's easy to see how people get demotivated if their involvement only affects how much or little Frontier shift the bar to counteract them. "If I stop fighting, will it matter or will Frontier just make it easier for those who remain?"

While I get that point, I would think it is very delusional to think that player action really changes the outcome or progression of the game if they just cheese the systems enough.

 

[Northpin]

It's easy to see how people get demotivated if their involvement only affects how much or little Frontier shift the bar to counteract them. "If I stop fighting, will it matter or will Frontier just make it easier for those who remain?"

Well, i basically stopped fighting when no invasions were happening due to excessive peeling killing all alerts.
(the introduction of the guardian weapon/module degrading field making guardian weaponry useless didnt helped either)

 

[Danieros]

While I get that point, I would think it is very delusional to think that player action really changes the outcome or progression of the game if they just cheese the systems enough.

This isn't "cheesing" when it's been going on for like a year and it wasn't even an originally possible way to affect the war. If Frontier deemed sampling to be cheesing then they could have quickly nerfed it before it became the norm. There has been no lack of feedback about it and I'm sure they have the numbers internally too - how the majority of war progresss likely coming from sampling and not shooting.

Either way, this new nerf isn't aimed at sampling, it was an overall doubling of difficulty so other actions are equally affected. Especially since unpopulated alerts are notoriously difficulty to find any combat opportunities at all.

To me it seemed that Frontier wants the Thargoids to grow into a record number of systems, so they have been changing all war rules to achieve it. And that is going to give a horrible feeling to the players that are engaged with it... and it won't feel immersive at all.

 

[Kayvan]

I guess what makes this so extra frustrating for the players involved is that, 8 months ago or so, FDev WANTED players to do exactly that; give Orthruses anal probes in Alert systems. There were many "hints" that we'd have to defeat the enemy not where he is, but where he will be. So players took the hints, and did what FDev expected them to do, and then FDev decided it was not what they wanted us to do after all. There is a name for this practice, bait and switch.

Now admittedly, as a player I wasn't too happy with Invasions going away entirely, as they have last summer. At the time it wasn't a big deal for me since I don't play (much) in summer anyway. So in a way I welcomed the return of invasions in winter. But the entirety of the war gameplay loops, all of them, increasingly feel like Whac-A-Mole.

https://imgur.com/moo0BtB

It's endless, and no matter what you do, they just keep coming back. Defend one system, they'll just attack another next week, and re-attack the first system again in four weeks. And contrary to what we were promised with the thargoid spire "contaminations", there is absolutely no sign of the enemy running out of resources or getting weakened in any way. On the contrary, they just keep getting stronger every other week. So WHAT are we supposed to do?

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Well, i basically stopped fighting when no invasions were happening due to excessive peeling killing all alerts.

Exactly. I got very demotivated to actually fight in the war when the sampling took over. This here reminds me of some saying of pots, kettles and their colour.

 

[Hanerib]

Collecting several tissue samples from supposedly alive hostile alien species is unethical. Why not collect escape pods or something like that instead. Rescuing pod people is nice, it's like trouble for everybody excluding the people you actually save. Unless they actually wanted to dream dreams of the Far god while being encapsulated and genetically altered.

 

[StevieG]

why do you think you can win? Do you think a Powerplay faction could ever win at PP? This goid gaming loop is here to stay, there will never be a winner, just more added game loops.

I think you went into this thinking this is a real winnable war, its not, its a continuous game loop that will be here till they switch off the servers.

 

[amigacooke]

Do you think a Powerplay faction could ever win at PP?

That’s what was originally said, faction could be destroyed.

 

[JakXLT]

So WHAT are we supposed to do?

Hold the line until the Galnet moves along. Pretty sure that's all we were ever meant to do.