Elite / Frontier Thargoids
- Thread starter Moriarity
- Start date
Yeah, bring 'em back and lets add a few more species as well. I wonder if procedurally generated aliens (like the universe) would be a goer?
I actually voted no to thargoids. I never played Elite or FFE, only Frontier which didn't have them. And still it is to me the best game ever made. I heard dreadful stories of course about the near superior force the thargoids posed.
But I am so sick and tired about uber-enemies in games. Many times have I abandoned a game simply because it becomes too hard. What about games that actually adjust to my skills? Uber enemies usually doesn't allow this, neither by strenght nor by numbers.
Keep the strenght around my level, and the numbers around my numbers (in case I control several ships). Let the toughness be apparent through proper tactics instead. And let there be a general difficulty setting that can be adjusted while playing; sometimes I like having a hard time, other times I just want to play on auto with not much hazzle. Oblivion had this, and it didn't make me feel like a cheater. Had Oblivion had a default (middle) setting, I would abandon it because it simply becomes too tiresome fighting the same fights over and over. Todays games in general are not playable with me because they are too hard. Others will naturally disagree, claiming them to be too easy. Myself being a "lesser gamer" than most, shouldn't I be able to enjoy the game "my way"?
So... No uber enemies that essencially forces me to abandon the game because it gets too hard.
However, I welcome the thargoids as a species that attack and keep the game spicey at times, but don't make it impossible for me to outmanouver, outrun, or fight them off. If they were uber enemies, they wouldn't have problems achieving their goals.
But... This has to come with a story that unfolds throughout the game. Who are they, where are they from, and what makes them so agressive? Have they eliminated other cilivizations in the past? Anything they are afraid of?
Similarly, I welcome other species as well. But also with a story attached; i.e. we have just made contact with another species and things are going grand with trading and knowlegde sharing. Then suddenly they turn on us and starts attacking our outposts. Then a story to figure out why. Did we trespass into holy areas? Did they become enslaved and forced to do so, if so by whom and why? Please stay away from those horrible "what happened to my father" cliched stories, get some real inspiration by reading some Tom Clancy novels where the apparent is a lot more complex than at first glance.
Yes to Thargoids and other species as communities and even enemies.
No to Thargoids as uber enemies for the sole sake of being uber enemies (which is what I assume the poll was really about).
But I am so sick and tired about uber-enemies in games. Many times have I abandoned a game simply because it becomes too hard. What about games that actually adjust to my skills? Uber enemies usually doesn't allow this, neither by strenght nor by numbers.
Keep the strenght around my level, and the numbers around my numbers (in case I control several ships). Let the toughness be apparent through proper tactics instead. And let there be a general difficulty setting that can be adjusted while playing; sometimes I like having a hard time, other times I just want to play on auto with not much hazzle. Oblivion had this, and it didn't make me feel like a cheater. Had Oblivion had a default (middle) setting, I would abandon it because it simply becomes too tiresome fighting the same fights over and over. Todays games in general are not playable with me because they are too hard. Others will naturally disagree, claiming them to be too easy. Myself being a "lesser gamer" than most, shouldn't I be able to enjoy the game "my way"?
So... No uber enemies that essencially forces me to abandon the game because it gets too hard.However, I welcome the thargoids as a species that attack and keep the game spicey at times, but don't make it impossible for me to outmanouver, outrun, or fight them off. If they were uber enemies, they wouldn't have problems achieving their goals.
But... This has to come with a story that unfolds throughout the game. Who are they, where are they from, and what makes them so agressive? Have they eliminated other cilivizations in the past? Anything they are afraid of?
Similarly, I welcome other species as well. But also with a story attached; i.e. we have just made contact with another species and things are going grand with trading and knowlegde sharing. Then suddenly they turn on us and starts attacking our outposts. Then a story to figure out why. Did we trespass into holy areas? Did they become enslaved and forced to do so, if so by whom and why? Please stay away from those horrible "what happened to my father" cliched stories, get some real inspiration by reading some Tom Clancy novels where the apparent is a lot more complex than at first glance.
Yes to Thargoids and other species as communities and even enemies.
No to Thargoids as uber enemies for the sole sake of being uber enemies (which is what I assume the poll was really about).
Hi.
For those who have never played Elite 1, and dont know what the Thargoids are, here are a few bits of info.
1. Although not being a super difficult opponent, they were regarded as the finest pilots in the galaxy.
2. One reason for thier ruthlesness in battle, is they had thier fear glands removed.
3. They were a race of insectoids.
4. They flew hexagonal ships, some of which carried little ships inside. When the mother ship was destroyed, your ship could scoop up the mini ships, and sell them as alien artifacts.
5. They would suck ships from hyperspace, into what was called Witch Space, by jamming the hyperdrive. In witchspace you had nowhere to run and had to either wait for the hyperdrive to come back online, or use your Galactic Jump drive to jump to another Galaxy, all the while fighting off waves of Thargoids.
Thats about it. They were tough opponents if you werent carefull, but not impossible. Sometimes if you met them in normal space with another group of ships you had to run, but i think that some fights should be tough, at least if your ships not equipped to a high enough standard.
Cheers
Moriarity
For those who have never played Elite 1, and dont know what the Thargoids are, here are a few bits of info.
1. Although not being a super difficult opponent, they were regarded as the finest pilots in the galaxy.
2. One reason for thier ruthlesness in battle, is they had thier fear glands removed.
3. They were a race of insectoids.
4. They flew hexagonal ships, some of which carried little ships inside. When the mother ship was destroyed, your ship could scoop up the mini ships, and sell them as alien artifacts.
5. They would suck ships from hyperspace, into what was called Witch Space, by jamming the hyperdrive. In witchspace you had nowhere to run and had to either wait for the hyperdrive to come back online, or use your Galactic Jump drive to jump to another Galaxy, all the while fighting off waves of Thargoids.
Thats about it. They were tough opponents if you werent carefull, but not impossible. Sometimes if you met them in normal space with another group of ships you had to run, but i think that some fights should be tough, at least if your ships not equipped to a high enough standard.
Cheers
Moriarity
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Ya know, that kinda bothered me about Oblivion - fantastic game as it is, not entirely sure about that whole "enemies levelling with you" thing.
In a space-faring universe there are going to be every sort from rookie traders to battle hardened military pilots; there are going to be really sucky pirates and really sly pirates who are good at flying and fighting.
You could be attacked or confronted by anything, anytime. The game shouldn't assign an encounter that it knows you have a fair chance of beating, it should assign an encounter based on where you are and what you're doing.
If you're a rookie, and you choose to fly 300t of expensive luxury goods to an anarchic world, you get what you deserve - which is probably every scumbag in the area trying to blow you away to get their hands on your 'loot'.
Thus you should only be flying in places and with cargo you know you are equipped to protect. The more valuable your haul, the bigger target you become. If you're taking 5t of water, or trash, or maybe even medical supplies (geneva convention and all that) you are probably not worth fighting and can slip through easily.
Likewise if you are apparently well armed and shielded, you will get attention, but people may opt out of attacking you, especially if your reputation (mostly harmless, etc) precedes you.
You make your own destiny.
In a space-faring universe there are going to be every sort from rookie traders to battle hardened military pilots; there are going to be really sucky pirates and really sly pirates who are good at flying and fighting.
You could be attacked or confronted by anything, anytime. The game shouldn't assign an encounter that it knows you have a fair chance of beating, it should assign an encounter based on where you are and what you're doing.
If you're a rookie, and you choose to fly 300t of expensive luxury goods to an anarchic world, you get what you deserve - which is probably every scumbag in the area trying to blow you away to get their hands on your 'loot'.
Thus you should only be flying in places and with cargo you know you are equipped to protect. The more valuable your haul, the bigger target you become. If you're taking 5t of water, or trash, or maybe even medical supplies (geneva convention and all that) you are probably not worth fighting and can slip through easily.
Likewise if you are apparently well armed and shielded, you will get attention, but people may opt out of attacking you, especially if your reputation (mostly harmless, etc) precedes you.
You make your own destiny.
Michael Brookes
Game Director
Kipper said:
I have to admit that I don't like that aspect of Oblivion either, although I do take mbrookes point about Morrowind. Wouldn't it be better if even when you were the best you could be there were still places that you could go where you'd encounter creatures/aliens/pirates/whatever that'd still be seriously challenging to kill? Of course then you'd still have to put up with all the annoying "small" enemies everywhere else (e.g. how annoying were cliff racers in Morrowind?). I still think for the Elite series that enemies should NOT be generated based on YOUR abilities/ratings/etc but on your location/cargo/shields/weapons etc.
As to the Thargoids - play.com has Elite IV on preorder with a made up release date and it called the game "The Next Encounter". Presumably that means the next encounter with the Thargoids, taking up the story where FFE left off? Or maybe play.com just made up the title as well as the release date...?
Michael Brookes
Game Director
I think you could balance the 2 concepts quite easily, maybe using reputation as a balancing element. So lower level opponents might keep away from you if you had a reputation as a dangerous opponent. Where higher level opponents might even seek out to challange you if you for that reason.
My opinion is that it needs to remain a challenge even if you have reached Elite status.
As for Play - I'd take their listing with a huge pinch of salt
Michael
My opinion is that it needs to remain a challenge even if you have reached Elite status.
As for Play - I'd take their listing with a huge pinch of salt
Michael
mbrookes said:
That works for me. As long as the game doesnt throw in a 100% beatable encounter, so that it occasionally makes you work for it and have to pay that repair bill later. Likewise you might get attacked by idiots/people with something to prove which might lead to encounters that are one-sided in your favour, some people might attack reputable people in order to try and gain reputation or status themselves (or die trying).
Aside from that going back to my point about it depending where you are and what you're flying and carrying... a lot of attacks might be based on the risk/reward ratio of getting their hands on your cargo. After all, I can't see people just attacking others for 'fun'. Too dangerous.
No to Thargoids with a reason
In Elite I did not mind the Thargoids, they got the heart pumping but when the next game came out I find that the physics changed and I found it almost impossible to space fight.
Assuming Elite IV will have the realistic physics I think it'll be too hard to fight the Thargoids.
In Elite I did not mind the Thargoids, they got the heart pumping but when the next game came out I find that the physics changed and I found it almost impossible to space fight.
Assuming Elite IV will have the realistic physics I think it'll be too hard to fight the Thargoids.
I am always in favour of having a wide range of opponents for ultra easy to ultra hard for the player to encounter throughout the game as long as there is the option of fight or flight. More difficult enemies give the player something to aim for and also a means by which they can assess their progress. When I first started playing elite I used to try and avoid ships such as the wolf and of course thargoids but as my skill level and weaponary improved I actively sought out these ships in order to improve my ranking as quickly as possible.
I'm not lucky enough to have enocountered the thargoids as often as I would have liked. Whn playing Elite (1st one) I was always able o get rid of them very quickly and be able to jump back to 2normal" space.
I would like to see them in the next version but my enjoyment of the game will not be dependent on their appearance.
I would like to see them in the next version but my enjoyment of the game will not be dependent on their appearance.
I agree that Thargoids should make a re-appearance, but in a considerably updated design. The same hexagonal design with updated textures won't float.
Thargoids were never meant to be uber difficult and with a properly equipped ship they were easy enough to take care of. The idea of the Targoid (IMO) was to provide a 'bad guy', something other than the classic pirate, something so alien that the mere idea of them strikes fear into the space pilots’ heart!
Thargoids were never meant to be uber difficult and with a properly equipped ship they were easy enough to take care of. The idea of the Targoid (IMO) was to provide a 'bad guy', something other than the classic pirate, something so alien that the mere idea of them strikes fear into the space pilots’ heart!
- a thargoid homeworld would be very cool. I have mental imagry that is a cross between Babylon 5s Z'Ha'Dum and the MDK world and the Thargoids being alot like the B5 Shadows themselves. (side thought - they do bear quite the passing resemblence to the Thargoid concept...)
Steve O B Have said:
I thought in FFE, if you followed one of the handcoded missions to completion you ended up in the Thargoid homeworld. Anyone remember?