That Whole Smoke - Fire Thing

[kpmop]

Personally, I really like the new exploration mechanics with the FSS and yet I was originally not happy when Frontier announced what they were planning for exploration in Chapter 4. Once I actually tried the new FSS, after getting used to how it worked, I thought the FSS was an improvement.

However, I do recognise that some do not like the new mechanics and would prefer the old method of exploration and I am willing to compromise by saying I don't mind if Frontier include the old mechanics as an option, but with a caveat.

If Frontier bring back the old mechanics as an option I personally think it's important that one can only choose the old method or the new method (per ship) but not have both available.

To be able to use both the old and new mechanics at the same time is just too OP as one could quickly scan the good objects in just a couple of minutes before moving on to the next system.

You can see this OP method of exploration in operation now by doing the following:

1. Jump to a system in the bubble you haven't personally explored.
2. Honk.
3. Look at the system map and select (i.e. target) a good object (for the purpose of the demo it could be anything).
4. Move your ship so you are pointing directly at that object.
5. Bring up the FSS and as you are pointing directly at it, you can zoom in and perform the scan.
6. Repeat steps 3 to 5 as needed.

So, as you can see if Frontier were to bring back (in full) the old method the different mechanics would have to be exclusive to each other.

After playing with the FSS for a while, I think all FD would need to do is put the original ADS functionality back - i.e. perform the honk, add all the bodies to the nav panel list and even update the system map.
I was initially against the system map being insta-revealed as I thought it'd make it too easy, but the FSS tells you what planet types are present instantly too on the radio thing - it's easy to see if there's an ELW or whatever present. Using the FSS to scan everything is far far quicker than flying out to "manually" scan each planet so that would be the trade off: speed and groovy fixed-point-orrery FSS view versus system map pictures and lots of tedious straight line flight.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Seriously why are people banging on and on that the FSS is not hard, of course it's not hard, it's easy. The people are not complaining because it's hard but because they just DON'T like it. There's also a small group of people (me included) who are getting motion sickness effects from it.

Now before one of the zealots slag me off for being thick and not understanding the FSS.... I personally LIKE it, I just sympathise with the those that don't and can't see why a compromise can't be reached. Some people need to get off their high horses.

 

[shadragon]

With 10,560 hours in, and been around since June of 2016, I'd reason you can see where a vast amount of my gaming hours have gone.

And I disagree as well.
<snip>
Give it time to mature. That applies to posters as well.

Disagreement is the core of a good discussion.

I bought E: D in January of 2015, so I've given it a lot of time to mature. I doubt I have 10K hours, but I'm near enough to it. Each release of the game just takes away from my enjoyment of it.

As one example, NMS released as a steaming pile initially. They've since fixed it to the point where it isn't a bad game anymore and only in about a year. The changes needed for E: D are possible and relatively easy to make, but I'm not seeing any drive to make them, or coordination of releases that makes sense overall. Complete a 200K assassination mission only to lose 900K when you swap out an engineered part after the fact? However, if you visit an Interstellar factions and pay the fines off, you're an upstanding citizen again and there's no long term impact in your play or game!? That's just silly and unrealistic. There are no long term consequences and the game continually smacks you down hard for being a pirate or black market customer. That isn't balance. That's not 'playing your way'.

Anyway. That's my opinion. If you want more detail I've posted many threads over the years. Cheers all. Happy New Year.

 

[Burke]

As one example, NMS released as a steaming pile initially. They've since fixed it to the point where it isn't a bad game anymore and only in about a year.

Without a doubt they have released alot of content. And when you play the game its great, it makes you want to play more. Right up until you fly the ship and realise how bad those controls are. I went to NMS looking for an alternative to this game and i didnt find it. If you want the survival explorer gameplay then subnautica runs rings around NMS but has little replay value once you know the story. Infact playing the game blind and not looking stuff up is pretty much a requirement. I played both games on perma death hardcore. I refunded NMS.

 

[Zalacious]

Panning about on the joystick axis, zoom and tuning on the hat. Simples.

After my last session, I realized I might need to remap a few keys. Will give your suggestion a whirl. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Stigbob]

After my last session, I realized I might need to remap a few keys. Will give your suggestion a whirl. Thanks for the tip.

Primary trigger honk, secondary target this FSS entirely one handed.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Disagreement is the core of a good discussion.

I bought E: D in January of 2015, so I've given it a lot of time to mature. I doubt I have 10K hours, but I'm near enough to it. Each release of the game just takes away from my enjoyment of it.

As one example, NMS released as a steaming pile initially. They've since fixed it to the point where it isn't a bad game anymore and only in about a year. The changes needed for E: D are possible and relatively easy to make, but I'm not seeing any drive to make them, or coordination of releases that makes sense overall. Complete a 200K assassination mission only to lose 900K when you swap out an engineered part after the fact? However, if you visit an Interstellar factions and pay the fines off, you're an upstanding citizen again and there's no long term impact in your play or game!? That's just silly and unrealistic. There are no long term consequences and the game continually smacks you down hard for being a pirate or black market customer. That isn't balance. That's not 'playing your way'.

Anyway. That's my opinion. If you want more detail I've posted many threads over the years. Cheers all. Happy New Year.

I thought NMS was inspirational at inception and release. How many other games out there could claim not only such expanses of real estate, but the procedural generation that ensures no matter how many times you play it's never exactly the same? Was it perfect? No. There was room for improvement, and improvement was made and at an amazing pace for a team that could work in my basement.

Elite has been around longer, has a vastly larger team, and has delivered a vastly different kind of product. Likewise, it's not perfect, and it has been improving. Where I see the key difference is in the implementation of those improvements. I don't disagree that paying off one's fines at an IF shouldn't wipe your slate - I've made the same argument, citing Casey Anthony. She had her day in court, she beat the rap, and remains one of the most reviled persons on the planet.

Sure, IF can, and I'd even say SHOULD clear your criminal record, but your REPUTATION should persist. So, you murdered 100 innocent freighters? You're Galactic #1, even though you don't have any outstanding fines. Stations shouldn't be going "It's good to see you again.", instead you should be greeted with "Don't cause any trouble while you're here."

Time and effort should be the only thing that repairs reputation. Stay crime-free long enough, get back to a neutral reputation. Put in time performing humanitarian works, and it can improve. Then the stations might be glad to see you again. And come it hot and wanted? Sure anonymous access might work, but it shouldn't be 100%. There should be that chance that they see through those black horn-rimmed glassed, fake nose and mustache and instead of "Welcome Commander" you get "That's not going to work here. Clear the no-fire zone or we will open fire."

I find the entire "hot ship" and "hot module" concept utterly absurd. Ships don't commit crimes. Commanders do. I go out drinking, get drunk, run down a bunch of little kids in the park, they don't arrest my car, they arrest me. My car didn't do anything, it's just a car. Likewise, my ship didn't blow up all those newbies, I was the one pulling the trigger.

BUT...

The changes to the criminal system are an improvement over "Oops, I shot a cop. Now I have to go stand in the corner for 9 minutes."

Yes, if you hire on as a criminal hit-man for 200k, 900k in fines isn't out of line. However, this is one of those shortcomings - there should absolutely be a criminal network, not just a black market to sell your ill-gotten gains, but entire networks and syndicates that welcome your criminal activities, provide safe havens for such scum and villany, that turn blind eyes to your rap sheet, and instead hail it as a badge of honor.

Will we get there? We might. Are we there yet? No. Are we on the right path? I'd certainly like to think so.

At least that's how I like to think about it. I don't delude myself though - it's equally possible we'll never get to those places, and this might be as good as it gets. Hope for the best, expect the worst, and never be disappointed.

 

[Yure]

There's also a small group of people (me included) who are getting motion sickness effects from it.

See now there is a legitimate complaint. Though I would question how you get by through the rest of the game, but it's an actual cause for concern.

But yeah, bring back old honk as a module and player could choose system they want. Of course old module would have old payouts too. You know to keep it legitimate to old way.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Has anyone actually "counted" the threads, or is "50" about to become yet another Forum meme?

If folk want to use the number of posts then I'd say '50 complaints' is pretty low and indicative of most people liking and enjoying the mechanic, not the reverse.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

But yeah, bring back old honk as a module and player could choose system they want. Of course old module would have old payouts too. You know to keep it legitimate to old way.

Sounds good to me. I got Exploration Elite before the last payout buff and I haven't cared about credits since.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

If folk want to use the number of posts then I'd say '50 complaints' is pretty low and indicative of most people liking and enjoying the mechanic, not the reverse.

I'm sure they are, but given that they'd continue to enjoy the FSS just as much if there qas an optional ADS-style module available, their opinion isn't really relevant to the discussion.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
But yeah, bring back old honk as a module and player could choose system they want. Of course old module would have old payouts too. You know to keep it legitimate to old way.

And please only the old information giving us a reason to actually fly to the objects. Not the "god mode reveal everything no flying required and get every type of object insta reveal"-FSS .

 

[Sylveria]

It looks like Frontier only has three floors.

"Not counting the mezzanine."